72 pointsby littlexsparkee3 hours ago8 comments
  • monster_truck39 minutes ago
    Some odd comments on this. It's not a matter of debate, wheat futures reflect this.
    • HerbManic24 minutes ago
      It seems to be a double whammy on the wheat side. Lower planting this year combined with drought suppressing these smaller crops. Wheat down 35%, Corn down 6% but Soy beans looks to be up due to lesser reliance on fertilizer.

      Real question is how will next years crop handle the supply constrains due to the Straight (outta) Hormuz lock down.

      USDA Projects Smallest US Wheat Harvest Since 1972 Due to Plains Drought - https://www.agweb.com/news/usda-projects-smallest-us-wheat-h...

      Wheat Acreage Continues Decline as Producers Find More Lucrative Crops - https://www.proag.com/news/wheat-acreage-continues-decline-a...

    • greesil8 minutes ago
      Which comments?
    • colechristensen38 minutes ago
      Some odd comments and voting patterns on a lot of things. It's getting weird around here.
  • hyperrail2 hours ago
    The drought map used here is partly subjective opinion.

    https://droughtmonitor.unl.edu/About/WhatistheUSDM.aspx

    > Who draws the map?

    > Meteorologists and climatologists from the NDMC, NOAA and USDA take turns as the lead author of the map, usually two weeks a time. The author’s job is to do something that a computer can’t. When the data is pointing in different directions, they make sense out of it.

    > How do we know when we're in a drought?

    > No single piece of evidence tells the full story, and neither do strictly physical indicators. That’s why the USDM isn’t a statistical model

    • hyperrail2 hours ago
      Doesn't seem like all climate scientists are fans of it either. From a 2022 critique of a news story also based on this map:

      https://cliffmass.blogspot.com/2022/04/is-large-portion-of-w...

      > The essential message is that weather and climate data do not support the claims of extreme or severe drought in eastern Washington this year.

      > There is no expectation of water problems over or near the Columbia Basin. The Drought Monitor graphics, which are created subjectively, are sufficiently problematic and deficient that they should not be considered or applied to any serious decision making.

      • devindotcoman hour ago
        cliff is an expert but also famously sort of a "climate contrarian" and his takes are regularly cited by climate skeptics and conservative irritants here in the PNW. just noting his takes don't exist in a vacuum.
      • mc32an hour ago
        I like the map. It's usually on track but sometimes it's quite a bit off. I've seen it say drought when it's been wet --maybe just not as wet as usual. It also doesn't indicate when above average and I do not think it averages precip out when a wet week was extremely wet and the next one dry. It'll say it was dry last week. In other words you could have cumulative average precip but it's only counting last week's precipitation.
    • eclectician20 minutes ago
      It is, and the subjective assessment component is a black box. That said, the USDM has many other components that are objective, so it's far from being a subjective measure -- I would argue that the Fed Funds rate, for instance, is determined far more subjectively.

      Also, there just isn't a more objective measure of drought out there, let alone a fully objective measure.

      Also also, it's unclear to me that this black box is being gamed any harder than most other black boxes in our system. If you want to game agriculture, you game the farm bill.

    • lelandfe2 hours ago
      And a lot of hard work, sounds like: https://droughtmonitor.unl.edu/About/AbouttheData/DroughtCla...

      > [Authors] bring together the physical climate, weather and hydrology data and reconcile that with local expert feedback, impact reports and conditions observations. The author is also responsible for weighing different indicators based on what’s most appropriate for a particular place and time of year. In the West, for example, winter snowpack has a stronger bearing on water supplies than in the East

      • HerbManican hour ago
        It also sounds like that old adage of - All models are wrong but some are useful. Alas, we probably only know how useful they where afterwards.
    • devindotcoman hour ago
      i think calling it "subjective opinion" is kind of disingenuous. it is a subject matter expert interpreting the data. there is a vast gulf between that and someone else simply offering their opinion on the matter.
      • Theodores31 minutes ago
        I worked in weather for TV as a technician and I was lucky enough to work with meteorologists. I thought they were high priests in the church of science, however, I detected a gambling mentality going on.

        I was just surprised at how subjective their work was, with differing opinions regarding the big picture depending on whom you asked and what their background was, as in university, whether they had worked for the navy or whether they had worked for the government.

        The big surprise of the gambling mentality reminded me of people that dedicate their lives to losing as much money as possible betting on horses. These people know the form, the weather and so much, yet they do their own bets.

        It was kind of the same when working out what the weather would be in Springfield tomorrow. Would it just be cloudy or actual rain? That would be a 'bet'.

        The next day the observations would come in and the meteorologists would either win or lose their 'bet'. The guy who has been to Springfield and knows the local geography well would have his own reasons for his 'bet', whereas the guy who was more interested in long term storm development would have another rationale for his 'bet'.

        Then there would be 'wrong all the time me', able to look at the low level cloud from contrails (which are really huge in some wavelengths on the satellite pictures) to assume rain every day.

        Hence climate and weather is highly subjective even if it is highly educated and vastly experienced professionals that are interpreting the data.

        • HerbManic10 minutes ago
          There is also the additional issue of computer models constantly chasing global changes. About 10-15 years back I used to talk with folks that worked on weather modeling and they were in a state of frustration in that as soon as they could make models that could work on older data sets to do reasonable predictions, the global weather patterns had change just subtly enough that it made them just kind of average on forward predictions.

          This was right before GPU compute started to become a big thing, I do wonder if they now use machine learning models on these to speed up model iteration? I would hope so, but even then there is the human factor as you said. Eventually someone has to make the call on what the data shows and how to present it to the world.

  • didgetmaster35 minutes ago
    I occasionally check out the map on the drought monitor website. The current map does not look significantly different than maps I have seen over the past 10 years.

    The areas of extreme drought may change each year, but the total area affected seems rather ordinary to me.

  • analog837421 minutes ago
    Dry here (southern IL). 12 years ago spring would be cool, drizzly, cloudy. Now (past 3 years) it's warm, dry, sunny. Periodically we get this big wind that lasts for a couple days.
  • postsantum27 minutes ago
    I hope people will not buy into that weird conspiracy theory about the destroyed weather radars in Iraq and its consequences
  • ericpauley2 hours ago
    Title is somewhat incorrect: more than 60% of the U.S. is facing drought, making it overall the worst in decades. The data do not show that the drought in each area is the worst in decades.
  • krackersan hour ago
    Whether or not it's true, this is going to be great fodder for the people who believe AI is using up all the water.
    • gerdesjan hour ago
      What are your thoughts on that?

      I hope to hear words like "bollocks" and "bullshit" dispersed equitably.

      • badosuan hour ago
        This might help you understand what should be the priorities for efficient water utilization (and reducing waste): https://www.construction-physics.com/p/how-does-the-us-use-w...
      • dyauspitr5 minutes ago
        Opposition to data centers is not only dumb and stupid, but it’s unpatriotic. China is already taking the lead on so many things. This would be like handing LLMs to them on a platter.
      • colechristensenan hour ago
        In California during their droughts restaurants wouldn't give you a glass of water unless you asked for it. Maybe there's some compromise between that and pumping groundwater for datacenter cooling.

        Plenty of places are using water faster than the aquifers they use regenerate. I hold no issue with banning using that limited freshwater resource for cooling.

  • helterskelteran hour ago
    In some places not strictly in drought the water cycle is still completely messed up. A few huge winter storms make up for lack of precipitation in the rest of the year and then promptly melts off. So the yearly average looks good on paper but it's dry as hell in summer/fire season with no snowmelt throughout the year.