66 pointsby sabatonfan3 hours ago16 comments
  • raggi40 minutes ago
    > Look at the Railway GCP account ban situation. A literally billion dollar startup running on Google Cloud and Google just randomly snaps their fingers and deletes their account. Zero warning. No phone number to call. No account rep. Poof. Gone. It is actual insanity to me. A billion dollar customer gets the exact same automated middle finger as a low effort spam bot. Your B2B business is completely cooked if that is how you treat people. The enterprise cloud gravy train is right there and Google is standing on the tracks begging to get hit by the train.

    If you've been around a while you know that at any business critical scale at all you establish a relationship with your cloud provider and get an account manager. When you do this, you have a number to call.

    A billion dollar startup not doing this is a keen lesson for the CTO.

    Yes, Google likely screwed up here, but being unprepared for account problems, having no established relationship with your provider is a critical mistake.

    The article goes on to talk about Hetzner as an example: their pricing is great for individuals but they literally don't even offer account management relationships - even at scale they actively refuse them. There are equivalent stories of account terminations with Hetzner, which is also a key point: this isn't just a big business problem, at all.

    • sylens22 minutes ago
      Our team at work uses all three major public clouds and our Google Account Team is by far the worst of the three. Nothing like having to explain the same problem I’m having from the start again on every monthly cadence call because they don’t note anything or try to help resolve it
    • aurareturn34 minutes ago
      I would think that Railway certainly had an account manager, right? Did they say they didn’t have one?
      • MrDarcy31 minutes ago
        The article is incorrect and misleading. Railway did have an account manager and they did call them and they did pick up the phone and work with them to restore service.
        • Forgeties792 minutes ago
          An account manager overseeing such a manor client should’ve never let this happen. If they don’t, why the hell are they the account manager? What are they even doing to earn their keep?

          It’s not just about the value of the contract. This whole situation has been in the news for days now. It’s terrible PR and I guarantee you it is costing them business in the long run.

  • coderenegade44 minutes ago
    Google is in an incredibly strong position. They're a top tier AI vendor, and in a world where content creation is largely commoditized and outsourced to AI, advertising companies will determine what gets seen, and what gets buried in the noise. They control both generation and visibility of what gets generated. Facebook could be in the same position, but they aren't as strong in AI. OpenAI wants to be Google, but they don't have the advertising reach.

    Yeah, they aren't perfect or always necessarily the best in a given area, but to compare them to IBM is probably missing the forest for the trees.

    • jagged-chisel42 minutes ago
      Nobody ever got fired for buying IBM.

      Nobody ever got fired for choosing Google.

      Seems apropos.

  • somesortofthingan hour ago
    Not the article's main point but I've never liked the "google killing products" complaints. People always talk about how big companies fail because they're unwilling to take risks and just recommit to their areas of strength, but this is what risk-taking looks like - you blast out products, see what sticks, and kill what doesn't. People who think it's a quality product won't be wary of whether it'll get killed - the quality itself is insurance against that. How many DAUs would stadia or hangouts or even reader have today?
    • csallenan hour ago
      I'm sure that Google internally is well aware of the negative press that comes with product shutdowns, and is doing them regardless as a deliberate strategic tradeoff where they believe the benefits outweigh the costs.

      But it's very difficult to measure the costs, bc the #1 cost is lost trust, and how do you measure that? Many people simply won't sign up for a Google product bc they don't trust it'll be around long enough to justify the investment. These people don't show up in any metrics that you can reason about, and they're the least likely to take any surveys you might send out. At best, Google can guess what the impact is, and they might be wildly underestimating.

      I think a different strategic decision they could've made (and still could make!) would be to the do the opposite, and prioritize the benefits of keep projects alive over the costs of ruthlessly sunsetting then.

      They could say, "You know what, we have considerable resources. When we release something new, we're going to dedicate ourselves to keeping it running indefinitely." They wouldn't have to market them, or advertise them, or connect them to every new part of the evolving Google ecosystem, or make them particularly easy to find, or even keep them open to new signups. But just keeping them running as-is, indefinitely, and having customers tell each other, "It's Google, you can trust it, it's not going away," would be such a great PR win.

    • wrsan hour ago
      This is not about stickiness. People complain because they liked the dead product. Do you hear complaints about Google+ dying? Reader wasn't a risk, it was a product people loved that wasn't hard to run. It was just too boring to maintain, didn't support the ad monopoly, and Google dropped it for the next shiny monetizable object.

      Anyway, enterprise products are an entirely different ballgame where product support, and the reliability thereof, is measured in decades. The consumer product attitude is just a bad look, but things like the Railway incident are deal killers.

      • antibiosan hour ago
        Reader was dropped in the run up to G+. I believe there was a strategic decision to try and get people to move to G+ and move both personal news and organisational news together.
        • dekhnan hour ago
          The leadership was never completely honest about why Reader was shutdown, and the stated reasons didn't pass some basic sniff checks. But it was easy to read between the lines: the executives' attention was on other things, and Reader was a threat to their growth. But also it was a passion project that a company like Google would struggle to keep updating since it brought in little revenue (even though there were hordes of people volunteering to maintain it for free in their 20% time).
      • blondin40 minutes ago
        Google+ couldn't handle spams. Inbox was an excellent execution. one needed the tech that made Gmail, and the other couldn't co-exist with Gmail? we will never truly know.
    • KerryJonesan hour ago
      Most people would argue that Stadia would have many. Many people loved Google Reader. There are numerous examples of things that were great and were killed, because they hadn't monetized enough or "fast enough", and when you are chasing results on a quarterly basis, you can't always get things that will generate tremendous value with more time.
    • andrewxdiamondan hour ago
      I think the complaint about Google specifically is that they seem to do these things and commit to what seem to be whole lines of business without an actual business plan to make it viable.

      It’s one thing to take risks. It’s another thing to just guess without a plan.

    • spicyusernamean hour ago
      I don't disagree with your point.

      It's interesting to imagine if there's some kind of middle ground where products could be launched without the pretense of them being permanent? I suspect at least some of people's frustration is that X or Y was pitched as something serious, which then grates some when it gets canceled.

      But maybe you can't launch a product without pretending it's going to be real because it'll be dead on arrival?

      • rkagereran hour ago
        ...where products could be launched without the pretense of them being permanent

        Yeah, it's what Google used to do by releasing everything as "Beta". Gmail was in Beta for 5 years with millions of users.

    • cyberaxan hour ago
      Can you name a good new Google product then? I just can't remember anything recent. I can't even remember any good recent _improvements_ to their core products.

      If anything, recent changes are more like downgrades than upgrades.

      • amazingamazingan hour ago
        Notebook LM is good.
      • erwincoumansan hour ago
        Gemini is pretty good.
        • majormajoran hour ago
          Is it any sort of leap over the product's it's copying?

          IBM made some decent (sometimes extremely good, even!) products in a lot of segments for a long time after losing their relevance as "driving the future of computing." But rarely as a segment-definer or introducer.

        • bigstrat2003an hour ago
          You're entitled to your opinion, but you're literally the first person I've ever heard say that. Even people who like LLMs seem to think that GPT and Claude are the good ones, with Gemini being B tier at best.
      • antibios22 minutes ago
        Waymo
      • fragmedean hour ago
        Waymo's pretty good.
        • cyberax34 minutes ago
          That's not a Google product per-se, and it's also not new.
  • ismepornnahi42 minutes ago
    Why's this poorly written piece on top of HN?
    • amazingamazing35 minutes ago
      hate pieces tend to rank highly. better if it's hating on big co
    • 30 minutes ago
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    • ryanisnan34 minutes ago
      What makes you say that it was poorly written? I actually quite enjoyed it. I don't know if that says more about the writing, or me.

      In english lit as a high-school student, I always thought I did reasonably well on my assignments, but consistently got C's. It was very infuriating.

    • jeffbee34 minutes ago
      Why is the cat in the catnip again?
  • KnuthIsGod43 minutes ago
    All empires eventually decay and die.

    Wang, Bull, Unisys, IBM, DEC, the Mongolian Empire, the Hungarian Empire, Dutch Empire, the Portugese Empire.... they all exist in some form, but are shadows of their former selves.

    IBM died because it was forced to hire second raters to fill the ranks.

    Over time, the company became synonymous with failure and mediocrity.

    • add-sub-mul-div34 minutes ago
      I honestly think we're in a post-disruption era in that Google/Meta/Twitter/Reddit/etc. can't die. They have too much power and they've captured the entire population now. The internet isn't made up largely of enthusiasts anymore. Mediocrity is the strength of these platforms. The eternal September has made their home and they're not moving again.
  • illusive408025 minutes ago
    IBM is reinventing itself, no? From mainframe maximalists to purchasing HashiCorp, Red Hat, Confluent. All to capture enterprise for years to come. It seems as if IBM is making a comeback.
  • CSMastermind12 minutes ago
    If anything I think Microsoft is IBM
  • sebstefan22 minutes ago
    >YouTube is eating itself from the inside out too. Everyone hates the demonetization stuff but the low effort AI slop content is what really kills it for me. YouTube got massive because it had real creators. Supply and demand. A real marketplace. But if you keep kicking off the actual suppliers and replacing them with low effort garbage, literally anyone can host that garbage.

    I don't see slop on youtube and nobody I know is complaining about it. My current problem is private equity buying all the channels I love!

    Veritasium, Fern!

  • jeffbeean hour ago
    "Everyone hates YouTube" is an argument that has a lot to overcome. All objective indicators suggest it is incredibly popular, and growing in popularity, pretty much across the demographic board.
    • crowcroft37 minutes ago
      This is pretty common across social media as well, surveyed sentiment towards it often negative while usage is high. I suspect it's because of the addictive quality.
      • jeffbee28 minutes ago
        But sentiment toward YouTube isn't negative. It is the most reputable social media in Morning Consult's brand reputation survey. It enjoys a higher reputation score than things like Cheerios and Tylenol. I don't think you can separate the reputation of the platform from the collective impression left by the creators, and people like the creators on YouTube. And, I propose, people largely DGAF about the platform features and presentation.
  • devjaman hour ago
    While Apple does make nice hardware and appear to be listening to their users in that respect, don't forget that Tahoe has not been particularly well-received.
  • hintymadan hour ago
    > YouTube is eating itself from the inside out too

    One thing that I really really hate Youtube for is that they don't allow users to turn off their shorts. You can choose to "reduce" Shorts for a given session, but they come back right next time.

    That said, Youtube is tremendously valuable for its high-quality content. It's kinda like a restaurant. The service can be horrible. They decor can be hideous. But! I'm come back and pay as long as the food is delicious.

    • sakesunan hour ago
      You can go to Google Account > Data & Privacy. Then pause Youtube History. There will be no more feed on Youtube home screen. You will only see your /subscriptions feed. Little trick for a more peaceful life.
    • kyrra41 minutes ago
      There's a new setting rolling out in the YouTube app.

      Go to settings > time management > shorts feed limit. Turn that setting on, and you can select how many minutes you limit to. There's now an option for "0 minutes".

    • antirealist19 minutes ago
      Yeah the 'not being able to turn off shorts' is such a brazen, anti-user form of enshitification. Alongside not being able to hide threads in Instragram (can only hide for 30 days), and so many other examples. Like there is enough demand for this that there are literally browser extensions to block shorts.

      I can see why youtube don't want you to disable; because shorts are "addictive" in a certain moorish way and letting you disable would lesson your expected youtube use time.

      But it's such a wierd choice on a certain level right. Like "lets make our product objectively worse for users because (in the short term?) we'll make more money". It's the sort of choice that does't really exist in the "real" "normal" economy. Like you bake some bread, you wanna make it as good as possible, I buy it from you because you make good bread.

      So anyway I get why they do it. I'm just a little surprised that in their calculations the gains to engagement from forcing shorts are worth the loss of user goodwill. And even like employee morale right. Like how would you feel about your job if you're having to do this stuff, deliberately and explicitly curtailing the choices of your users.

      But yes I agree the content is great.

    • user393938230 minutes ago
      > but they come back right next time.

      I never once did playables and each time asking them to dismiss them. I wrote down every time I was re-prompted for over a year:

      March 19, 2025 - 8:31 PM

      April 9 - 4:09 PM

      April 24 - 8 AM

      May 9 - 5:33 PM

      May 20 - 2:07 PM

      June 8 - 5:10 PM

      July 9 - 6:59 PM

      August 9 - 5:14 PM

      September 8 - 8:45 PM

      November 9 - 8:47 PM

      December 9 - 8:48 PM

      Jan 8, 2026 - 9:28 PM

      Feb 7 — 11:11 PM

      March 10 - 9:18 PM

      April 10 - 1:10 AM

      May 10 - 7:53 AM

    • SanjayMehta43 minutes ago
      On IOS/macos there's an app called "Unwatched for YouTube" which allows you to subscribe to channels via RSS (no need to login) and then you can turn shorts on/off per channel.

      It's free for now but the developer has plans for some kind of subscription for premium features.

      https://apps.apple.com/in/app/unwatched-for-youtube/id647728...

  • fumaran hour ago
    Is this AI authored rhetoric?
  • rvzan hour ago
    No it is not.
    • jeffbeean hour ago
      This is as solid an argument as the article.
  • amazingamazingan hour ago
    I remember these types of posts saying Google is done because they shut down Google Reader. Google's stock was about $60 at the time. I look forward to reading this post and chuckling a few years from now. Doomers really do get more engagement, though. I have some friends in real life who complained about reader, and none of them even use RSS feeds anymore. I mean seriously?

    The one point I will make though is: these people complaining about Google shutting things down is really just funny. It's like complaining about people having abandoned side projects. A healthy organization tries things. Not everything works out or is cashflow positive. That's life.

    For reference Google has more employees than all Y Combinator companies combined. Keep in mind there are thousands of dead Y Combinator companies.

    A better complaint about Google would be the lack of polish on many products. Take Gmail. Google made haste in adding the "AI Inbox", and yet you can't even read threaded emails in reverse chronological order. People have been complaining about this for nearly its entire existence. With the talent, and now AI - there's no reason such a thing couldn't be fixed tomorrow. It's just CSS and there are tons of chrome extensions that implement this. C'mon...

    • kuschkua few seconds ago
      > I remember these types of posts saying Google is done because they shut down Google Reader. [...] I have some friends in real life who complained about reader, and none of them even use RSS feeds anymore. I mean seriously?

      Can't you even consider the possibility that the reader shutdown and the death of RSS might be causally related?

    • majormajoran hour ago
      I was thinking the other day that it's particularly weird that Gmail is so bereft of features after all this time. It's not that they've left it completely as-is "this is great, there is nothing to do"—but just that the things they have tried have been... kinda uninteresting and quite simple? It's weird to me that with the other AI features they've tried (including suggested responses and such in drafting new emails) there isn't anything, say, to make really good proactive suggestions for like "apply this label to all incoming emails like this."

      That sort of stagnation, though, and lack of their "trying things" really moving the needle compared to their decades-old ads product, makes me think they really are becoming the new IBM. IBM, in my estimation, has largely been irrelevant to the future of computing since the early 80s when MS ended up owning the PC story, but they have still had some quite solid stock prices runs at times over the decades (10x in five years at the end of the 90s, say). You can make a lot of money with a no-longer-that-interesting business.

      • amazingamazingan hour ago
        I honest to God cannot see how someone informed at all could call Google stagnant. Name almost anything and Google is on the frontier. Quantum computing, self driving, language models, network infrastructure, TPUs, etc.

        It's some sort of delusion on this website that Google is falling behind. Or more likely, wishful thinking.

        • majormajor37 minutes ago
          For self-driving, Waymo isn't technically Google anymore. ;)

          I don't know anything about Quantum so I'll defer to you on that one.

          In the LLMs/inference/ML space they seem to be great at theory and poor at execution until someone else shows them what the model looks like first. Similar to with cloud. Or with mobile. Or with voice assistants. Or with social (well, they never got there on that one even with the copy attempt.) Which is a classic "decline phase" behavior (see also Xerox, Bell).

          If all Google products outside of their research papers and labs had disappeared ten years ago, what product categories would be missing?

          • amazingamazing36 minutes ago
            YouTube has nearly the same MAU as Facebook. YouTube is definitely social, albeit different. The rest, well I respectively disagree.
            • majormajor35 minutes ago
              That's fair. In my taxonomy it's media+ads, which was "fewer unique verticals" but it certainly has a heavy social component.

              But it's also over 20 years old.

        • shimman40 minutes ago
          Nah, they're right. Google can only afford to do this because there are literally two players when it comes to online advertising. Remove advertising from Google and suddenly they can't subsidize failing BUs.

          Kinda the point of preventing monopolies. They stagnate actual growth in the pursuit of profits. Americans don't benefit when Google is a trillion dollar company, but Americans would benefit if there was an actual competitive market.

          • amazingamazing37 minutes ago
            Sure, and 20 years ago Walmart dominated retail. And yet, Amazon is winning now. Being #1 is never guaranteed. Plenty of more examples of this happening. Defending your position becomes increasingly difficult. We're literally seeing this right now with AI.
    • dioban hour ago
      Yeah, IBM is nothing like Google, it's a weird comparison.
    • jeffbee38 minutes ago
      What kind of sicko wants to read an email thread in reverse order? I worked on gmail for years and never heard the first whiff of this being a thing that any sane person wants.

      I would be willing to allow that there are probably some highly vocal people conditioned by OWA trauma who might have demanded this, but by no means a grassroots army.

      • amazingamazing33 minutes ago
        is it really that weird to want to read the most recent email first? that's how the emails are already arranged. they just decide to not respect this when reading threaded emails. or is this sarcasm? lol
    • SanjayMehtaan hour ago
      If you only use IMAP gmail is just good old email. I learnt about the AI inbox from your comment.
  • Ayushkumar1808an hour ago
    [flagged]
  • sieabahlparkan hour ago
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