170 pointsby jruohonen4 hours ago10 comments
  • pocksuppetan hour ago
    We should note these are not even slightly legitimate hosting companies, lest anyone worry too much about their non-KYC offshore servers. These aren't hosting companies that ask little, they are just directly front companies for Russian intelligence, owned by members of Russian intelligence, they don't do anything else, they don't provide hosting service to regular people even if you want it (I have tried).

    Unlike in Germany where I lost several social media accounts because my email service provider (pissmail) went to jail because someone signed up for his service and sent spam.

    • l23k418 minutes ago
      This is a straight up lie, you could just rent hosting from this company as a "regular person".

      The article literally has photos of their english-language customer-facing communications.

    • nalekberov33 minutes ago
      Any source to back up your claims? Otherwise it seemed pretty much a conspiracy theory to me.
      • consp23 minutes ago
        The company inherited all their customers and equipment from a sanctioned company (according to the Dutch news report). Should be enough for most people.
        • chatmasta9 minutes ago
          That just means the sanctioned company was selling to sanctioned entities, not that it was only selling to them.
  • efitz2 hours ago
    I’ve been on the defender side of security my whole career.

    I know in some markets crime pays more than legitimate work, but it never ceases to amaze me how much thought, effort, planning, and engineering goes into providing infrastructure IT services for cybercriminals. The people involved definitely have the skills to be profitable at legitimate work; it just puzzles me that they choose to support criminals.

    • Aurornis2 hours ago
      I watched the downfall and eventual jailing of someone who had a great job, career, and family after he started getting involved in cybercrime.

      As far as I can make sense of it, he enjoyed the thrill of feeling superior to others: Evading the law, exploiting people who viewed as stupid, and enriching himself in the process.

      He got caught through a mistake that was really dumb in retrospect. I think he believed his intellectual superiority combined with the stupidity of others so much that eventually he couldn’t imagine anyone catching him.

      • kspacewalk2an hour ago
        >As far as I can make sense of it, he enjoyed the thrill of feeling superior to others: Evading the law, exploiting people who viewed as stupid, and enriching himself in the process.

        I sadly see this pattern of thinking far more often than I want to in my fellow eastern Europeans.

        • kirubakaranan hour ago
          Let's not generalize, even if you feel like you can say that because you're a member of a group you're generalizing. It's unfair to most of the people in any group being generalized.
          • quantummagic30 minutes ago
            Stereotypes exist for a reason. It's exhausting having to address this concern trolling every single time they're mentioned. Nobody thinks everyone in the group conforms to the stereotype. And they certainly don't need your white knighting.
            • kirubakaran20 minutes ago
              It isn't "concern trolling" or "white knighting" to call out racism or bigotry, and expect some decency in the discussion. If it is "exhausting" for you to be propagating unfair stereotypes, perhaps stop your bad behavior?
              • hermannj3144 minutes ago
                I don't think a person saying Eastern European are observed doing something more than expected is inherently racist. It is a claim he either does or doesn't have evidence for.

                If he made the claim with insufficient evidence or made the claim in contradiction of the evidence, then it becomes racist, but I don't think making the observation and doing the calculation is the racist part. It is a simple chi-squared goodness-of-fit test.

      • KellyCriterion28 minutes ago
        sounds like Markus Braun & Jan Marsalek / Wirecard, the fraudsters :-D
      • cm201225 minutes ago
        Sounds like Breaking Bad
      • redsocksfan452 hours ago
        [dead]
    • sandeepkd10 minutes ago
      If we use one of the comments from here that it was done at the behest of some government then its more like the offensive team of a legitimate government. Pretty much every thing can be colored grey that way and one just needs to find people that they can persuade or convince for their cause.
    • davidwritesbugs39 minutes ago
      In a previous life I've employed contractors and software engineers to run a criminal website. Motivations for my guys were that it was well paid work that was technically challenging in order to evade enforcement agencies, and was 'fun' in that respect; they were "sticking it to than man (my service was regarded as moral by all my users & others); and there wasn't so much work about that they could pick and choose; lastly, I was a good employer because I had to be!!
    • parliament32an hour ago
      Imagine working for an organization where 1) cybersecurity is actually the #1 priority, ahead of "shareholder value" and all the other gobblygook, 2) you get to design systems where you actually have to assume that every other entity is malicious (not the usual carve-outs like "oh yeah we do zero trust.. but our entire management plane is Azure-managed it's unavoidable"), 3) your budget is effectively unlimited, and 4) you get paid several factors more than you would in private industry.
    • fancythat23 minutes ago
      Because they cannot be profitable. Job market is not the same on both ends. If you are east European and you try to get a job in an international corporation, the in all cases offer salaries adjusted for regional averages, unless you are willing to reallocate. Only few startups and FAANG like companies, often compensation in line what is received in the western world.

      And there is also a thrill of doing it, which other guys already mentioned.

    • r_lee2 hours ago
      > The people involved definitely have the skills to be profitable at legitimate work; it just puzzles me that they choose to support criminals.

      I don't think it's that easy to go legit. having a tech job nowadays is already a luxury

    • thewebguyd2 hours ago
      It's not easy to go legit, especially in today's job market, depending on where you live in the world also.

      The US is unique with its high salaries for tech work (on the lower end of those of high salaries is pure ops work like this though). If you're in a country where the average sysadmin salary is substantially lower (to pick on Eastern Europe for a minute, you're looking at the equivalent of ~$30-35k USD/year), it's not hard to see why its tempting to go the cybercrime route.

      • r_leean hour ago
        why is this downvoted?
        • KellyCriterion25 minutes ago
          ...because on HN, experiences which somehow contradict the perspective when salaries are highly varying across countries, esp. when someone decides to pick an explicit example, which, even if it shows the truth, is against the base-assumption of the reader of a comment.

          To put it somehow dimplomatic :-D

    • SoftTalker2 hours ago
      Some people are just born into it. Mafia families, etc. There were some very smart people in the American mob, running scams that were immensely profitable. Eventually they get caught though, and with the ease and pervasivness of electronic surveillance today, it's pretty much impossible to do it anymre at least if you're anywhere where the authorities care about it (edit to add: and aren't in on it).
    • amelius2 hours ago
      Cybersecurity is always last on the budget list. It is not easy to make money working in cybersecurity.

      The only upside here is that criminals will (through legislation) eventually force companies to invest more.

    • 2 hours ago
      undefined
    • dist-epoch2 hours ago
      You fail to take into account the ideological angle.

      Some people are ready to die for their beliefs. Others just to run businesses supporting their causes.

      3 of the 4 persons named have russian links (a large number of Moldovan citizens are ethnic russians).

      • spwa4an hour ago
        > Some people are ready to die for their beliefs.

        Really? Because while I've seen this, rarely, in individuals. In many cases once you start tracing money the amounts involved in many "die for their beliefs" situations is absurd. Terrorism, for example.

      • cpursleyan hour ago
        What point are you trying to make other than bigotry? Ethic Russians are not the only Eastern Europeans perpetuating cyber crime. Anyways, Nesterenko is a Ukrainian surname - at least get your racism correct.
  • consumer45111 minutes ago
    When I was learning some homelab stuff, and was setting up pfSense, I was able to see the geos of all that scans/attacks on my home internet. I was surprised to see that Netherlands was up there with Russian and China in volume. They all got geo blocked.

    What is it about the Netherlands that makes them so attractive for these people?

  • 0xAstro3 hours ago
    > Stark Industries Solutions

    jarvis, whats the status of my dutch servers

    • 2 hours ago
      undefined
  • debarshrian hour ago
    Those who are curious about notorious data centers, please see Cyberbunker [1]. I think conceptually it is cool. Also in the netherlands.

    [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CyberBunker

  • legacynl2 hours ago
    > those sanctions failed to target Stark’s remaining connection to the Internet — an Internet service provider based in the Netherlands called MIRhosting.

    The fuck, i walk past the office of mirhosting every day

  • an hour ago
    undefined
  • analog83743 hours ago
    It would be nice if they named/prosecuted the people who paid them to perform the attacks.
    • dist-epoch2 hours ago
      The FSB? What are you going to do about that. Russia shot down an airliner full of Netherlands citizens and there were no repercussions.
    • parineum2 hours ago
      Law enforcement doesn't typically talk about ongoing investigations.
  • ziofill2 hours ago
    Maybe it's because I haven't had my coffee yet, but I swear my brain read: "Neanderthals Seize 800 Servers"
  • DeathArrow3 hours ago
    After reading the article I am not sure what crime did they commit in the Netherlands.
    • msh3 hours ago
      The article spells it out clearly: charging them with violating sanctions law by directly or indirectly making economic resources available to EU-sanctioned entities.
      • 2 hours ago
        undefined
    • bunbun693 hours ago
      I feel like you’re only asking this because you disagree with their charges, not because you genuinely have no clue why they’re arrested.
    • binaryturtle3 hours ago
      > …charging them with violating sanctions law by directly or indirectly making economic resources available to EU-sanctioned entities…

      I guess that's why.

    • SecretDreams3 hours ago
      > charging them with violating sanctions law by directly or indirectly making economic resources available to EU-sanctioned entities.

      Did you read this part?

    • DonHopkins3 hours ago
      [flagged]