61 pointsby gpi2 hours ago11 comments
  • malkia8 minutes ago
    There is a game - Beyond The Darkness - released few weeks before the name change

    "Beyond the Darkness" was released on Nov 14 2024 - https://store.steampowered.com/app/1728610/Beyond_The_Darkne...

    "Beyond the Dark" (the malware) was released (ahem, renamed) on Dec 28 2024

  • galad87an hour ago
    Games are an almost perfect type of software to be run in a sandbox. The question is, why aren't they already run in a sandbox?
    • ux26647825 minutes ago
      SteamOS leverages namespaces via pressure-vessel already. The problem exists exclusively on Windows. Paravirtualized drivers introduce API incompatibility issues and decades of cumulative engine infrastructure made for Windows using the Win32 API means nobody wants to swap over to using UWP and thus AppContainers are a non-starter (and that's without getting to sacrificing Wine/Proton compatibility).

      The native isolation mechanisms like silos are things that require wrangling by professional sysadmins, I didn't even know they existed until I started writing this post. The real question to be asking is why is sandboxing so bad on Windows? Despite some searching, I still have no conclusive answer as to how to go about filesystem isolation in Win32-space, or if it's even possible.

      • malkia6 minutes ago
        Sandboxing is quite easy (user-wise), once you install the sandbox system. By default it allows only a single sandbox, and with small `.wsb` file you can drive what's visible from the host, whether the GPU should be active, etc. - https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/security/applicati...

        It's great for testing, and Sandbox is just the tip of the iceberg of what Windows Containers support

        - e.g. maybe someone can come up with "launcher" that goes through it (somehow).

    • pjc5025 minutes ago
      PC games tend to be the reverse: they demand control over the machine, in order to try to detect or prevent being run alongside various forms of cheating software.

      They also need low-latency access to the GPU, which I suspect is a fertile vector for privilege escape exploits.

      • blueg316 minutes ago
        Only a relatively small (but popular) subset of games use anticheat. Most games -- including the one in this article -- could theoretically run in a sandbox.
    • Aerroon17 minutes ago
      They are? Games need pretty much all the performance they can possibly get. Can you sandbox them without having a performance impact?

      Consider that people pay a $300 premium to get ~10% better performance (buying an RTX 5080 instead of a 5070 Ti).

      Personally I know that sometimes closing the web browser in the background makes my game run better - that web browser doesn't even interact with the game! Would a sandbox have a smaller impact?

    • 1bppan hour ago
      Every Xbox game runs in a HyperV container, maybe it's not a crazy idea for PC
    • sph6 minutes ago
      I run Proton in Steam flatpak, as well as itch.io from flatpak. That is reasonable enough isolation for my use case.
    • blitzar8 minutes ago
      Is this not just an artifact of windows not sandboxing anything meaningfully and that itself is an artifact of punch cards?
    • wao0uunoan hour ago
      Running games on Linux via Proton provides some isolation. It’s not technically a proper sandbox though.
      • parasense37 minutes ago
        Proton is just emulation, and it will happily expose the underlying host system to the running game software. In particular the filesystem and some peripheral devices. However, Valve is moving towards sandboxing in Steam. You can already run the whole thing with a flatpak sandbox, and valve themselves are using ostree. With srvio is possible to run the whole thing in a throwaway windows vm while the graphics card is passed through
        • sophrosyne4217 minutes ago
          This is why it was foolish to give a new name to it. It was originally called Wine Is Not an Emulator.
      • q3k29 minutes ago
        You can just use Linux syscalls from an .exe executed by Wine. There is no sandboxing.

        https://gist.github.com/q3k/e5952111283ea59ee78a7699919a055b

      • SuperNinKenDo43 minutes ago
        Anything that wants to traverse your filesystem could do so trivially from a wineprefix, but stuff like sniffing your browser extensions might be harder depending on the technique.
    • nubinetwork38 minutes ago
      Some anti piracy is already a sandbox.
    • SuperNinKenDoan hour ago
      I've formally studied gamedev, but haven't done anything in over a decade, but even before you get to the thorny issue of anti-cheat sustems, games rely on running at a(n often very) low level and doing unconventional things. I imagine they're one of the hardest things there are to sandbox without causing massive levels of breakage. But someone more knowledgeable about either side of the equation (sandboxing and/or game development) might be able to shed more light.
    • wotsdat27 minutes ago
      [dead]
  • cassianoleal2 hours ago
    What about all the other games with malware, like Denuvo and similar?
    • giancarlostoroan hour ago
      I recommend installing Linux. If it wont play on Linux even with Proton, you shouldn't give them a single penny.
      • freedomben11 minutes ago
        I agree, although I've made exceptions for a very small number of games with Denuvo (actually, just Hogwarts Legacy, which in hindsight I'm glad I did even though it still hurts my soul a bit) and they can run on Linux (I have nothing else but Linux). It's mostly kernel-level anti-cheat that won't run from what I've read.
      • fleroviumnaan hour ago
        [dead]
    • 7bit2 hours ago
      [flagged]
    • nekznan hour ago
      "drm is malware" is so 2005.
      • 4chandaily19 minutes ago
        "We have to stop the nazis" is so 1940s.

        "Congress is engaged in a witch hunt" is so 1950s.

        "Civil rights should be applied to everyone" is so 1960s.

        "Fossil Fuels are destroying the plant" is so 1970s.

        "Unregulated free trade is dangerous" is so 1980s.

        "The police are out of control and unduly target minorities" is so 1990s.

        Something being old doesn't make it less relevant or important.

        It means we need to say it louder, because for some reason the point hasn't been made clearly enough yet.

        • nekzn11 minutes ago
          We saw you, here are your lefty points.
      • freedomben10 minutes ago
        Every day there are new people coming online and/or of age who weren't aware or even alive in 2005. They too need to know that DRM is malware.
      • wanzgan hour ago
        "rootkits are malware" is in fact eternal.
        • blueg314 minutes ago
          Usually when people complain about Denuvo, they're talking about Denuvo Anti-Tamper, which (perhaps surprisingly) is not a rootkit.
      • _imnothere40 minutes ago
        A saying being old doesn’t make it invalid anyway. What’s your point?
        • nekzn11 minutes ago
          My point is that this saying is the tritest of the trite, and therefore not worth being posted.
      • mschuster9124 minutes ago
        Well, Riot Games just today (!) admitted to hard-bricking cheating hardware [1]. This kind of stuff definitely is malware, and your comment aged like milk.

        [1] https://videocardz.com/newz/riot-games-on-valorant-dma-cheat...

        • nekzn5 minutes ago
          You are confusing drm with anti cheats.

          In any case, good for Riot, and good especially for their players!

          • john_strinlai2 minutes ago
            anti-cheat is not perfect. they will brick a legitimate user's pc. that is the opposite of "good for their players".

            and even if someone is cheating on a riot game, bricking their pc is obviously fucked, and will end up biting riot in the ass.

  • embedding-shape28 minutes ago
    > What’s interesting is that while the game itself often crashed during launch, the malicious software continued running quietly in the background.

    Wonder how much longer it could have remain undetected if it actually fired up a shovelware game that could run properly, things like crashing probably gave it away way faster than it could've.

  • ChoGGian hour ago
    Huh. There is the occasional paid game on steam that has a 100% off deal. Guess it's time to start being suspicion of those as well.

    I'm thinking of the scenario where the original devs sell the game rights off since sales are bottomed out.

    • zamadatixan hour ago
      The best place to put malware is wherever people don't think they need to be suspicious of the software they run. Free games, paid games, supply chain - it doesn't really matter so long as they think they can trust it blindly.
  • Frierenan hour ago
    > However, someone reportedly hijacked the developer’s Steam account and quickly transformed it into Beyond The Dark – changing its name, screenshots, and other store details. As Steam does not fully verify every patch made to a game, the modified version was reportedly able to go live without raising immediate red flags.

    It is interesting that it seems to easier to take over a legit game than trying to create a new one. I have seen this with youtube channels, inactive during a long period of time and suddenly showing mostly scams. Or the original owner became a criminal, or more probably were taken over criminals.

    > The malware allegedly searched for cryptocurrency wallet browser extensions, including MetaMask, before connecting to external servers and downloading additional tools. These tools were reportedly capable of stealing browser information, passwords, and cryptocurrency wallet data.

    Cryptocurrencies are the most insecure currency that we have even invented. It is paradoxical that is being marketed as actually safe.

  • gorgmah2 hours ago
    This is bound to become more and more pervasive, with supply chain attacks happening extremely frequently now. My cooleagues and me almost got caught in the latest Shai-Hulud attack due to some tanstack packages. Noone is safe now.
    • qskousenan hour ago
      Not sure if it was a typo or not but "colleagues" is a great word, I'm going to start using it.
  • 2OEH8eoCRo0an hour ago
    Surprised this or malicious games and updates hasn't happened sooner.
  • dude250711an hour ago
    I am starting to think that perhaps their fee is not entirely justified.
  • Ember_Wipe28 minutes ago
    [flagged]
  • herpdyderpan hour ago
    And yet games like Subnautica 2 do similar things and nobody stops them because it’s in the EULA.
    • therealunrealan hour ago
      What does Subnautica 2 have?
      • john_strinlai6 minutes ago
        i assume they are referring to denuvo.

        and, while denuvo and other drm for games is indeed awful, i find it silly to equate it with cryptocurrency stealing malware.

    • Cthulhu_an hour ago
      Exactly because it's known - malware is only considered malware if you install it without knowing about it.

      But if you know about it you have a choice not to buy / install it, like with games like Subnautica 2.

    • butvacuuman hour ago
      Next up in Kim's ChatGPT History: "How to buy sockpuppets?"
      • skinfaxian hour ago
        Not for nothing but have we all forgotten the sony rootkit? Actually, that would be a perfect front. Start a game company backed by a nation state, put in rootkit anti-cheat, profit.