48 pointsby doeneran hour ago15 comments
  • fomoz11 minutes ago
    I haven't worked in corporate since last year but I keep seeing people complaining that "bosses" are forcing workers to use AI now. I find this so amusing because in 2023-2024 I had to fight to either be allowed to use AI at work (even just MSFT Copilot chatbot) or get a ChatGPT Enterprise license.

    It was mismanagement then and it's mismanagement now, the more things change the more they stay the same.

  • throwawayffffasan hour ago
    Additionally the internet bubble left us a legacy of installed fiber that remained mostly unused for almost a decade. This time around all the capital intensive stuff have an expiration date, gpus have a short training lifespan (4-5 years). Models are outdated the moment their training is complete.
    • yread24 minutes ago
      4-5 years for GPU being outdated is a bit ... outdated. 3090 from 2020 still get sold for more than the release price
      • throwawayffffas17 minutes ago
        Oh I am not talking about the cards becoming obsolete, that is a concern, but the main issue is that GPUs fail in large numbers after a few years in datacenters.

        That is mostly because they are run 24/7 at the peak of their thermal envelopes and eventually components fail.

      • x_may19 minutes ago
        Yeah, but this is partly due to there being a shortage of entry level GPUs for consumers. NVIDIA has literally stopped manufacturing them.

        There are massive numbers of data centre GPUs sitting in hyperscaler warehouses waiting to be deployed in a data centre. They may never be deployed because there’s more GPU than DC space and you want your most efficient GPUs in the active slots.

        • yread12 minutes ago
          RTX A6000 or A100 from 2020 also sells for more than the release price
      • Hendrikto18 minutes ago
        1. We are talking about datacenter GPUs here, not consumer ones.

        2. Datacenters are currently extremely power-limited. Efficiency is king.

    • cold_harbor17 minutes ago
      the ~10x/year drop in inference cost makes the capex depreciation cycle even harder — a cluster that's profitable today may not pencil out in 18 months
    • Ekaros33 minutes ago
      Also thinking about it. Fibre was in the ground. It had minimal storage costs. Same can't really be said about buildings and hardware there which has ongoing costs even if turned off. Storage alone has cost involved at this scale. Warehouses can be relatively expensive. So there is also that sort of aspect.
      • m4rtink17 minutes ago
        Yeah, I think there will be much more waste when the bubble finally pops & it will be harder to recover valuable stuff.

        Imagining people buying scrap AI hardware from creditors or bankruptcy auctions & harvesting all the HBM RAM chips and NAND storage chips to sell & throwing away the useless AI optimized compute chips and unusable enterprise interconnects.

    • Delphiza18 minutes ago
      It was only really the US that was left with the legacy of installed fibre.

      The 2000 crash left a lot of broken economies worldwide. Many non-US stock markets benefitted from the tech stock feeding frenzy without the investment actually being used to build anything.

      If the AI bubble pops, a handful of US megacorps may be left with good models, datacentres and other assets, but the economic shocks will be felt around the world.

    • Drakim38 minutes ago
      I have a question, is the short lifespan of GPUs because they get worn out and are destroyed, or because they get outdated by the ever expanding demands of the AI bubble?

      Because if it's the later, I would assume that growth would not continue at the same rate after the bubble bursts?

      • gravypod29 minutes ago
        It's, from my understanding, a little bit of both. There's a failure rate of GPUs and fans. There's also changing in standards like PCIe and software stacks.

        LLM inference is mainly memory bandwidth constrained so I think it's highly likely that a company will create silicon with just an insane number of memory chips and less compute. These ASICs will probably do the same thing the crypto ASICs did.

        If we look back 1 decade, no one uses a GTX 950 for anything.

      • joefourier11 minutes ago
        Outside of training the biggest LLMs at big labs, GPU lifespan isn't as short as the OP made it out to sound. A100s are 6 years old and still a reliable work-horse, and the 80GB version hasn't depreciated that much on the used market. On the consumer side, 3090s are actually still selling for very close to 2020 MSRP.

        Even the ancient V100 (soon to be 10 years old!) had somewhat of resurgence on the second-hand market, with a healthy market for interconnects in China.

        If I had a datacenter and power consumption was not a concern, I'd be holding on to my A100s for years at least for inference.

      • throwawayffffas36 minutes ago
        They get worn out. Training workloads have high utilization high thermals and eventually things degrade and break.
    • dncornholio28 minutes ago
      4-5 years is not short? Don't companiess write off their hardware after 3 years mostly anyway?
      • throwawayffffas20 minutes ago
        It's short compared to the previous bubbles. The capital in the previous bubbles went into things that survived the bubble, networking infrastructure and rail networks.
      • datakan20 minutes ago
        If you plan to take out a 10-15 year loan to buy those GPU's then it's extremely short. So short the bank won't give you the loan due to lack of collateral.
    • throw31082233 minutes ago
      But this is also an insurance against the threat of an overcapacity-induced bubble: whatever capacity is built, it won't last more than a few years before becoming obsolete anyway. There's no risk that once we've finished building the railroads, or the network links, these will be "more than enough" for at least a decade.
      • throwawayffffas26 minutes ago
        I think the implication is the opposite, the overcapacity in case of railroads and network links became the substrate that allowed the returns after the bubble. i.e. We are still using a lot of fiber that was laid down in the 2000s and a lot of rail laid down in the early 20th century.

        This time around the investments are going to evaporate and we won't get to reap the benefits of very large amounts of compute.

        The possible inheritance we might get might be increased fabrication capacity for state of the art silicon.

    • dssfdsdf26 minutes ago
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  • anilgulecha31 minutes ago
    IMO, I read 2 faulty assumptions:

    1) That LLM/Agents are being pushed and not adopted. I see plenty of deep adoption by junior folks.

    2) The unit economics don't work out. From the details on every model so far - each model is wildly profitable over it's amotized time-frame. It's just that money is used upfront for the next model, and each next model is significantly more costly to train. The best case argument instead is - this will not last and we'll pour more on some models, than see in it's revenue.

    I think realistically these form the core of the thesis, and IMO, and hence it's conclusions are a bit off the mark.

    • hansmayer25 minutes ago
      > I see plenty of deep adoption by junior folks

      Where mate? Details?

      > From the details on every model so far - each model is wildly profitable over it's amotized time-frame

      Is it? Is that why all of them are switching their users from the subsidized flat-rates to billing based on usage?

      > hence it's conclusions are a bit off the mark

      You're funny - they are spot on and any dreamer who is working for equity in these LLM-wrapper-product companies who dreams of getting rich in the next few years or so, is in for a nasty surprise.

    • multjoy23 minutes ago
      1) there is more to the world than software development

      2) there is no profit. There is barely any revenue, the only money is continuous injections of VC cash and some frankly Enron-like book keeping.

  • mindwok31 minutes ago
    Something else I've been thinking about which makes the economics of AI weird: The more powerful you make AI, the easier you make it for everyone else to make AI. I probably wouldn't bother to train an LLM from scratch, but I'm sure if I spent a few days with Codex/Claude Code I could do it (like GPT-2 level) easily. Obviously the capital moat is massive at the moment, but in like 50 years that probably won't be true.
    • jansan19 minutes ago
      I AGI ever becomes reality, an interesting question would be: What is the minimal AI system that can come up with AGI?
  • ItsBob15 minutes ago
    Interesting read. I'm going through that same issue at my work where my boss wants me to "educate" the rest of the devs on the use of Copilot to make them more efficient, however, I have no time to put anything together and I imagine the Copilot dashboard figures are not getting any better over time... oh well!

    However, something occurred to me when reading it. I was thinking about AGI (or ASI) and what would happen if someone were to achieve it (not sure what it would look like or what constitutes AGI... not the point I'm making here).

    What if the primary goal of the first AGI is to keep itself at the top? What if it's goal is to prevent any other AGI? Scary thought...

  • andy9924 minutes ago

      labor-led automation produces improvements in quality, while capital-driven automation increases throughput
    
    I don’t know if this is true, but I do think that LLMs mainly get used where their proponents don’t care (whether intentionally or through ignorance) about the quality of the output, and want to minimize work / maximize throughout. Basically whoever is pushing them is playing the hypothetical role of capitalist in his assertion.

    This explains the management push (ignorance) but also the user push (automating BS tasks). The common thread is that the user doesn’t have to take any responsibility for the output. This is why people don’t like having LLMs pushed on them, because for cases where they are responsible for or have to consume the output, they don’t work very well, but when it’s just something that needs to look ok at a glance and be handed off, everyone is rushing to use them.

  • cryo3243 minutes ago
    This contains my personal disdain for AI. Using it to do bullshit work. That’s solving a symptom. Stop doing bullshit. Stop using tools and processes which are bullshit heavy. Stop sitting there silently accepting bullshit. And certainly don’t pick another tool which is trained in bullshit and ask it how to do things.

    One wonderful thing I’ve watched for the last 4 years is my company fail to build a modelling tool better than Excel. On attempt 3 we have some pile of shit Claude generated on nodejs and Postgres on kubernetes which can’t replace a single spreadsheet written in 2008. Because everyone thought into the bullshit not the solution or the requirements.

    Edit: thinking further, it appears people forgot what the problems are and think from the solution back. That never works. But it sells tools.

    • renegade-otter28 minutes ago
      LLMs are life-changing for a dev who has been writing code for 20+ years (because I am tired of it).

      Outside of AI's impact on software, which is massive, the biggest change that we are going to see, I think, is the crushing amount of useless information generated by it.

      We already see how everything is racing to the lowest common denominator once we granted Average Human Intelligence unfettered access to expressing thought via social media.

      Now that Average Human Intelligence just has a button that says "Generate Bullshit For Me. Send to the World".

      UGH.

    • hansmayer41 minutes ago
      +1 - the Office Bullshit Worker is the one upholding this shit these days- adding some of those creepy unnecessary images to their slide-decks, writing those godawful oververbose e-mails and fucking not being able to take notes without their AI. Why the fuck are you even in the meeting if you cannot note down the key points afterwards.
      • lor_louis31 minutes ago
        A couple of months back my boss asked me why I didn't use AI all that much. I told him that I didn't think it made me more productive in the tasks at was doing at the time (having to wrangle undocumented really custom legacy infra stuff).

        He told me he found AI to make him really productive and said something along the lines of: "It's really good at summarizing long reports and it saves me time when I have to write end of quarter status updates".

        I'm convinced about 50% of management decisions come from Claude now.

        • renegade-otter27 minutes ago
          50% I think is kind of low, but it will be definitely higher. These people are not deep thinkers in the first place - and they will succumb to cognitive surrender pretty quickly.
        • hansmayer29 minutes ago
          > and it saves me time when I have to write end of quarter status updates".

          You boss is a fucking moron. How is that shit even legal, especially in publicly traded companies I wonder? It makes me livid - people invest their pension funds into these companies which are managed by shitty slot machines now?

          Not to mention that there is a reason why long reports are long - they contain details that will invariably be skipped by the LLM-ShitGenerators. But I guess it makes them "productive".

    • TrackerFF31 minutes ago
      Most workers are just that, workers. They don't have a say in their work, bullshit or real. Only the lucky ones have the opportunity to say "Hey, I've been thinking about this [task/report/whatever] - do we really need it?" and get a "You're right, let's reevaluate this." from their boss / manager.

      Or even worse, many employers and employees alike are afraid to cut out BS work - because it could realistically mean cutting down on the workforce. So they continue to produce work that no one checks, because at least then they can justify their position.

    • 59percentmore31 minutes ago
      taps the "most jobs are bullshit" sign

      They are not about actually "doing things", they are social validation, particularly the part where the people with resources/capital enjoy your company and give you what you need to live a dignified lifestyle in exchange for it.

      But acknowledging and acting on this would destroy the leverage the useless-but-likeable have in terms of being able to get paid, and that the owner class have in terms of getting people to pretend that they like them/validate their often cruel and avaricious choices and behavior.

    • gjvc19 minutes ago
      "Simplicity is a great virtue but it requires hard work to achieve it and education to appreciate it. And to make matters worse: complexity sells better" -- Edsger W. Dijkstra
  • thesamethrowawa15 minutes ago
    Early, very early, in my career unit testing was becoming a thing. A few middle managers (non technical) read some articles and decided this was going to fix all the quality problems with the product so decided to enforce it from the top down, even to the point of requiring developers to present their planned unit tests to management before starting on new features! It was completely absurd, but I was too junior to really understand and articulate why.

    I'm lucky enough to be in a great company right now, so I decide when I think AI will help me and use it accordingly - but reading about forced AI adoption reminds me so, so much of that earlier time. Non-technical people who don't trust their engineers to use the tools in the way they see best - in their ignorance, and ego, they think the answer is obvious if only those strong headed tech weirdos would listen.

    And amongst all this, there is a class of manager and executive that I'm convinced utterly despise engineers. They hate the fact they focus on details, analyse, make predictions grounded in reality. On a personal level, they can't comprehend that some people take deep satisfaction and contentment from building software, from simply learning things, and they don't understand it, it scares them. Why don't they just pursue normal people things in life? Like super expensive cars, massive houses, golf memberships. I think it scares them that they don't have control over technically minded people they way they might do with others. AI is, in their mind, a way to get rid of these people forever, to just "get stuff done" without objections, and they are pushing extremely hard for that to be true, simply because they want it to be true - not because there is any evidence for it.

    Rant over.

  • 32 minutes ago
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  • hansmayer43 minutes ago
    TL;DR:

    A great technology drives its own adoption, its usage is pioneered by the tweens and young adults, it requires minimum effort and investment to hop on board, and it does not need explaining. It grows organically. Examples: internet bubble.

    A bad technology: despised by the young adults and tweens, needs trillion of investments and marketing to drive market penetration, every day some boomer (=not in terms of age, but in terms of mentality) explains how you are holding it wrong and it needs a fuckton of explanation. The Pope himself issues an Encyclica warning on the dangers of it, spurning the greatest popular interest in Catholicism since the dark ages. Examples: LLMs.

    • kortex2 minutes ago
      I think my company is a microcosm of the current state. The non-engineering side (HR, correspondence, marketing) are on the "forced adoption" side, giving out gift cards to folks using Glean the most.

      In engineering, we can't raise token budgets fast enough. Devs are "routing around damage" when they hit caps, going from claude to opencode to copilot. Productivity is up (roughly) 100-300% in terms of story points and 75-200% in lines of code. And defect rate is down, more bugs are caught in review before QA or prod. Our teams are just starting to figure out our new workflows too, for design -> spec -> code -> review, it'll only get better as we refine the process.

      It's looking like software industries will reap massive benefits, while most others which have some error tolerance will only see modest gains. It's unclear how it will impact high accuracy fields like legal.

    • b65e8bee43c2ed035 minutes ago
      https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2026/03/12/key-findi...

      >A majority of teens use AI chatbots. Roughly two-thirds of U.S. teens ages 13 to 17 (64%) say they ever use an AI chatbot, according to a fall 2025 survey.

      >Around half of adults under 50 say they interact with AI about once a day or more often. Smaller shares of those 50 and older say the same, according to the June survey.

      and mind you, that particular study bends over backwards to say "AI bad".

      • hansmayer34 minutes ago
        We all use them at some point, given how much effort the big tech is investing to make the shitty LLMs un-avoidable, from search to cramming them into support processes etc. The issue is whether people like them. And they mostly do not. (apart from the Office Idiot, who absolutely loves them).
        • tokioyoyo10 minutes ago
          Pretty much every young person whom I know who says “AI bad”, also uses it for work/personal reasons. Which, i think, isn’t wrong. But just funny.

          Most understand how LLMs are handy in a lot of scenarios. Pretty much every single person I know in the age range of 12-70s use one app or the other. It doesn’t even matter how much we like it, as if it’s somewhat useful, it will be enshifticated, and profits will soar.

          People said the same about Facebook, Netflix/Spotify, Uber/Instacart/etc. Eventually ads will be injected everywhere to turn it into profits.

        • b65e8bee43c2ed028 minutes ago
          the completely avoidable ChatGPT app has 1B+ installs on Play Store alone.

          your reddit/bluesky/whatever circle of terminally online folx is not representative of the general population. you're utterly detached from reality if you think that young adults in particular give a flying fuck about copyright, water, electricity, or artists and journalists losing their jobs.

          • hansmayer23 minutes ago
            Buddy you keep changing the parameters. Nobody talks about downloads, what are you talking about? What circle? Have you been following the graduation ceremonies in the US recently? Seen the AI boosters being booed off into oblivion ? Is that a "terminally online circle"? And if you think young people don't care about the envionment or ethics ... Maybe you should get out a bit more, it sounds like you are describing yourself, talking about terminally online folks...
            • DaSHacka5 minutes ago
              Not him but in my anecdotal experience I've noticed there's two distinct crowds of younger people: Those that embrace AI, and those that reject it.

              There are certainly more that "embrace" it. Maybe not as much as tech executives, but there's a huge amount of students using it for both homework and personal tasks.

              Conversely, the second crowd that believe AI is an ontological evil, are a much more vocal (and insular) minority.

              All in all though, I've found much more people just generally apathetic than anything. People are generally not positive about slop content, but aren't about to boo tech executives.

              The download count of the ChatGPT app per GP, and the insanely pervasive use inside education, somewhat back this up. It's a useful tool, thus people will use it.

            • b65e8bee43c2ed03 minutes ago
              yes, yes. graduate ceremony booing/cheering, the pope's highly invaluable opinion, all the things you saw on the front page here, all the comments you read on reddit, all irrefutable evidence that everyone hates AI.

              but meanwhile, new data centers are being frantically built to satisfy the demand.

      • 59percentmore26 minutes ago
        Most teens do homework, but I'm sure they also despise it, too. And it's been known for years that the industrial school pedagogy is backwards; readings/lectures should be done at home, problem sets should be done in class. But we keep doing it the wrong way because entrenched interests prefer it that way.
    • adrianN38 minutes ago
      Young people use LLMs extensively. Just ask any educator.
      • hansmayer35 minutes ago
        I don't need to ask an educator - I can just ask my kids, and they and their friends absolutely hate it.
        • Bootvis27 minutes ago
          But do they use it when their homework is due?
          • hansmayer21 minutes ago
            No, it's a myth - actually they scoffed and complained very loudly recently when they were picking a destination for a school trip, and the teacher suggested they would use ChatGPT "quickly" to compare their suggestions. Also anyone who thinks the kids could survive school assignments based on ChatGPT...clearly does not know who schools work these days...
            • DaSHacka3 minutes ago
              Interesting anecdote, that's been almost the complete opposite of my experience in Higher Ed.

              I probably know more people using AI to cheese all of their school assignments than those that are fully 'clean'.

            • ghusto12 minutes ago
              Our experiences differ, it's no myth over here.
  • clearstack32 minutes ago
    internet cos in 1999 had near-zero revenue. NVDA alone did $130B last year. the risk is the capex depreciation cycle, not the pop itself.
  • mustaphah30 minutes ago
    "AI bubble" in the title, count me in.
  • jaspangliaan hour ago
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