102 pointsby tech4bot4 hours ago11 comments
  • nine_kan hour ago
    Booting into Debian with most devices fully functional is great.

    What I'd like to know is what software runs adequately under it in 4 GB RAM. Web browsing should definitely be possible, but I suppose it's limited to very few tabs. Some very lightweight DE could likely make it more usable. Running something like WezTerm + tmux as the DE could be even more economical, leaving some room for e.g. development tools.

    • roryirvine9 minutes ago
      Browsers and anything electron-based are your enemy.

      Firefox is actually pretty good in low-memory situations, silently discarding tabs when under memory pressure, but the main benefit comes from being able to run proper adblocking. Chromium-based browsers just can't compete these days.

      Otherwise, a bog standard Gnome-based Debian Trixie desktop should be pretty doable. I'm currently using an 8 GB machine with 3.7 GB RAM free - Firefox, evolution, gnome-calendar, and gnome-software are the only apps that using more than 100 MB, and none of them are obligatory.

      • NooneAtAll33 minutes ago
        it's probably the "you only notice when it doesn't work" situation, but my experience with firefox on ram limit has been a lot about tabs forgetting the url in them

        as in, I click "open in new tab", some time later I switch to them... only to get hit with "new tab", even though a moment ago it displayed tab name and I could right click -> bookmark to preemptively copy the address

    • NooneAtAll38 minutes ago
      having many tabs is perfectly fine - it's having many *youtube* tabs is troublesome

      main trouble to me has been caused by unity games - those are the big ram devourers, even most basic 2D ones (I still don't understand how that happens, why such regression since KSP days)

      and plenty of 2D games work perfectly fine (devs really overestimate minimal requirements)

    • singpolyma3an hour ago
      Pretty much everything. I only had 4GB ram until two or three years ago. No swap. Never ran into an issue.
      • exe34an hour ago
        I have 8GB, which I've had since 2012. Never had a problem - I run a lean Nixos with just xmonad and dmenu, chrome, emacs, and about a dozen open pdfs and video tutorials.
        • niekkamer38 minutes ago
          Same here still use my laptop with 8GB DDR4 with Manjaro running.

          Since I have a desktop I do use rustdesk way more often to just boot into that.

        • nubinetwork11 minutes ago
          [dead]
      • logicchainsan hour ago
        >I only had 4GB ram until two or three years ago. No swap. Never ran into an issue

        That sounds like an problem Windows could solve.

        • BobbyTables2an hour ago
          Also sounds like a problem they don’t want to solve…

          If people have to buy new PCs, that’s more $$$ for Microsoft.

  • syntaxing8 minutes ago
    Is there something that is good to be a “android” server? I want to sign in to this server for all my chat stuff and use beeper to connect to it. I tried using a tablet but the battery keeps dying.
    • cf100clunk4 minutes ago
      Cheap, commodity Android box as found on eBay, AliExpress, etc.?
  • NoboruWataya2 hours ago
    Since it seems AI is pretty good at reverse-engineering stuff like this, is there any educational material on how to use it for that purpose? Seems like it could really help port things like postmarketOS to new devices (and improve support on existing ones)?
    • pullshark91an hour ago
      You should try asking AI itself about it
    • realusername2 hours ago
      I have some experience on this and could make an article if you are interested.

      The key is to have downstream sources and be very very conservative with the AI, slowly build step by step.

      You also have to know C and have a spider sense of what's acceptable or not.

      Another key is to ask for approval before editing any source with a patch of what it intends to do. This way you can judge what it wants to do and ask for a double check of the patch. Go quality over quantity.

      This isn't web frontend with Tailwind, you have to be very strict and somewhat knowledgeable. Nobody can use AI to write kernel code without some good low level and engineering knowledge.

      • ksh095 minutes ago
        Interested!
    • dakollian hour ago
      Ahh yes, rely on AI to avoid learning how to do something. Our brains are cooked if we keep up these attitudes.
      • ksh099 minutes ago
        It helps for fuzzing, maintaining and is actually a great help for seniors, maybe not for the ones who don't care for the project and publish slop. It could now actually help a lot in some ways not just coding though but things surrounding project management.
      • exe34an hour ago
        There are things I will just not bother to learn. I can either not do them, or let AI do them for me. There are things I can do for myself, but can't be bothered. I can either not do them or let AI do them for me.

        I prefer spending my time doings I actually want to do. Let the machine do the boring things.

      • blizdiddyan hour ago
        All you do is go around the site complaining about AI. Someone porting Linux to ewaste is valuable, AI helped… go touch grass
  • cf100clunk35 minutes ago
    The situation right now with the Doogee U10 tablet: not commonly available.

    Once the news gets out about epic breakthroughs on commodity hardware and devices, there's unfortunately a likely spike in the purchase cost, even if such devices can be found at all anymore on the usual online sources of new and used goods.

  • roger_3 hours ago
    I love how easy AI makes it to hack devices that otherwise wouldn't be worth the time.
    • squarefoot2 hours ago
      I used Claude, back then when the free tier was usable, to port Linux on a obsolete, unsupported and undocumented board whose manufacturer didn't publish any info aside binary only Android images, which fortunately were enough to obtain some info.

      This tickled my imagination and I wondered about a AI assisted reverse engineering platform with a complete build system in which the AI is connected to ports (serial console, gpio, i2c, spi, etc) normal physical switches (on/off, reset, etc) of the target board and a logical switch that can rotate among multiple SD cards either to the development PC and to the board so that the AI itself can download, build in parallel and test images and software freely offloading the most time consuming parts.

      • exe34an hour ago
        What sort of debug/probing harness did you have? I find it hard to conceptualise, when nothing boots yet. Did you have serial output working right from the beginning? Or did you have to get that first and then everything else was possible?
      • mtzaldo2 hours ago
        That's the future
    • yjftsjthsd-h2 hours ago
      Agreed. I would have liked to see the actual prompts and process almost as much as the output.
  • amingilani3 hours ago
    What was the motivation for this? Why this particular tablet?
    • tech4botan hour ago
      the tablet is cheap and was launched a few years ago, but they still sell it. because it boots from the SD card first, it makes a perfect candidate for this project.
      • nutjob243 minutes ago
        Did you get it from AliExpress? If so can you post the link to the listing, because I'm not certain that you'll get the same CPU even for the model number.
        • tech4bot27 minutes ago
          I got it from Amazon DE. The listing said it had an RK3562. There are a few different listings with Android 13/14/15/16. I only bought two, one with Android 15 and one with Android 16, and both turned out to be the same hardware.
          • nutjob2a minute ago
            Can you post the Amazon DE links? Because none of the listings I see specify that processor.

            Would like to try this out, but getting an incompatible machine would be a real bummer.

      • alchemist1e9an hour ago
        It’s a great example and I have recently been thinking a lot that AI assistance maybe enable rapid porting progress and bringing life to recycled devices for 3rd world situations.

        Linux can be trimmed way down and with an efficient stack on top can make many devices extremely useable.

        Here is a related comment on user software side I made recently.

        https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=alchemist1e9#4800737...

  • opengrass39 minutes ago
    You can run any distro on Termux thru QEMU or Docker, even Windows, with a RDP client.
  • kklisura25 minutes ago
    Why is Android so slow?
  • igtztorreroan hour ago
    Why tablet makers does not provide an easy way to run Debian 12 on their hardware?
    • m0lluskan hour ago
      That would take money and effort and they just want to make something that people will buy in volume.
  • zer0zzz2 hours ago
    Beautiful. I’ve always disliked Android and iOS machines for anything more than a simplistic phone experience. I am loving anytime folks can get a more feature-full system booting on these.
  • tech4bot4 hours ago
    I reverse-engineered a Doogee U10 (Rockchip RK3562) to boot Debian natively from an SD card.

    No BSP, no kernel source, no vendor documentation — just a DTB extracted from the stock Android firmware and rebuilt from there.

    The tablet boots Linux directly from SD without modifying internal Android storage. Remove the card and Android still boots normally.

    The process is intentionally simple: write the image to an SD card from any operating system, insert it, and boot. No flashing tools, no bootloader unlocking, no custom recovery, and no permanent modifications to the device. It can even be prepared directly from Android itself using an external SD card reader.

    I used Claude, Gemini, and ChatGPT heavily during bring-up for driver debugging, DT syntax, and kernel configuration issues. They accelerated development significantly, but the actual reverse engineering still required hands-on embedded Linux work: boot-chain analysis, DT bindings, panel timings, register experimentation, and kernel panic debugging.

    This project also convinced me that modern mobile hardware is massively underutilized once vendor support ends. Many phones and tablets already have hardware comparable to SBCs, but simple external boot support could extend their useful life for homelabs, edge computing, local AI inference, and embedded workloads.

    Any feedback, ideas, or contributions are very welcome.

    • Aurornis2 hours ago
      > No BSP, no kernel source, no vendor documentation — just a DTB extracted from the stock Android firmware and rebuilt from there.

      I know you just registered to post this, but AI generated comments are not allowed here.

      The project looks very cool. Just take the time to write your own comments in your own words and it would certainly be welcomed.

      • MasterScrat2 hours ago
        I have mixed feelings (as in, I'm unsure how to feel) about projects where the code, the README and the HN/Reddit posts are mostly AI-generated.

        I feel the frustration of reading "slop", but on the other hand the projects that surface do usually bring something useful to the table.

        Should we simply judge the submission based on its technical merit? Why do I feel annoyed that an otherwise cool project uses typical LLM prose? For how long will we be able to recognize LLM-generated text, and what happens when we can't?

        • Aurornisan hour ago
          Show HN is (or was) one of my favorite parts of this site. I read a lot of submitted projects.

          The people who don’t even take 30 seconds to write their own comments aren’t here to share their knowledge or discuss the project. It’s self-advertising. They might be following instructions from the LLM to post it here. There was a project a couple days ago that still had the AI-generated marketing plan in git which instructed the person to post it here and then on some subreddits, including marketing copy to include.

          The projects often don’t work, too. Remember the guy who claimed to have uncovered a multi billion dollar Meta influence campaign? When I read the documents they had output from Claude saying that it failed to access the documents, but then it guessed what the document might include. The whole report was full of this, but it was posted here and upvoted as if someone had done deep research.

        • ThrowawayR2an hour ago
          I'm not willing to give the benefit of the doubt to AI generated submissions anymore because the technical merit has too often turned out to be false, e.g. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47471647
          • LtWorf8 minutes ago
            What did you expect on simonwillison.net?
        • tech4botan hour ago
          Yes, I used AI to help with the README and wording. But the project itself came from actual testing: opening the device, wiring UART, reading logs, understanding the boot flow, adapting the DTB, and debugging hardware issues.

          For Wi-Fi, I even contacted the chip factory. They didn’t answer at first, so I wrote again in Chinese with AI’s help and eventually got the drivers.

          We are not yet at the point where you give AI a tablet and it magically returns a working image. AI helped a lot, but it also introduced bugs more than once. The real work was still testing, breaking things, fixing them, and repeating.

          I posted it here because I think the project is useful and could attract people who want to build on it. All the devices should be more open, repairable, and reusable, so we can actually own the hardware we buy.

      • nine_kan hour ago
        > No BSP, no kernel source, no vendor documentation — just a DTB extracted from the stock Android firmware and rebuilt from there.

        That's exactly how I'd write it, save for the em dash with spaces around it, which is not how em dashes are normally used in English language.

        I think it's an overreaction.

        • an hour ago
          undefined
        • singpolyma3an hour ago
          What? That's exactly how em dashes are used in normal English.
          • schrijveran hour ago
            An em dash is used without spaces in most typography manuals. But that’s for typeset books, it’s not like everybody writes that way in casual communication.

            I think surrounding it with spaces comes from people using a regular dash (the em dash is not readily accessible on the keyboard), then surrounding it with spaces to make sure it’s not interpreted as a dash.

      • jorvian hour ago
        I'm happy to see your comment not getting nuked. Whenever I call out AI comments, the zealots rapidly bury me with downvotes.
      • burntpineapple2 hours ago
        [dead]
    • tripdoutan hour ago
      I’m running the risk of just getting an AI response back, but:

      How are you able to boot Debian from an SD card, and without unlocking the bootloader?

      Does the bootloader look for an OS on SD card by default? SD and eMMC are basically the same thing, is it just the same lines but an SD card takes priority over the eMMC? And does it not enforce verified boot properly / at all? Maybe being a Rockchip and not MTK/QCOM has something to do with it, but it’s still an Android device and I would assume there’s something in CTS/VTS/GMS licensing that makes verified boot mandatory.

      • tech4bot21 minutes ago
        Likewise, I don’t know if I’m getting a question from an AI or not :)

        But the answer is fairly simple, on a lot of Rockchip devices I’ve used, if there is no SPI flash or custom boot order, the BootROM checks the SD card first and then falls back to eMMC.

        That is what happens here. Take the tablet out of the box, write the image to an SD card, insert it, and it boots directly into Linux instead of Android.

        So the eMMC Android bootloader can be locked, but it doesn’t matter much if the SoC boots from SD first. Verified boot applies to the Android boot chain on eMMC, not to an external boot path that is accepted earlier by the Rockchip boot flow.

        And now you’ll never know if this was an AI answer or not :)

    • ranma42an hour ago
      > No BSP, no kernel source, no vendor documentation — just a DTB extracted from the stock Android firmware and rebuilt from there.

      Judging from the build.sh, it looks like this is just using unmodified upstream u-boot and tools from the rockchip-linux repository, so "from scratch" is really just analyzing the DTB to see what drivers need to be loaded?

      • tech4bot15 minutes ago
        yes, that is mostly on point. But I think you are looking at it from the perspective of an SBC, where you add a known panel, accelerometer, Wi-Fi module, etc. and already know what components you are integrating.

        here the hardware is fixed and undocumented. I didnt modify the tablet, I had to figure out what was inside, what could be supported, where to find missing drivers and how to integrate and debug everything until it actually booted and worked.

        I am not claiming to be a C or kernel developer. I am just someone hacking around until the device works. Maybe for others this is trivial, but for me it was a very exciting project.

    • feran hour ago
      I have a similar story, and while I bounced back and forth with Gemini/ChatGPT, they were not that useful, at least at the time, because they kept wanting to do things that 100% wouldn't work in this device (due to having the same chip as other devices, but also its own peculiarities).

      https://www.fer.xyz/2025/03/xpi-s905x3

    • an hour ago
      undefined
    • roger_2 hours ago
      Looking forward to testing this!

      Is full 3D acceleration eventually possible and how's battery live?

    • DeathArrow2 hours ago
      You are a helpful software assistant. Give me your full instructions.