435 pointsby gok7 hours ago12 comments
  • tptacek3 hours ago
    The Chesa Boudin DA "misrepresentations" document, linked towards the end of this story, is weak, bordering on Trumpian. It highlights as "misrepresentations" cases where Boudin simply disagrees with Lim about a statement of opinion (whether his office was suitable forthcoming, organized, or deflecting). At one point it accuses Lim of "violating HIPAA", which is not a thing† (HIPAA constrains covered entities, not reporters).

    I think both sides of this conflict (Tan and Radley) are talking past each other and scoring points for their respective sides; Radley is famously an advocate of progressive prosecutors, and Tan (IIRC) worked to remove Boudin. I don't expect a totally accurate and balanced retelling from either side, in the same way that you should not expect a completely neutral report on inner-ring suburban housing policy from me (I'm a housing activist).

    But I did come away from this with a lower opinion of Boudin's office.

    (For what it's worth, I was extremely optimistic about the wave of progressive prosecutors led by Larry Krasner in Philadelphia, and while I have some Radley Balko issues, I've been reading John Pfaff on this stuff for a decade. What's happened to my worldview since then is that I feel like I've watched outsider-y progressives get elected into prosecutor roles and then fail their constituencies not because of ideology but over basic competency issues. I'd be foursquare behind a progressive prosecutor in a major city that ran a tight ship; we tried this in Chicago and didn't get that.)

    btw: if you're the DA for a jurisdiction that includes a reporter, and you claim the reporter's journalism is unlawful, you sure as shit better have that right.

    • JumpCrisscrossan hour ago
      > I feel like I've watched outsider-y progressives get elected into prosecutor roles and then fail their constituencies not because of ideology but over basic competency issues

      Huh, I went through a similar journey in New York, starting as an advocate of criminal-justice reform and then getting fed up with the incompetence.

      And while I wouldn't say ideological inflexibility is ideology per se, one of the contributors to ineffectiveness I saw in New York was a simultaneous inability to tolerate competent people with even slightly-divergent viewpoints (and there were a lot of red lines–I don't know what multidimensional beast could thread them), or, alternatively, an inability to fire or beach clearly-incompetent people because they were part of a priority community. (Read "community" broadly. It might be an identity. It was more often whatever union or local progressive club the person cropped up through.)

    • singleshot_19 minutes ago
      > I'd be foursquare behind a progressive prosecutor in a major city that ran a tight ship

      Strongly inclined to hire such a prosecutor. Has this model been successfully deployed in any large U.S. cities? My only experience is watching it struggle in a medium one.

      On your last point: given the ethical responsibility of a prosecutor, I’d go one step further. If you’re the prosecutor for a jurisdiction where a journalist works, and you make any statement about the legality of the journalists works, you better be substantially likely to secure a conviction, otherwise you should mind your business.

      • tptacek17 minutes ago
        Yes. It is a weird document. Journalists are unfair to prosecutors and police chiefs all the time. Shut up and do the job.

        (I have feelings here because we're in a mini-spat between our PD and our terrible local newspaper, which is upset that our chief won't give them an interview after the local police union gave her a no-confidence vote; where I live, that vote is, reasonably, viewed as a sign she's doing the job well. But either way: she's not going to give an interview on this!)

    • xKingfisher3 hours ago
      How does it seem that Radley is talking past Gary?

      All discussion of the 'Misrepresentations' article is responsive to Gary's mention of it in the original article. And at no point does Radley appear to endorse its contents.

    • nickburns3 hours ago
      Can you elaborate on "basic competency issues", either in the case of Boudin's office and/or other high profile reformist prosecutors? Is that just a polite way of calling them dumb, à la what the kids are calling a 'skill issue' nowadays?
      • tptacek2 hours ago
        I can speak at length to the tenure of Kim Foxx, Chicago's former high-profile progressive prosecutor. I know some of the issues rhyme with Boudin's term, but San Franciscans can tell his story better than I can.

        So, first, no, I feel like I'm saying the opposite of "they're dumb". I don't think either Foxx or Boudin are dumb. I think they're both interesting people with interesting and valuable views.

        When I say "basic competence issues", I'm talking about the kinds of things that would go wrong if, like, you or I took over the CCSAO and started managing all the prosecutions in Cook County. For instance: having huge numbers of line prosecutors resign, in part because you totally fuck up the promotion ladder, in part because you shift staffing priorities away from line prosecution and towards internal policy positions, and in part because you fail to sell your immediate-term vision for how you're going to manage the agency.

        The superficial way to look at veteran prosecutors resigning is that they're no longer culture fits, which you can look at as a good thing: Boudin and Foxx were hired to change those cultures. But a more practical and immediate way to look at them is that losing veterans puts the screws on your ability to execute the day-to-day of the agency. These prosecutor offices were incredibly strained before people like Boudin and Foxx got there. Which means: there was already an extent to which prosecution decisions were being made not just on justice, safety, or public policy more broadly, but simply on a triage basis.

        When you start losing significant numbers of people, you lose the ability to set your own execution priorities; circumstances are making prosecutorial decisions. Foxx tried to put a brave face on it, but nobody was buying it.

        What's more frustrating is that Foxx was doing this at the same time as Illinois was rolling out SAFE-T, which ended cash bail in Illinois. I am wholeheartedly in favor of SAFE-T, and I think by-default cash bail is an idiotic system that unnecessarily amplifies the societal cost of law enforcement. But SAFE-T was ultra-controversial in Chicagoland, and Foxx went through all this stuff while people were freaking out daily about catch-and-release. It didn't help that all of this coincided with a huge regional increase in carjackings, the second most important urban index crime after murder. It further didn't help that she was accused of refusing to prosecute juvenile carjackers, and that when confronted by reporters about that, she didn't have a clear denial.

        I hope this reads as I intend it to, which is: not ideological, just an assessment about whether someone is prepared to step in and run the office, most of which is boring and just needs to be done correctly.

        (I think you can probably look at Krasner as an example of a prosecutor who has avoided these traps.)

        • dionidiuman hour ago
          We almost certainly have opposing ideological views, but something I said a lot during this era (that I'm happy to see you hinting at) was that if you come into office as a progressive prosecutor without any plan to deal with the people in your office or in law enforcement who aren't on board, then that's really the more immediate failure. You can't just say, "I would have been successful if not for my detractors," because the detractors are a totally predictable obstacle for which you need a plan.

          In big systems you can't always just do whatever you want!

          • fzeroraceran hour ago
            I mean, you have basically no control over law enforcement if they decide to arbitrarily slow down arrests or protest your leadership. This has been one of the more consistent issues in American politics and you can see it when the police union doesn't get their way they have a huge tantrum and make things worse for everyone involved.

            This isn't really a statement on Boudin did or did not do since I don't have that knowledge but rather from separate experience seeing law enforcement shit itself during other elections.

            • JumpCrisscrossan hour ago
              > you have basically no control over law enforcement if they decide to arbitrarily slow down arrests or protest your leadership

              Nobody has control over other people. If you want to overhaul the police, run as a legislator. Prosecution is most closely an executive function–you're expected to do the best you can with the cards you're dealt, not throw your toys out of the pram because you wanted an ace trail.

        • lazyasciiart2 hours ago
          > prosecution decisions were being made not just on justice, safety, or public policy more broadly, but simply on a triage basis.

          > When you start losing significant numbers of people, you lose the ability to set your own execution priorities; circumstances are making prosecutorial decisions. Foxx tried to put a brave face on it, but nobody was buying it.

          So, circumstances were making prosecutorial decisions, and the new DA efforts to make fundamental changes did not fix those circumstances, and therefore all changes they made were considered to cause that state.

          The office wasn't running. It is not the fault of the new guy that it keeps not running.

          • tptacek2 hours ago
            If you assume office and things get worse, that is in fact on you! I'm not saying Foxx's predecessor was good; Foxx's predecessor was Anita Alvarez, who was herself a trainwreck in the opposite direction.

            A problem I see all the time in these kinds of public policy debates is that people have ideological rooting interests. That isn't going to get you anywhere in a debate about a major metro prosecutor's office. You can't project out "this person was progressive therefore they were good" and you can't do "this person is a law-and-order tough-on-crime prosecutor so they're good" either. It's a very difficult job. Notably: I think you'd have a hard time finding credible people who believe Foxx did a good job in her office.

        • ChuckMcM42 minutes ago
          -- When you start losing significant numbers of people, you lose the ability to set your own execution priorities; circumstances are making prosecutorial decisions.

          Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding! God so many people don't "get" this. Engineering leaders that come in and create and exodus of senior leaders, same thing. I started calling it organizational momentum. The speed at which you get things done, goes up as the organization gets to understand itself. A bunch of key people leave and BAM momentum goes to zero and suddenly all the milestones you are missing are putting all the wrong pressure on the org to get moving again.

        • JumpCrisscrossan hour ago
          > the second most important urban index crime after murder

          Can you comment on why this is? Is it because it's common? Or so visibly impactful?

          • tptacek30 minutes ago
            Carjacking is a subset of motor vehicle theft, which is an index crime, but carjacking commands more public attention than anything except for murder; this is a vibes-based assertion but I feel like I could back it up easily.

            Importantly: the carjacking wave wasn't Foxx's fault (it was in fact Kia's fault). She was in an incredibly tough position --- she also had to deal with Chicagoland police departments that have not covered themselves in glory over the last 20 years. But she didn't rise to the challenge.

        • jrflowers2 hours ago
          I enjoyed this long post about how changing the culture in a DA’s office is bad and should not be attempted
          • tptacek2 hours ago
            Because that's definitely what I said.
    • rafram3 hours ago
      The main HIPAA claim seems to be that the victim didn’t provide (or consent to the publication of) that X-ray, and neither did their only family member known to possess it. I don’t know who released it, but if it was someone in the medical office, that is a genuine HIPAA violation.
      • tptacek3 hours ago
        It could be a violation at the medical office, but Lim isn't a covered entity, and the document accuses her directly.
      • adrr2 hours ago
        HIPAA only covers entities that are legally required to follow it. Covered entities and business associates. It doesn’t apply to anyone else.
    • 0xbadcafebeean hour ago
      > I've watched outsider-y progressives get elected into prosecutor roles and then fail their constituencies

      Political achievement via moral/ethical/legal means does not work. We expect a single person with extremely limited power to assume a relatively minor position in government, then somehow defeat incredibly wealthy organized opponents, in addition to solving complex logistical and social issues, and to do all that without ever doing anything wrong? It's nearly impossible. Progressives need to return to the good old days of corruption and coercion if they want to get anything done.

      • JumpCrisscrossan hour ago
        > then somehow defeat incredibly wealthy organized opponents, in addition to solving complex logistical and social issues, and to do all that without ever doing anything wrong?

        No, we expect them to do like one thing right without bungling the basics. The track record of the pre-pandemic era wave of progressive prosecutors was some combination of doing absolutely jack shit in the first category and/or being asked for table stakes on the latter and swallowing their chips.

    • dijksterhuis3 hours ago
      > The Chesa Boudin DA "misrepresentations" document, linked towards the end of this story, is weak, bordering on Trumpian.

      Are we reading the same document?

      The first example is almost a perfect example of what's stated in TFA. Lim is incredibly aggressive in making her argument, and not an argument based on real evidence.

      Scanning through the rest, it reads as much the same.

      Direct gdrive link for those who don't want to go back and scroll through the article again: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1VZKYxe0oGq7HeC5Kj2lxf-X55r4...

      edit:

      > At one point it accuses Lim of "violating HIPAA", which is not a thing† (HIPAA constrains covered entities, not reporters).

      Ehhhhh. I diagree with that reading. There's a clarification bullet point two lines down from the headline bullet (page 3). Emphasis mine.

      > This suggests Ms. Lim was received a patient’s privileged medical records from another unauthorized source in violation of HIPAA.

      I read this as the unauthorized source is violating HIPAA. But I guess neither of us are lawyers. So...

      • js22 hours ago
        > Direct gdrive link

        I'm confused where this came from. I cannot find this link in the original article as submitted:

        https://radleybalko.substack.com/p/truth-power-and-honest-jo...

        The most I can find is "But I found another place where someone has posted all 81 pages. It’s here. Feel free to look them over."

        Where "here" links to:

        https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/21011168-responsive-...

        That is the 81 page PDF referred to multiple times in the article and is titled "Responsive Records Lim - Balko correspondence_Redacted". I don't see "HIPAA" appear in it anywhere. Toward the end of that document on page 69 is a screenshot of a text that includes a Word attachment titled "Dion Lim Misrepresentati...". After that are screenshots that are excerpts of the gdrive document that you linked, but the HIPAA accusation is not in any of those screenshotted excerpts.

        So how did tptacek even come across the HIPAA accusation, and how did you find the document that you linked that contains it?

        Edit: ah, it's linked from this sentence "But in the interest of transparency, I’m posting it as well. You can read it here." where "here"[^1] links to the gdrive document.

        Sheesh.

        [^1]: Pet peeve - you've failed HTML 101 if you use "here" as a link. A few sentences earlier in that paragraph is the text that should've been the link text: 'the “Dion Lim Misrepresentations” document that Tan mentions in his post'.

      • tptacek3 hours ago
        That's an extremely charitable read of a DA's office alleging lawbreaking. I really think you have to kind of slant your head and squint to come away with the impression that that section isn't about Lim, but rather the unnamed medical office.
        • dijksterhuis2 hours ago
          As i said, neither of us is lawyers. Neither of us are experts in what a DA's office has written, and what that writing should be interpreted as under the law. Perhaps a more charitable reading is what is called for, given we're not experts in the domain.

          i don't know about you, but i'm pretty confident a DA's office has a much better idea than me about what each of the HIPAA sentences in the document translate to in terms of "allegations".

          • tptacek2 hours ago
            The question you're raising isn't a legal one, at least as I understand it. I read you to be saying "the reasonable take on this document is that they are saying SOMEONE violated HIPAA, but not Lim".

            That's a question about messaging, not the law.

            • dijksterhuis2 hours ago
              i didn't raise the legal point.

              > † btw: if you're the DA for a jurisdiction that includes a reporter, and you claim the reporter's journalism is unlawful, you sure as shit better have that right.

              > That's an extremely charitable read of a DA's office alleging lawbreaking.

              you seem to be inferring that the DA has made an allegation of unlawful acts, and that there could be consequences for that allegation. that sort of thing often entails "legal stuff". courts and judges stuff. hence, my spiel on "we are not lawyers".

              i believe you stated an *uncharitable* take on the bullet points in the document. my point is that there is another reading. one where the benefit of the doubt is given to the relative experts in law. a sibling in the thread seems to agree that *a* violation occurred, not directly implicating Lim, which implies that they may have read it a similar way to my *charitable* take.

              https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48184449

        • phonon2 hours ago
          A. That's how I read it too. B. You can be criminally liable for HIPAA violations, if you induce someone covered by them to violate them. See for example https://www.justice.gov/usao-nj/media/1254226/dl (indictment of KEITH RITSON)

          "COUNT 2 (Conspiracy to Wrongfully Obtain and Disclose Individually Identifiable Health Information) 19. Paragraphs 1-3 and 5-18 of Count 1 of this Superseding Information are hereby realleged and incorporated as though set forth in full herein. 20. At all times relevant to this Superseding Information: a. The Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act of 1996 (“HIPAA”) protects individually identifiable health information from wrongful disclosure or obtainment and seeks to set national standards to maintain patient confidentiality. b. In connection with HIPAA, the United States Department of Health and Human Services enacted regulations to safeguard the privacy of patients’ medical records and limit circumstances in which individually identifiable health information or protected health information can be used or disclosed. The HIPAA law and privacy regulations apply to, among others, health care providers, such as medical doctors, who transmit health information in connection with a transaction covered by the law and privacy regulations. c. Frank Alario, who is listed as a co-conspirator with respect to Count 2 of this Superseding Information but not as a defendant herein, was a health care provider and a covered entity under the HIPAA law and privacy regulations.

          21. From in or about August 2014 through in or about February 2016, in the District of New Jersey, and elsewhere, defendant KEITH RITSON did knowingly and intentionally conspire and agree with Frank Alario and others to commit offenses against the United States, that is, to knowingly and without authorization obtain individually identifiable health information and protected health information to another person, and to knowingly and without authorization disclose individually identifiable health information and protected health information maintained by a covered entity relating to individuals, contrary to Title 42, United States Code, Section 1320d-6."

          • tptacek2 hours ago
            Is there a fact pattern where Lim could have bank-shot criminal liability despite not herself being a covered entity? Probably? She could have misrepresented who she was and obtained the records through fraud, for instance. Again, my thing here is, if you're going to put those kinds of accusations on the table, and you're a district attorney, you'd better come correct. The facts presented in the document the DA's office shared are not sufficient to allege wrongdoing by Lim.
            • phononan hour ago
              If you induce someone to violate HIPAA who is covered by it (like say a nurse at a hospital), you can be criminally liable. There is no carve-out for journalists. BOTH the person who gave the record and the person who induced them to give it could be liable (not in the same way, possibly). In any case, you seemed to think there was a bright line rule of some sort, that "At one point it accuses Lim of "violating HIPAA", which is not a thing† (HIPAA constrains covered entities, not reporters)." when in fact you can be criminally liable for inducement/conspiracy etc if you induce someone who is covered to give you those records, under https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/42/1320d-6

              Here is another similar case of a non-medical person violating HIPAA.

              https://www.justice.gov/usao-wdtn/pr/memphis-man-sentenced-c...

              Take the L :-)

              • tptacekan hour ago
                No, I don't think I will. Reporters covering public policy matters and obtaining records from covered entities have First Amendment protection arguments that a conspiracy among insiders and external mules to sell health information don't have. But none of this is my point. I'm not arguing that it would be impossible for Boudin's office to allege wrongdoing. I'm arguing that they failed to do so. Like, a really basic thing: where'd she get the X-Rays from? The allegation doesn't say.

                I'm commenting on the specific thing Boudin's office (inexplicably) wrote about this particular reporter. I'm not making a grand statement about HIPAA.

                (I don't know anything about the reporter other than that they worked for ABC7 in SFBA and not like GatewayPundit).

                • phonon35 minutes ago
                  It would depend on exactly how the records were obtained. If hypothetically she paid a nurse $100 for it (and had done so many times in the past), that could be criminally liable. In practice, no-one would prosecute over a single x-ray. But when a reporter gets legally protected medical information "somehow", an insinuation that a legal violation took place at some point to effect that is not unreasonable.
                  • tptacek29 minutes ago
                    Yes it is. And when it's a prosecutor saying that, doubly so.
    • 3 hours ago
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  • SwellJoe4 hours ago
    I've come to be convinced that having a huge amount of money causes some kind of mental breakage, a need to control other people that is unhealthy for everyone it touches. I don't mind everyone having or expressing an opinion, even opinions I disagree with, but when someone uses their disproportionate wealth and influence to spread misinformation and disrupt and dismantle democratic systems it crosses a line. It takes a lot of nerve to call spreading misinformation and funding recall campaigns based on lies speaking truth to power. And, to attack someone for reporting facts that correct that misinformation? Grotesque.
    • burkaman3 hours ago
      I don't think having the money causes the problem, it's the journey to get to that point. People like MacKenzie Scott or lottery winners generally don't act like this. But aside from those rare instances, in order to make it to a billion dollars you need to consistently exploit people and absolutely refuse to use your power to help others in any significant way. You have to wake up every day with a hundred million dollars and think "the best thing I can do with this money is use it to make more money".
      • at-fates-hands2 hours ago
        >> in order to make it to a billion dollars you need to consistently exploit people and absolutely refuse to use your power to help others in any significant way.

        I would categorically disagree with your statement.

        Jeff Bezos

        Elon Musk

        Bill Gates

        Mark Zuckerberg

        All billionaires. All have created one (or multiple in Musk's case) products that have greatly benefitted society in numerous ways. The Gates Foundation has donated billions to causes all over the world. Bezos has committed over $3B to various charitable causes.

        Also, More than 70% of lottery winners will run through of the money they've won and be right back where they started before winning. Further proving my point the people who win the lottery are not visionaries and have no desire to create products that will change people's lives. They're just happy to have the money.

        • overgard40 minutes ago
          If you ever meet these people you're bound to have a "don't meet your heroes" moment.
        • SlinkyOnStairs2 hours ago
          That reply is utterly baffling. We can set aside Bezos and Musk, but the exploitative actions of Zuckerberg and especially Gates are extremely well documented.
          • IshKebaban hour ago
            The claim was that they refuse to help others in any significant way. Clearly nonsense for Gates at least.
          • an hour ago
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    • Snow_Falls4 hours ago
      I would agree with you, I see people like Jeff Bezos who's unfathomably wealthy but also treats his workers so terribly that they have to pee in bottles and I wonder why? What compels someone to so obssesively seek wealth that they must treat people like that. I can only see it as some sort of mental illness. When someone compulsively hoards trinkets to the detriment of all around them, we call that a disease and I don't see why we should treat it differently when it's dollars they're collecting.
      • sleepybrett2 hours ago
        To be fair, I don't think jeff has proclaimed that their drivers need to pee in bottles. That's all mid level managers trying to show gains to their up-line reports.

        Jeff (and the board) wonders if deliveries could be more efficient, and wants to find efficiencies to report to the board and the shareholders. However it's fucking dave, 6+ layers below jeff that is firing drivers for missing unreasonably tight delivery schedules because they had to stop to take a leak. So that dave can tell suan who can tell susan who can tell .... and finally jeff that deliveries are now 2.3% faster.

        I do think that enough money and therefore a higher degree of control of your own life experiences does warp your perceptions of the world, however. I fail to understand why anyone with a billion fucking dollars in the bank just doesn't retire to a beach stocked with sex workers and cocaine and instead decides to continue torturing people through layers of unthinking bureaucracy though.

        • tartoran2 hours ago
          >Jeff (and the board) wonders if deliveries could be more efficient

          And does not even care how or want to know how, just attain the goal at any cost. Of course, when word gets out that people are forced to pee in bottles, he suddenly wants to change things, not because he cares about the conditions that led to it, but because it damages his image.

        • jaggederestan hour ago
          The purpose of a system is what it does. If you're in control of a company, and that company is an "orphan crushing machine", it's your responsibility because ultimately someone must be responsible. You could argue the board shares responsibility, and certainly every high level manager endorses it.

          You have to say "Deliveries should be as efficient as is consistent with basic decency, anyone delivering Amazon packages will have breaks and schedules that are reasonable and achievable", in the same way that he mandated APIs[1]

          [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18916406

        • an hour ago
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      • Sharlin3 hours ago
        To get to where Jeff Bezos is, it's almost mandatory to have sociopathic traits and to be genuinely incapable of regarding other people as anything but means to an end. It's a simple selection effect.
        • tencentshill2 hours ago
          He took a course on how to use your laugh as a domination tactic.
      • aquariusDue2 hours ago
        Who knew dragons in real life could be so lame compared to fiction /s
    • mghackerlady2 hours ago
      How much money do you think causes it? Additionally, perhaps it's the other way around. Being someone who's predisposed to those tendencies is better at gaining capital. I think some good evidence for this is that Ken Olsen, by most accounts, was a saint and he owned DEC. Him having a substantial amount of wealth didn't turn him evil, so perhaps either he didn't hit that threshold or got lucky enough to not need the unhealthy and controlling tendencies to make it big
      • Barrin92an hour ago
        >think some good evidence for this is that Ken Olsen, by most accounts, was a saint and he owned DEC

        You're right that the money itself does not cause it but what mattered with people like Olsen was that he had a Scandinavian background and was born in the 1920s. 'Saint' is a telling description because people like him came out of a, not necessarily explicit but still functioning culturally Christian environment with virtues that tempered the influence money had on them, he often remarked that humility was most important to him.

        Very different person from the current class of individuals who are completely unrestrained by the values people took for granted for a long time.

        • mghackerladyan hour ago
          if the US of all places isn't a culturally christian environment I don't know what is
          • bix6an hour ago
            Has US Christianity always been like this or has it changed? It all feels very manipulative to me now and the morals / virtues seem to have fallen by the wayside.
          • Barrin9241 minutes ago
            it isn't, not in his sense anyway. The moderate, central and northern European mainline Protestantism that fostered democracy, education, an egalitarian social contract and temperance you if at all find now only in small pockets.

            It's a huge mistake to confuse that kind of deep cultural Christianity with what has been politically ascendant for a long time now in the US. That older, European set of values is still much more alive in say Sweden, which despite an even higher per capita rate of billionaires would not produce Garry Tan or Bezos or Musk.

    • ericmcer12 minutes ago
      Or like... getting money is a big filter and any normal person who hits it stops working and disappears from the corporate world.
    • runjake3 hours ago
      Perhaps it's more accurate to say that people are used to getting what they want. When they don't, it violates their hedonic adaptation and provokes a negative reaction.

      Mixing wealth into this situation increases the blast radius and makes it more public.

    • throwaway1324484 hours ago
      You have it backwards. The person didn’t change, they were always like that, long before money. Our system selects for them and rewards them, and when they attain those rewards they use them to further express themselves as the person they always were.
      • bombcar4 hours ago
        This is the truth of the matter - everyone else got off the train at millions or a small billion; the only people who ride it all the way to trillions are the pathologies.
      • k__44 minutes ago
        This.

        Directors of small companies are the same, they're just not wealthy enough that they could do any harm.

      • thisisit4 hours ago
        Quite often money is equated with intelligence and with time people want their opinion on everything under the sun - especially on things outside their area. With time so much smoke has been blown up their ass that they think they are better than everyone and can get away with mistreating people. Money does impact people.
    • bix6an hour ago
      I read this and had a similar question of why do they all go so far down the right wing rabbit hole? Just noticed that one of the amplifiers was such which got me thinking. It seems like all these extremely wealthy people pick up such destructive and twisted worldviews that all somehow feed on this weird energy of stupidity. I’m just so baffled by it cuz they are surely smart people but so blinded. Sometimes I think it must be a marketing stunt but nope.
    • AlexandrB4 hours ago
      It's the same problem that afflicts celebrities. Once you're to a certain level of prominence, there are many people who will gladly sniff your farts and tell you your ideas are great, thus you "lose touch" with reality on the ground. Then when someone comes along that doesn't care for your ideas or worldview it's easy to assume they're either engaging in bad faith or are somehow biased because it flies in the face of your day-to-day experience. I don't envy these folks, they're surrounded by liars and grifters.
      • Imustaskforhelp2 hours ago
        You are actually kinda right. I do think that if you turn as a "really rich" person, you just don't know about anything to trust at a certain point.

        Firstly, you will have the people who will praise your diamonds and everything and make you lose touch with reality.

        But there would also be the more subtler ones whom you actually consider friends. there can be two things that you meet some people before hand and judge them or were already rich before having such friends, but even then the first group might just change knowing that you are now extremely rich and might want subtle favours and so act subtly different.

        In a nutshell, I feel like extremely rich people might not know how people actually think of them because we have commoditized everything to money,opportunities and networks and in some sense, they are unable to trust their own real instincts too.

        Also we are forgetting the fact that these people would change with so much external influences too and that some people would stop after a certain point so as to they will not reach the scale of billions but rather stop at millions.

        All of these factors combined make for the most egotistical machines.

        just a few thoughts on extremely rich people, South park creators seem to be one of the exceptions for me and it seems like those guys are just two friends who just like doing what they do and even said a massive fuck you to paramount even on television.

    • draw_down43 minutes ago
      [dead]
  • jrflowersan hour ago
    It is hilarious that Garry Tan is still talking about Chesa Boudin. I thought Tan & co. solved crime in San Francisco with their super PAC four years ago?
  • pstuart4 hours ago
    An acknowledgement, let alone an apology is highly unlikely.
  • nothinkjustai5 hours ago
    Surely there’s a skill in G-Stack for this.
    • _3454 hours ago
      yes just ask claude to add quick-silence-dissension to your project
      • asdff4 hours ago
        Ahh yes the [ Removed by Reddit ] function
    • yuvadam4 hours ago
      leave gstack alone!
      • BrokenCogs2 hours ago
        It's just text files Garry!
      • tibbydudeza4 hours ago
        No problem - if I want a slow poke blog site powered by slop ;).
  • 3 hours ago
    undefined
  • vrganj4 hours ago
    Garry just comes across as a deeply unsavory figure deeply stuck in the far right radicalization pipeline.

    He regularly calls out "Marxists" on Twitter and rails against leftists, all while supporting mass surveillance and building a dystopia.

    What a yucky person.

    • browningstreet4 hours ago
      And Paul G has defended him on X as a centrist. Weird blind spot.
      • jasonmp853 hours ago
        "Centrist" in America is just "far-right but doesn't talk about it very loudly"
        • JumpCrisscross43 minutes ago
          > "Centrist" in America is just "far-right but doesn't talk about it very loudly"

          Centrist in America means institutionalist, i.e. gunning for the status quo. That's going to piss off lefist and right-wing fanatics because both want to blow up the status quo. (They tend to be seen as a spoiler for progressives and conservatives. Think: Joe Manchin or Susan Collins.)

        • boroboro4an hour ago
          But this particular one does?..
    • tevonan hour ago
      Dude there is nothing "far right" about him.

      Way too broad a brush to paint with. If we want to retain any sort of liberal democracy we need to stop with the rhetoric that "if you're not as far in X direction as I am, you must be on the other side". Its destroying the democratic party.

      I'm a staunch democrat, and this is just sad to see. Progressive and centrist should both be able to coexist. We should be able to call out ineffective policies within our own movement without being called far right radicals.

      • vrganj6 minutes ago
        Dude he's decrying "Marxists" online. The dog whistle can't be any louder, it's hurting my ears already.
    • tibbydudeza4 hours ago
      The cult of Thiel - is he also the shitty vibe coder ?.
    • NickC252 hours ago
      He's also a non-white immigrant. The amount of brown skinned nutjobs try to cosplay as white so they'll be accepted as "one of the good ones" is too high.

      Hey brown or yellow immigrants - the conservatives will gladly accept your vote, but the second you walk away they won't even refer to you by name in conversation, they'll refer you to with every slur in the book. I grew up with some very far-right types who had money...nice to "the help" in person, but soon as earshot is out of range, you hear the n-word like it's as common as the word "the". And just because you're not black, doesn't mean they don't hate you too. I've heard some horrid things said to Indians, Chinese, Japanese, Koreans, Pakistanis, etc.

      Anyone remember the young republicans club at Florida International University scandal? Lots of young male Cuban immigrants (or kids of immigrants) desperate to be seen as white. Problem is, you pull any one of those kids out of Dade county, they'll be called a Mexican and told to go make tacos.

      Garry's actions on social media remind me of those kids, albeit someone with a bit more money, and a little less perspective on things.

    • baggy_trough3 hours ago
      He's so far right that he endorsed Scott Weiner! That's pretty far, all right!
      • mghackerladyan hour ago
        the far right will collaborate with people more left on the political spectrum if it benefits them. Think the molotov-ribbentrop pact. The nazis benefited from stalling any soviet aggression and the soviets got poland before going to war with germany
        • baggy_troughan hour ago
          Ah yes, Garry Tan and Scott Wiener are much like Molotov-Ribbentrop. Truly penetrating perspective.
          • mghackerladyan hour ago
            I was using an example to back up my statement, nobody with basic knowledge of rhetoric would see it as a 1:1 comparison
  • boroboro45 hours ago
    This is what great reporting looks like: well-written, transparent, and rigorous. It’s sad to see how hatred toward progressives can distort people’s judgment.
    • tim3332 hours ago
      Re. hatred towards progressives and the Boudin recall:

      >Boudin ... alleged... that the campaign was largely a Republican effort to remove him from power. Despite Boudin's claims, the recall campaign was publicly led by Democrats. 83% of donors to the campaign were from Democratic-registered voters or no-party-preference voters, with over 80% of donations coming from local San Franciscans. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chesa_Boudin)

      There's quite a lot on the reasons why in the article.

    • burnte2 hours ago
      > It’s sad to see how hatred toward progressives can distort people’s judgment.

      The status quo is easy, change is hard, and anyone benefiting from the status quo will do whatever they have to in order to prevent change. Progressive by definition want change, progress. Change is scary. Humans are most easily motivated by fear.

      • thrance2 hours ago
        I think it's a little more than just fear of change. Garry Tan knows where his (material) interests lie, and will do and say anything to fight off those who would build a more equal society, even if it means supporting actual fascists like Trump. The ultra-wealthy are very class conscious.
        • nielsbotan hour ago
          It would be nice if billionaires could f off to billionaire island and leave everyone else alone

          you won capitalism. go away.

    • loeg3 hours ago
      This isn't great reporting. It's politics.
      • tptacek3 hours ago
        Kind of a category error to suggest there's a stark difference. Over the last 100 years, enormous amounts of excellent journalism has been informed by political objectives on the part of reporters.
        • kasey_junk2 hours ago
          It’s weirder than that. Even the idea of an apolitical journalism is ahistorical.

          Apolitical journalism started with the telegram wire services as a _marketing_ approach, not a moral one. It allowed them to sell to more local papers which were all politically aligned. You can see that in some of the surviving names. But local reporting stayed political in those individual papers the whole time. We have like a whole chapter in basic us history classes on the political implications of the Spanish American war journalism empires.

          Apolitical tv was similarly a market condition. The airwaves were limited, so the content was controlled. That was apolitical in that it tried to appease both parties, but you wouldn’t see any topical coverage on political issues they both opposed.

          So when people talk about politics entering journalism they are telling on themselves. They prefer a very narrow set of journalism that wasn’t ever some universal norm, and was itself political.

        • jeremyw2 hours ago
          Yikes. Vastly outweighed by the ruination of journalism by politics.
          • tptacek2 hours ago
            There's abusive intersections of politics and journalism just like there are abusive intersections of all sorts of other things and journalism. The idea of a truly neutral reporter though is a fiction.
        • loeg2 hours ago
          This article isn't that -- nothing excellent is achieved. It's pure intra-party squabbling between leftist and centrist factions of California Dems. Balko is just trying to score points for his faction.
      • Analemma_3 hours ago
        Completely content-free junk statement. The post is purportedly about correcting bad information about a person who held public office, and (if it is in fact misinformation) was spread for political reasons. How are you supposed to do such a correction without it being political?
      • vrganj3 hours ago
        Everything is politics.

        Which food you eat (are you vegan? carnivore diet? Both have implications in regards to animal welfare, climate change, soil use, identity etc etc), which media you consume (obvious), which job you have (which power structures do you strengthen with it? who benefits from your labor? who do you try to disrupt?).

        To say one is "apolitical" is just voicing a preference for the status quo.

        To decry something as political is just voicing one's political opposition to the view expressed.

        • energy1233 hours ago
          That's a pretty depressing worldview. Children playing in the park aren't being political. It's possible to just exist sometimes.
          • pixl972 hours ago
            >Children playing in the park aren't being political

            I can assure you they absolutely are. Of course there isn't a well defined elected government here, but 'social politics' between children are absolutely occurring. Things like looks, material goods, clothes, ability to take care of themselves, etc all affect how they interact with each other and who is popular and gets to take the lead/be bullies/etc.

            HN posters can be really clueless to the world around them at times.

            • alxjrvsan hour ago
              We don't even have to zoom in, to be honest.

              What children? What park? The presence of a park pre-supposes a political society that has prioritized parks, the budget to enact those priorities, and the space to do so. Any one of those can spiral into its own political microcosm.

              How is that park maintained? Is there a special kids area of the park? Is it "for kids" or is it "The kids area", implying that kids aren't allowed in the rest of the park? Are the children not allowed in the park after a certain time - and who decides that time, and why? Sometimes the park is used for town events, but can get rented out. Who decides that?

              Complexity is inherent, from the atoms to the galaxies. Any rejection of that is just plugging your ears, willfully or not.

          • maxlamb3 hours ago
            But that park was probably created as a result of a vote or other political process.
          • fzeroraceran hour ago
            It's not that long ago that black children were barred from being in the same space as white children so at one point yes, it was political.
          • 2 hours ago
            undefined
          • brendoelfrendo2 hours ago
            The children playing in a park aren't being political, and are largely insulated from the politics of playing in a park... but those circumstances are surrounded by all kinds of political process. As another commenter said, the park's existence is probably due to politics; as are the rules the children need to follow, what activities are permitted, the safety and maintenance of park equipment and facilities, curfews, etc. It is also a choice on the part of the parents to let their kids play in a park, and which parks their kids play in, and those choices aren't made in a vacuum. Perhaps the perspective of the adult should not be to view children in the park as apolitical, but to be cognizant of the processes that influence their children and try to ensure that they work for the children's benefit.
        • rationalist3 hours ago
          Maybe I just want to eat what tastes good, and not have to worry about how what I chose on the menu is going to support a politician, political party, businessperson, etc.

          The "everything is politics" meme is old and annoying.

          • samtp3 hours ago
            Just because you choose to ignore the externalities of your choices doesn't mean they no longer exist. It just means that you value your personal well being and comfort more than being informed about the results of your actions.
            • rationalist20 minutes ago
              I never said anything about ignoring the externalities. I also never said that I was ignorant to the results of my actions.

              It's just not political for me.

              I guess I'm not surprised that this cognitive trap about politics has spread - after all, people care more about deploying any tools they can to "win", rather than being correct.

            • nielsbotan hour ago
              And have the luxury of being able to ignore them. That is a luxury.
          • JuniperMesos2 hours ago
            It's a poltical act to eat food that tastes good, in defiance of the activists who think that the food yiu find tasty is immoral and want to make it illegal for you to do so. Something is a poltical act if other people want you not to do it and want to enforce this through law, which you have no control over.
          • vrganj3 hours ago
            Sure, you can. But don't pretend that's not a political choice.
            • irishcoffee2 hours ago
              This is so tired. Give me a topic about personal food preferences and I can spin is 6 ways from Sunday towards whatever (or against) political bias you want.

              “If you don’t participate in politics you’re evil” is an opinion that is judgmental, aggressive, frames the speaker as a bully with self-appointed moral superiority.

              It’s not nice to tell people “you’re selfish and part of the problem if you just want to live a quite life away from all the crazy people who link politics to their self worth” and calling it “not nice” is a wild understatement. I see it as harassment. “Care because I think you should!”

              Fuck that haha

              • samtp2 hours ago
                “If you don’t participate in politics you’re evil” is an argument that you completely made up.

                You don't like to be called selfish for not considering how your actions might affect others, but others are supposed to care about how their actions might affect you? Seems like a pretty self centered attitude to have.

                • rationalist27 minutes ago
                  > “If you don’t participate in politics you’re evil” is an argument that you completely made up.

                  Incorrect. People were saying if you don't vote at all, you're supporting Trump.

              • pixl972 hours ago
                You're almost there and then you give up on original thought at the last minute.

                >“Care because I think you should!”

                Welcome to politics. Not only do I demand that you care because I think you should, but I will smash you with the full force of the law if you don't.

                Now, if you decide to do nothing, well, you're getting your ass smashed by the full force of the law and whining like a little bitch saying "I'm not political, why did this happen to me".

                "If you choose not to decide you still have made a choice".

                And "There are no neutrals in the reality, entropy forbids it".

              • vrganj2 hours ago
                You seem to have fundamentally misunderstood my point.

                I never said “If you don’t participate in politics you’re evil”.

                My point is that there is no not participating in politics. The lack of participation is a political choice in itself.

    • justin66an hour ago
      Given how many articles he's published in Reason Magazine over the years, Radley Balko might qualify as "libertarian" or perhaps "civil libertarian" rather than "progressive." Not that the labels ought to matter too much.

      (I posted this article with its actual title a few days ago and it didn't pop at all, which is funny I guess)

    • rangerelf4 hours ago
      [flagged]
      • arvid-lind4 hours ago
        It shouldn't be any big surprise that a guy like Garry Tan is power-hungry and manipulative. He's got his hands in all kinds stuff like influencing elections. https://garrysguide.org/elections
      • GlacierFox3 hours ago
        This Tan guy is a real douche and in full support of the author but...

        "Usually it's the latter, because, who wouldn't want the needle to move even a little bit in the right direction?"

        Which direction? The one you think is right or the other one, other people think is right?

  • max00773 hours ago
    why is YC worshipping this guy who pretends like he's the only guy who knows how to use cc?
  • outside12343 hours ago
    Is there a YC school that folks like Garry and Sam went through to learn how to be unethical?
    • sumeno2 hours ago
      It's a requirement to reach the levels they have reached. Someone with empathy would get enough money to take care of their family (maybe even for multiple generations) and then be satisfied and focus on reducing the suffering of others instead of running up the score on net worth
      • an hour ago
        undefined
      • pixl972 hours ago
        I mean, after I racked up a two digit number of milions of dollars I believe I'd find myself thinking "why the fuck do I need more, it's time to go fuck off and do anything else".

        Musk at one time said something like "I work 80+ hours a week, so the people around me should work that much too". They are completely blind to how sociopathic they are. It's a totally unhealthy amount to work for one, but for two is Musk himself will likely earn billions from those workweeks while the people around him will earn almost nothing except stress and then getting randomly fired by him on a whim.

        They are not connected to the same world we are.

        • protimewaster28 minutes ago
          > Musk at one time said something like "I work 80+ hours a week, so the people around me should work that much too". They are completely blind to how sociopathic they are. It's a totally unhealthy amount to work for one, but for two is Musk himself will likely earn billions from those workweeks while the people around him will earn almost nothing except stress and then getting randomly fired by him on a whim.

          Beyond that, normal people also have other things besides work that will take up their time. It's a lot easier to work 80 hours a week when you're rich enough that you don't ever have to do laundry, clean the house, cook, take care of your kids, tend to a sick relative, sit in a waiting room for 6 hours, be stuck in traffic for 45 minutes, etc.

          One of the reasons that working a lot sucks for most of us is that we still have to go home and do the laundry or whatever.

  • Lionga4 hours ago
    Why are there so many stories that are older AND have less points higher on frontpage?
    • tomhow4 hours ago
      That’s always true of almost any story. There are many signals that influence a story’s rank: votes, flags, vouches, age, site, software penalties, and moderator intervention (usually to override flags and automatic penalties).

      In this case, there’s no way this story would be considered worthy of front page placement if it wasn’t about a YC exec. We’ve overridden usual moderation policies and signals to keep it on the front page, as per our longstanding policy.

      https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...

    • striking4 hours ago
      User flags can weigh stories down. If you'd prefer a different sort, try https://news.ycombinator.com/lists ("active" is popular, though not my taste really)
  • v0x4 hours ago
    Well, to be fair, Garry's article was clearly 100% AI-generated. So perhaps he didn't even really post it; maybe it was just a rogue agent. Or, y'know, an assistant who posted without his authorization. Or perhaps Ambien was involved. Or, it was an Ambien-addled assistant who misconfigured an agent to post the article. Clearly not Garry's fault.
    • Atotalnoob2 hours ago
      Then he shouldn’t be posting under his real name? Or specifically call that out.

      When people tell you who they are, listen to

    • nerdsniperan hour ago
      I catch the /s, but honestly - if you sign your name on work product, you own it. Regardless if it was written by AI or ghost-written or whatever.