172 pointsby pilingual8 hours ago9 comments
  • SoftTalker8 hours ago
    Nice to see some pushback in the most egregious abuses of privacy. I wonder why we are getting this with Flock but not seeing the same with private security cameras such as Ring, pervasive tracking of mobile devices by carriers and apps, and internet browser tracking. Is it just that there's a direct personal benefit with those devices, and people view the trade-off as being worth it?
    • malwrar7 hours ago
      I don’t think people realize that these devices can even be used that way. I talk with people outside of the tech scene frequently, and they are routinely surprised when I tell them about this sort of capability. The ring doorbell Super Bowl commercial about finding lost dogs was a genuine shock to people! I think there’s a degree of visibility you need to get people’s attention on an issue, and it’s just difficult to see a doorbell as a threat for the average person.
    • cryo324 hours ago
      Ring is dead near me. Everyone had Ring doorbells until someone went around with a hammer and fucked them all up.
      • EdwardDiego2 hours ago
        Honey, did you order a ski mask and a hammer because someone is delivering them now according to the cam... nevermind.
      • smcg3 hours ago
        Surely one of the cameras saw who it was...?
      • sieabahlpark44 minutes ago
        [dead]
    • rigrassm7 hours ago
      > Is it just that there's a direct personal benefit with those devices, and people view the trade-off as being worth it?

      I think that's mostly it. Basically since Flocks only use is for the systematic tracking of people for use by police and government agencies, it's a lot easier to get people to turn against it. There's just no upside to them that any individual would ever benefit from.

      It's sad because if/when Flock dies the death of deserves, the software/infrastructure will likely just get sold off and reapplied to some other deployment scheme like Ring quietly forgoing the big Superbowl Ad.

    • treebeard901an hour ago
      Dont forget about Waymo and similar. As much surveillance as flock.
    • iugtmkbdfil8347 hours ago
      I so want to push back that all this is too little too late, because the system ,though still distributed , is effectively in place already. But.. I also don't want to be the old guy telling kids not to rebel. After all, being young and thinking ( knowing! ) one can change the world, is what being young human is all about. FWIW, it may well be their version of decss, ows and so on.

      On the other hand, come to think of it, despite OWS being broken up by fancy new approaches ( rumor has it, Walls Street got spooked enough to see what effective methods can be employed given that Pinkerton approach would have been frowned upon then ), I don't recall FBI marking the participants in any special way ( please correct me if I am missting anything ).

      • toomuchtodo6 hours ago
        With a nationwide effort in swing to dismantle corporate surveillance, the follow up is to pass legislation state by state that prohibits its implementation in the future. Federal legislation on this matter is unlikely to occur until sometime after midterms, and so state legislation is the path to success in the interim.
        • mothballed6 hours ago
          We voted out the cameras locally, the feds just installed them at every nook and cranny they had available. Turned out, there was a lot of federal property, so it was back to square one.
          • toomuchtodo6 hours ago
            Regime change is coming, its harm reduction until then.
            • Octoth0rpean hour ago
              There are a host of issues that the dems are better on (assuming one agrees on what better means), but I don't think they're particularly better on this issue. One can point to pro-privacy outliers on both sides, but we're not likely to get one of them as the final candidate in 2028.
              • toomuchtodoan hour ago
                A Democrat has won almost every election since the presidential election [1] [2]. It is a referendum on this administration imho, and based on all available data and evidence, I expect it to continue.

                [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46990619 (citations)

                [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46864405 (citations)

                I expect Dems to be better on privacy in this context ("We don't need ALPRs because privacy is more important than faux threats conjured up to sell corporate surveillance to the masses for institutional shareholder returns") because you're more likely to be fear driven as a Republican/conservative (and therefore, support invasion of privacy via ALPRs despite facts and statistics around the risk) due to a larger amygdala (where fear processing takes place) [3] and amygdala–BNST connectivity [4], but of course some Dems will disappoint on this policy topic. You might even be able to suss out confidence in policy implementation using photos of candidates [5], which can predict political orientation (and therefore, brain structure).

                [3] Kanai R, Feilden T, Firth C ... Political Orientations Are Correlated with Brain Structure in Young Adults Current Biology, 2011; 21, 677-680 https://doi.org/10.1016/j.cub.2011.03.017

                [4] Pedersen WS, Muftuler LT, Larson CL. Conservatism and the neural circuitry of threat: economic conservatism predicts greater amygdala-BNST connectivity during periods of threat vs safety. Soc Cogn Affect Neurosci. 2018 Jan 1;13(1):43-51. doi: https://doi.org/10.1093/scan/nsx133. PMID: 29126127; PMCID: PMC5793824.

                [5] Kosinski, M., Khambatta, P., & Wang, Y. (2024). Facial recognition technology and human raters can predict political orientation from images of expressionless faces even when controlling for demographics and self-presentation. American Psychologist, 79(7), 942–955. https://doi.org/10.1037/amp0001295

            • tartoran4 hours ago
              Are you sure about that? Seems pretty shameless and determined to bend all the rules to stay in power, I surely hope the change is coming though.
              • toomuchtodo4 hours ago
                Dem advantage heading into midterms is highest in 20 years [1]. I am hopeful if democracy is directly attacked during the upcoming election cycle, the attempt will be contained, but agree it remains to be seen and you should have an exit plan if democracy fails.

                Mental model: I am sure of nothing. All models are wrong, but some are useful. Better to have a plan and not need it than need it and not have it. Hope alone is not a strategy.

                [1] https://emersoncollegepolling.com/april-2026-national-poll/

    • Brian_K_Whitean hour ago
      Bugs me no end that my latest upstairs neighbor (I've been here for 15 years) has a ring on their door which means I have to be in front of it every time I go in & out my own door.

      It doesn't matter how thoughtful you are, someone else will be thoughtless for you.

    • PunchyHamster3 hours ago
      There is some push on that too but Flock is sponsored by people's taxes, while ring is someone's personal choice.
    • nenadg7 hours ago
      >the most egregious abuses of privacy

      wait until you hear about EU's EES

      • riffraff6 hours ago
        do you really believe your biometrics being checked once when you enter a continent as a foreigner is the same as being videotaped at every moment in your own country as a citizen?
  • amazingamazing6 hours ago
    Flock could easily get around this by paying people to put them on their own property. Then what?

    Put energy into legislation. Ring and Nest already do the same thing.

    https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2022/07/ring-reveals-they-give...

  • alkonaut6 hours ago
    How is this data storage even legal? I mean having cameras out that will sound an alarm if one of N specific wanted cars pass by is one thing. But do these cars just store stuff for later use and abuse? Who approved that?
    • SOLAR_FIELDS6 hours ago
      They aren’t and no one legitimately did. This is extrajudicial surveillance state stuff
    • clear-octopus5 hours ago
      [dead]
  • gentile5 hours ago
    The 100k figure is an overestimate by a few percent. The OpenStreetMap data for ALPRs is pretty good, but there is some duplication. I (recently) programmatically identified ~2.5k such instances. https://pickpj.github.io/Mapping/FIock/similar.html It has openstreetmap links attached for those who want to help fix the data.
  • mixmastamyk5 hours ago
    Nice work all. But am quite unhappy with their new map. Doesn’t work with my hardened machine with webgl off or my old phone. For some obscure reason, the button to try the “legacy” map (from last month) does not come up most of the time. So several times recently the site has been inaccessible to me.
  • curiousgal7 hours ago
    It's ironic seeing this here since Flock is YCombinator company.
    • Refreeze52246 hours ago
      Surveillance and privacy invasion is profitable, so not ironic at all.
    • iugtmkbdfil8347 hours ago
      I dunno if it is ironic. Most of us recognize that technology itself is a tool. It can be used in any number of ways including ones in which some portions of the population may disagree with.
      • curiousgal7 hours ago
        I don't know about that, nothing about their pitch indicated anything but what their technology is currently used for.
        • iugtmkbdfil8347 hours ago
          I will give you a weird, but current, example. TSLA ( and virtually all companies that center on Musk as its director -- in the original sense of the word before HR title inflation took it down ) may say one thing about what the plan for the tech is, but, even occasional review of their positioning shows that the "what their technology is currently used for" is in near constant flux. Honestly, the fact that his investors keep rewarding it is beyond me.
  • SilverElfin7 hours ago
    Speed cameras next. They’re just revenue generators and part of a safetyism Trojan horse for surveillance.
    • rahimnathwanian hour ago
      Speed cameras save lives. It's best when they're paired with:

      - good publicity (drivers know that speed cameras exist)

      - density (high chance of passing a speed camera)

      - enforcement of penalties (if fines can be ignored then they lose their deterrent effect)

      - portable (so you don't know where they are ahead of time)

    • derwiki3 hours ago
      They definitely slowed drivers down in San Francisco: data was released proving it.
      • metasyn3 hours ago
        Source? My understanding is that speeding cameras and flock cameras are different in the SF application at least.
        • derwiki2 hours ago
          My response was about speed cameras not flick cameras. They added them on Chavez, Ocean, and a few other places.
  • convolvatron8 hours ago
    this is great. I mean I'm all for the argument in the abstract. my commute is 2.5 miles one way, and I get tagged 20 times in each direction. that kind of brings it home.
    • 6 hours ago
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  • kumarski7 hours ago
    The senior director of connectivity there is former IDF.

    Probably nothing.

    • snovv_crash6 hours ago
      Since military service is mandatory in Israel, it means that basically any Israeli (with the exception of Hasidic Jews), male or female, is, not by choice, ex-IDF. It isn't a signal of their choices, or willing participation, just of where they were born.

      If you don't know this, now you do. If you knew this already...

      • HDBaseTan hour ago
        It is their choice.

        If they had any spine they'd kill themselves, instead they comply and engage with the IDF and its war crimes.

        If anything, this should mean to avoid corruption and engaging with war criminals, we should bar all Israelis from US roles.

        Same should apply to any ex-Russian military, any foreign ex-intelligence too. This isn't a harsh take.

      • kumarski5 hours ago
        That's not my problem. Why wasn't he fired after the vulnerability was revealed? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vU1-uiUlHTo

        Does IDF service mean their position is immune to valid criticism of the job?

        How do we know as Americans that it's secure when the individual who is senior and leading connectivity has likely served a foreign intelligence agency/millitary?

        Is this not alarming as videos weren't encrypted and public?

      • throwawa14 hours ago
        Seems like a good reason to not hire Israelis. Maligned unamerican interests shouldn't sit in the top ranks of surveillance tech.
    • Supermancho7 hours ago
      Most of the leadership is from Georgia Tech. Who are you talking about?

      I have been corrected: Eyal H. is the Senior Director of Connectivity at Flock Safety

      Login to: https://theorg.com/org/flock-safety/offices/hq , if you dare.