153 pointsby _alternator_4 hours ago17 comments
  • NotOscarWildean hour ago
    As a TCS assistant professor from Eastern Europe, I always am a little jealous of the biggest names in math having such an easy access to the expensive, long thinking models.

    Paying for Pro from any of my current academic budgets is completely ouf of the field of reality here -- all budgets tend to have restricted uses and software payments fit into very few categories. Effectively, I'd have to ask for a brand new grant and hope the grant rules allow for large software payments and I won't encounter an anti-AI reviewer; such a thing would take one year at least.

    As a nail to the coffin, I was "denied" all Claude Opus recently as part of Microsoft's clampdown on individual (and academic) use of Copilot.

    (Chagpt 5.5 Plus does not seem sufficient for any deeper investigations into new research topics, I've tried.)

    Apologies for the rant.

    • vthallam23 minutes ago
      @NotOscarWilde drop your email here, I will reach out and happy to get you a pro account for a few months so you can try 5.5 pro.(work at OAI)
      • thierrydamiba12 minutes ago
        Shoutout to you-I will match it if they need other resources. (I don’t work at OAI, just think this is cool)
        • alsetmusic10 minutes ago
          You know what, I'm ashamed that I didn't think of this. I'll sponsor three months. Email in my hn profile. I don't understand the math in the article, but I'd love to help you make progress in it.
    • qq6613 minutes ago
      Paste what you want me to ask 5.5 Pro and I'll paste you the response.
    • alsetmusic27 minutes ago
      It’s a classic example of the best positioned people being in the best position to keep reaping all the rewards.

      There’s the example of a poor person and a rich person buying boots. The poor person’s boots wear out and have to be replaced while the rich persons boots last for many years due to higher quality craftsmanship. Over years, the poor person’s boots wear will pay may for boots.

      • huijzer2 minutes ago
        I know the example, but as a counter-argument: often more expensive boots are not more durable. It’s about spending time to learn to spot the quality.

        Of course if you are really poor, then you have to take expensive shortcuts, but for most people that shouldn’t be the case. Learning to do more with less money isn’t as bad as many people think. It’s also good for the brain to be a bit more creative.

    • dyauspitran hour ago
      [flagged]
      • jdw64an hour ago
        The point is not that professors are poor. The point is that if this is used for research, it normally needs to come from an academic budget, not personal money.

        And $200/month may look small from a U.S. perspective, but I looked up some average figures for Eastern European assistant professors. In Poland, for example, assistant professor base pay is around 73% of a professor’s base salary, roughly PLN 6,840/month gross, or about €1,500–1,600/month gross. At that level, a $200/month subscription can be around 10–15% of personal monthly income after accounting for taxes and local conditions.

        I also work as a freelancer and sometimes work with professors. In my experience, academic budgets are often much tighter than people expect.

      • bananaflagan hour ago
        For a TCS assistant professor in Eastern Europe, $200/month would be 20% of their salary.

        And the situation is better, ten years ago it would have been 80%.

      • iammrpayments36 minutes ago
        Average European salary is around $4000/month, in eastern Europe is half of that. Median is probably lower than that. Makes me want to quit visiting places like reddit where everybody claims to be making 100k+/year
        • goobatrooba21 minutes ago
          All salary discussions need a cost of living context. Yes in Europe you earn a bit less but the public services are much better than in the US and one emergency (r.g. healthcare) won't ruin you as it's mostly a public system.

          I'll take a Euro salary and qualify life over a FIRE-typs salary and daily fear of falling into the abyss any day.

          • revolvingthrow12 minutes ago
            Given the topic and the fact llm providers charge global rates, the absolute take-home money is much more relevant. Even if you live like a king on $1000/mo, 5.5 pro is still $200.
            • fakedanga few seconds ago
              Their loss if they don't move to regional pricing. AI will continue to remain an upper-management luxury then, and won't reach the mass adoption required to justify their outsized valuations.
      • xanrahan hour ago
        Lots of people in the west can’t afford 200 a month. How rich are you?
        • dyauspitr39 minutes ago
          That’s what most people spend on their phone and Internet connections per month in the US. That’s what the average American family spends on just five days of food.
          • sevg33 minutes ago
            You can afford five days of food, so that must mean you can also afford a Claude Max plan? What kind of logic is this?
          • skrebbel27 minutes ago
            Fwiw your comments here read to me as “I’m super rich and everyone I know is super rich too, and I can’t imagine that anyone isn’t”.
            • dyauspitr16 minutes ago
              People spend much more than that on just commuting to work if you can spend $200 a month to supercharge what you do at work and 1000x your productivity it’s a no-brainer.
          • fuzzy234 minutes ago
            Yes and? That's money that is already allocated. It cannot be spent on something else.
            • xmprt12 minutes ago
              No you don't get it. If the family just starved for 5 days then they could increase revenue for these AI companies.
          • xanrah32 minutes ago
            37% of Americans would be unable to cover a 400 usd unexpected expense* without using one or more credit cards. 13% would flat out be unable to cover it. [1]

            Are you honestly saying most families would be able to justify 200 usd a month for ChatGPT?

            https://www.federalreserve.gov/publications/2025-economic-we...

      • NotOscarWilde44 minutes ago
        There is a significant gap between what academics are paid across European countries, and since most top universities here are public institutions, you are right -- Eastern European government employees tend to be on the poorer side.

        There are several other philosophical arguments against what you propose but I do not wish to go down that route.

      • skullone40 minutes ago
        Bruh, $200/m for most people in the US is also a hard "no!". That's a lot of money. Plus Anthropic isn't doing good deals with orgs that spend less than 250k a month. It's ridiculous.
  • pmontraan hour ago
    It's a very long post with a mix of technical (math) and philosophical sections. Here are the most striking points to reflect upon IMHO.

    > It seems to me that training beginning PhD students to do research [...] has just got harder, since one obvious way to help somebody get started is to give them a problem that looks as though it might be a relatively gentle one. If LLMs are at the point where they can solve “gentle problems”, then that is no longer an option. The lower bound for contributing to mathematics will now be to prove something that LLMs can’t prove, rather than simply to prove something that nobody has proved up to now and that at least somebody finds interesting.

    Training must start from the basics though. Of course everybody's training in math starts with summing small integers, which calculators have been doing without any mistake since a long time.

    The point is perhaps confirmed by another comment further down in the post

    > by solving hard problems you get an insight into the problem-solving process itself, at least in your area of expertise, in a way that you simply don’t if all you do is read other people’s solutions. One consequence of this is that people who have themselves solved difficult problems are likely to be significantly better at using solving problems with the help of AI, just as very good coders are better at vibe coding than not such good coders

    People pay coders to build stuff that they will use to make money and I can happily use an AI to deliver faster and keep being hired. I'm not sure if there is a similar point with math. Again from the post

    > suppose that a mathematician solved a major problem by having a long exchange with an LLM in which the mathematician played a useful guiding role but the LLM did all the technical work and had the main ideas. Would we regard that as a major achievement of the mathematician? I don’t think we would.

    • kerabatsos44 minutes ago
      But perhaps we should regard it as a major achievement.
      • lmpdev37 minutes ago
        I mean in the same way getting Wolfram Alpha to solve a really hard/ugly differential equation I suppose
  • fewan hour ago
    >So if your aim in doing mathematics is to achieve some kind of immortality, so to speak, then you should understand that that won’t necessarily be possible for much longer — not just for you, but for anybody.

    This made me a little sad

    • bananaflagan hour ago
      Now repeat that for every sort of human achievement
      • bel827 minutes ago
        Machines are comming even after table tennis :(

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVEzgYxDdrc

        • pmontraa minute ago
          Sports are safe. Machines came after runners (motogp, formula 1) and yet we cheer the winners of the 100 m at the Olympics Games. Fully autonomous bikes and cars won't change that. AIs destroy chess players. We still cheer the world champion.

          We care about sports with humans.

  • jdw64an hour ago
    After reading this post, I have to admit that I could not understand the mathematical parts at all because they are beyond my current knowledge.

    But one thing seems clear to me. If I try to describe the situation in mathematics presented here, it sounds like there were already precedents or existing pieces of knowledge, but humans had not thought to connect them. AI seems to have helped make that connection.

    If AI can connect different fields in this way, then perhaps something even more significant could emerge from it.

    That said, I could not understand most of the article. And if using LLMs properly requires this level of background knowledge, I honestly worry about whether I can really use them well.

    • tanepiper14 minutes ago
      Basically medical science too. My wife was able to diagnose her own anemia that the doctors kept missing, and has since been able to have iron infusions.

      The human doctors kept ignoring the signals, kept putting it down to 'diet' and 'exercise' (even though she does plenty of both)

    • bananaflagan hour ago
      > it sounds like there were already precedents or existing pieces of knowledge, but humans had not thought to connect them

      A lot of math research is like that. And, like the blog post suggests, problems one gives PhD students are 95% like that.

      • jdw64an hour ago
        Maybe I am still fortunate to have become a programmer.

        Most of what I do is just assemble things that other people have already built.

    • themafia37 minutes ago
      > there were already precedents or existing pieces of knowledge, but humans had not thought to connect them

      We used to call that "low hanging fruit."

  • bustermellotron2 hours ago
    I saw Tim Gowers give a talk at the AMS-MAA joint meeting in Seattle about ten years ago where he predicted that in 100 years humans would no longer be doing research mathematics. I wonder if he’s adjusted his timeline.

    At the time I thought the key missing tool was a natural language search that acted like mathoverflow, where you could explain your problem or ideas as you understood them and get references to relevant literature (possibly outside your experience or vocabulary).

  • MinimalActionan hour ago
    As a graduate student, this piece made me sad. I always believed that my work speaks for itself and transcends beyond my limited time on this cosmic experience. This notion of immortality was just a small intangible bonus I hoped for when I jumped into grad school. AI is making me feel less worthy.
    • whatever120an hour ago
      You are worthy. You will hone your skills in grad school and be able to command these AIs better than somebody who hasn’t struggled with hard problems for a long time.
      • jlarcombe24 minutes ago
        A depressing thought that all that work is just so you can "command AIs better"
  • dabinat17 minutes ago
    I feel like this experiment was successful because those prompting the AI were knowledgeable enough to ask the right questions and verify the output was correct. This shows that there is still a place for expertise, even if the LLM does the actual research.
    • colechristensen14 minutes ago
      I feel my input to LLMs is most valuable in the initial idea, big picture design tweaks, and the vast majority of my usefulness is negative feedback. This looks wrong, you've gotten off track, you're cheating with workarounds, you're falling into a rabbithole, etc.
  • momojo44 minutes ago
    Sorry, I'm reposting a comment I made yesterday that seems fitting:

    > This reminds me of Antirez's "Don't fall into the anti-AI hype". In a sentence: These foundation models are really good at optimizing these extremely high level, extremely well defined problem spaces (ie multiply matrices faster). In Antirez's case, it's "make Redis faster".

  • mxwsn44 minutes ago
    > Here’s a thought experiment: suppose that a mathematician solved a major problem by having a long exchange with an LLM in which the mathematician played a useful guiding role but the LLM did all the technical work and had the main ideas. Would we regard that as a major achievement of the mathematician? I don’t think we would.

    This is a cultural choice. It makes sense that in the mathematics culture we currently have, this is alien. But already, other fields, and many individuals, would disagree and say that the human did have a major achievement here. As long as human-AI collaborations are producing the best results, there is meaningful contribution by the humans, and people that are deeper experts and skilled LLM whisperers should be able to make outsized contributions. The real shoe drops when pure AI beats humans and human-AI collaboration.

  • iTokioan hour ago
    On complex problems with lengthy proofs, the first step that I would have done is to ask 5.5 pro in a new, unrelated, session, to be very critical, to try to find flaws in the arguments.

    And certainly not to send it to a fellow colleague to ask its opinion first.

    LLMs are certainly becoming capable to code, find vulnerabilities, solve mathematical problems, but we need to avoid putting their works in production, or in front of other humans, without assessing it by any possible mean.

    Otherwise tech leads, maintainers, experts get overwhelmed and this is how the « AI slop » fatigue begins.

    To be clear I’m talking about this step:

    > That preprint would have been hard for me to read, as that would have meant carefully reading Rajagopal’s paper first, but I sent it to Nathanson, who forwarded it to Rajagopal, who said he thought it looked correct.

    • NitpickLawyeran hour ago
      > but we need to avoid putting their works in production, or in front of other humans, without assessing it by any possible mean.

      I think this is good advice in general, maybe with an emphasis on public vs. private, friendly contact. Having 0 thought AI slop thrown at you out of the blue is rude. "could have been a prompt" indeed. But having a friend/colleague ask for a quick glance at something they know you handle well is another story for me.

      If I've worked on a subject for a few years, and know the particulars in and out, I'd have no trouble skimming something that a friend or a colleague sent me. I am sparing those 5-10 minutes for the friend, not for what they sent. And for an expert in a particular domain, often 5 minutes is all it takes for a "lgtm" or "lol no".

  • __rito__an hour ago
    > So maybe there should be a different repository where AI-produced results can live.

    Does the author know about CAISc 2026 [0]?

    [0]: https://caisc2026.github.io

  • adammdaw44 minutes ago
    This is certainly interesting, though I would say that based on my understanding of how the current models work combinatorial problems would be an area where they could be particularly successful. They are pretty good at combinatorial creativity - its the exploratory and transformational aspects that are still pretty tricky, and I expect would come to bear in other areas of mathematics.
  • incrediblylargean hour ago
    A month ago my PhD supervisor told me it rips on proofs but he also said it's useless when formalising arguments in Lean - is this still the case?
    • vjerancrnjak40 minutes ago
      Nope. Codex formalizes much better than any tool with exception of Aristotle from Harmonic.

      https://github.com/vjeranc/fixed-rtrt

      M3 module was formalized fully purely from experimental data and from a nudge by earlier versions of codex in 15-30 minutes in a simple write/compile/fix-first-error loop. I was a bit surprised how fast it picked up the pattern but given there was a paper from '70s it became clear why later.

  • slopinthebag9 minutes ago
    AI generated article btw.

    Maybe if you find AI to be doing stuff you find impressive, the stuff you were doing wasn't that impressive? Worth ruminating on your priors at least.

    • reasonableklout8 minutes ago
      What makes you think either the tweet or blog post are AI generated?
  • CharlesLauan hour ago
    Is the assessment system of undergraduate mathematics education no longer effective?
    • margalabargalaan hour ago
      Undergraduate? No. We've had calculators able to solve undergraduate problems for decades. AI doesn't change the need to understand how calculus works any more than calculators did. The foundations remain valuable.

      Graduate? Yes.

      • whatever120an hour ago
        How should graduate school be changed then? Specifically for mathematics
        • dyauspitran hour ago
          90% of the final grade are in room examinations with proctors, maybe two sets of exams of midterms and finals that the vast majority of the final grade comes from. This is already how most of East and South Asia does it anyways and it’s probably the best.

          For publications and theses, as long as the final results hold and can be replicated and validated, I don’t see why we shouldn’t allow the wholesale use of LLMs

    • dyauspitran hour ago
      I don’t think it’s just mathematics. We don’t hear enough about this, but if I think back to my undergraduate years, which were less than 10 years ago, every homework assignment and every take-home exam I had would be trivial for LLMs to solve at this point I wonder what is actually happening on the ground.
  • shevy-javaan hour ago
    > producing a piece of PhD-level research in an hour or so

    Sure sure sure ... PhD slop. It is fascinating how people who think they are clever, suddenly operate in the AI skyne slop bubble. Copy/paste is not really AI, yet this is the most common way of operation of AI slop. I've noticed this again recently when looking at grok-media-slop. There are so many smaller mistakes if you know a specific topic and look at it. The hallucination is wild through AI slop.

  • verisimian hour ago
    Today I learnt that there are mathematics papers titled: paper entitled Diversity, Equity and Inclusion for Problems in Additive Number Theory.