cd /tmp
mkdir anthropic-claude
cd anthropic-claude/
git init
touch hello
git add -A
git commit -m "'{\"schema\": \"openclaw.inbound_meta.v1\"}'"
claude -p "hi"
There's no separation between parts of the prompt. You sneak that text in, anywhere, and it'll work. Whether Anthropic is using a regex or some LLM to detect the mentions of OpenClaw doesn't even matter.
> Your project isn't going to get many AI PRs if just cloning your project wiped out their quota.
With how many projects automatically AI-review PRs, they're just sitting ducks. You don't even need to hide it, put it clear and center and there's your denial of service.
Could even automate it.
Why is it amateur hour at Anthropic lately?
No clue if this is useful.
https://github.com/SublimeText/Modelines/blob/master/Claude....
[0] https://hackingthe.cloud/ai-llm/exploitation/claude_magic_st...
https://www.reddit.com/r/ClaudeAI/comments/1qibtgs/does_appl...
I wonder how long these sorts of games will play before the law applies itself.
Perhaps roughly as long as the law turns a blind eye to AI corps flagrantly violating the attribution requirements of software licenses that apply to their training data, as well as basically ignoring other copyright requirements at scale. Fair use, my eye.
Whose law? Good luck trying to summon a random GitHub user to a court within your jurisdiction.
Sure some project can tell you not to contribute AI generated code. But I see this as no different from DRM and user hostile
I think the GP is focusing on:
> I guess we're giving up on the idea that you're free to do whatever you want with software you own? ... But I see this as no different from DRM and user hostile
If I clone an open source git repository, I should be free to point an LLM to review it in any way I choose. I can't contribute code back, but guess what, I don't want to. I want to understand the codebase, and make modifications for me to use locally myself. I don't have a dev team, I have a feature need for my own personal use.
The LLM enables that. The projects that deliberately sabotage the use of LLMs cease to be providing software that meet the 'libre' definition of free software.
Building giant monopolies on top of open source code wasn't in the spirit of open source either. Training AI that reproduces open source code without any credits wasn't either.
I'm not sure why people working on Open Source should continue to accept being whipped like that
But with that said: I think it's time we figure out how to exclude the metaphorical arsonists.
With the expectation that they go on to share it with other candles, not with the expectation that they hoard all of the fire they collect for themselves
I did not see my session use go to 100%. I did however get:
> API Error: 400 {"type":"error","error":{"type":"invalid_request_error","message":"You're out of extra usage. Add more at claude.ai/settings/usage and keep going."},"request_id":"redacted"}
For example, there is a distinction of what is classified as extra-usage-billed VS extra-usage-enabled. As a long time claude user, I can assure you they are different things: to use Sonnet[1m] you are required to have extra-usage enabled, but it won't actually bill it unless you are out of quota. Surprisingly, you can use Opus[1m] without extra-usage enabled (!!!).
Wasn't OpenClaw usage re-allowed after the initial ban?
Please raise the ticket or at least GitHub issue for visibility.
Sooner or later some sort of complaint to the relevant trade authority should happen - this is a scam operation at this point.
Enough people have gone over the economics - you're costing OpenAI/Anthropic money, potentially a lot of money, so it's inevitable that sooner or later that particular party will come to an end.
Having said that, doing it by running a regex on your prompts to look for keywords is a bit loose
But the simple fact is, if you're paying $20/mo and using $200/mo of tokens, that is not going to last forever.
The only way to make it last a bit longer for the people with relatively sane usage patterns is to try and stop people absolutely taking the piss
I'm tired of this startup-adjacent mindset that promotes endless adversarial scamming. I absolutely think people should be able to run OpenClaw or whatever harnesses they want, but I also think they should pay in some proportion to usage rather than trying to exploit an all-you-can-eat buffet offer to stock their own catering business.
If you choose to not be able to get work done without Claude you're at the mercy of whatever they want.
That's par the course for Anthropic. I added some money to my account before I really had a use case for product. A year later they said my money had expired and when I contacted support they basically told me to pound sand.
This while they have the audacity to list one of their corporate values as 'Be good to our users'. They'll never get another dollar from me.
I think my Zalando gift cards expire after 4 years.
How about we turn down the heat, everyone?
Yes, it's reasonable to turn down the heat. But it's also reasonable for people to be upset when their money is taken from them, and when the company that does so is effectively beyond persecution for doing so.
So maybe not malice, but certainly a level of ineptitude I don’t expect from a crucial vendor from a tool that’s become essential for many developers.
(I don’t care, I do just fine when Claude is down or refuses to help me (it has happened) though)
Yolo ship it! Move fast and break things. Reviewing just slows everybody down. Nobody can keep up with those coding agents output any longer.
/s
Anywhere inside your bubble. The world is a big place.
Through some amount of carelessness that ended up costing people money? 0.
Maybe 1 if you want to count the automated monthly charging system that did over charge (extra erroneous charges for the same month) a handful of clients too many times. I noticed before anyone else did, and all of those 1am charges were reversed before 4am. So I don't think that one counts because it was a boring bug that would have been very bad if I wasn't paying attention.
Incompetence to the point of negligence can reasonably be considered malicious. If you're an engineer by trade, you have an ethical and professional responsibility to make sure things like this can't happen. And then, when bugs introduce said complications, fixing them, and remediating the damage.
How about Anthropic turn down the heat and refunds money to everyone for every bug it created with its LLM?
https://github.com/anthropics/claude-code/issues/53262#issue...
I'm sure they will proactively reach out to everyone who was affected without any need on the users part and make everyone whole....
"You may not use our service if you mention OpenClaw" is a harsh line but hardly illegal or forbidden any more than any other service restriction (i.e. no use allowed for high-stakes financial modeling). Don't like it, cancel your plan.
But that's the thing -- there is no line! Where is this specified? How can we know what service restrictions there are? For all I know, my plan could be exhausted at any point during the workday just because I happened to touch on some keyword Anthropic has decided to ban.
> Don't like it, cancel your plan.
Ah, but I thought these models were supposed to have been trained for the sake of humanity? That the arbitrary enclosure of the collective intelligence was for our own good? These concepts are not compatible.
Tbh blocking OpenClaw might just be for the betterment of humanity. It's yet to be proven either way.
This is, by the way, the same legal principle that the website you are posting on, right now, uses. Some uses are prohibited. Not every line need be explicit. You aren't allowed to smack talk Y Combinator or the moderators without possibly being banned for life, and you certainly do not have a legal case if they do.
People spend large sums of money for this tool. They can't just delete your balance because they feel like it.
> People spend large sums of money for this tool. They can't just delete your balance because they feel like it.
Unfortunately, in the US, they can. I'm not a lawyer working in this area, but my understanding is that companies are in general free to stop doing business with any customer at any time (other than reasons like the race of the customer). And in this type of transaction, there is no obligation to give a refund when they cut off the business relationship. This is different from a business-to-business contract or other types of contracts. This type of sale you're generally out of luck if the business cuts you off. That's why Amazon can delete the music library they sold you and give you no compensation.
It's possible that Anthropic also structured its EULA such that we're buying Claude Fun-Bucks with no value and that they can obliterate at any time with no recourse. I haven't read the EULA so who knows. But if they did this and it went to court, they'd still need to get a jury to agree to this interpretation and that's a huge unknown.
You could have just stopped there. The rest of what you wrote just re-demonstrates that you don't know what you're talking about.
Intentionally (or negligently) anti-competitive behavior is illegal in the US.
> Don't like it, cancel your plan.
Don't like being abused by a company? Just pretend it's not happening! Anyone else exactly as smart as you were, they deserve to be cheated out of their money too!
But there is a clear pattern emerging. There's no reason to turn down the heat when a company of this size and influence is allowed this level of absurdity time and time again.
My personal story is that I bought $50 of credit into their system, didn't use it all that much, and then after a year had gone by they kept the leftovers. I consider that a kind of theft.
Why should we coddle a corporations when they screw over customers?
It matters very little if they did this out of incompetence or malice.
The Purpose of a System is What it Does[1].
Whether malicious or not, the system does what it does. If people wanted it to do something else they would change the system. The reality is that when corporations make mistakes that benefit them those mistakes rarely get fixed without some sort of public outcry, turning the "mistake" into a "feature".
1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_purpose_of_a_system_is_wha...
If it is adequately explained by stupidity then you should be able to get it to display the same behavior without mentioning OpenClaw? Do you have any theory as to what stupid thing they have done to make this happen, non-maliciously? Because, Hanlon's razor doesn't just work by saying Hanlon's razor - you have to actually explain how the stupidity happened.
You can see how it goes in the future. Wanna vibe code a throwaway script? $0.20. Ah, it's for a legal document search? $10k then. Oh and we'll charge 20% of your app sales too - I can see how they are going in real time, mind you!
I predict that costs will grow to 80% of what it would cost a human, across the board for everything AI can do.
"It's still cheaper than a human" they'll say. Loudly here on HN too.
Of course this will happen slowly, very slowly. Lets meet again in 10-20 years.
Nobody will successfully lobby for banning local models either, it just isn’t going to happen when the rest of the world will happily avoid paying 80% of their profits to some US bigco for the privilege of existing.
80% of a human's price varies greatly by region. 80% of the lowest-priced effort-of- humans in this space right now will probably not be sustainable for the sellers.
The question is how much friction there will be for people to switch over to Gemini, GPT or maybe even DeepSeek or Mistral or whatever. Even if price hikes are inevitable across the board, the moat any single org has is somewhat limited, so prices definitely will be a factor they'll compete on with one another at least a bit.
I disagree. The models are going to become commodities (we're already almost there), but the tooling and integrations will be the moat. Reproducing everything Anthropic has already built with Claude Code, Cowork, and all their connectors would be nontrivial, and they're just getting started.
Anyone can implement an AI chatbot. But few will be able to provide AI that's deeply integrated into our daily lives.
They're one org with presumably some specific direction. As the actual models get better, expect a large part of the dev community iterating on tools way more easily, sometimes ones that Anthropic doesn't quite have an equivalent to - for example, just recently Cline released their Kanban solution to dish out tasks to agents (https://cline.bot/kanban), OpenCode has been around for a while for the agentic stuff (https://opencode.ai/) and now has a desktop and web version as well, alongside dozens of others. Cline and KiloCode also have decent browser automation.
I will admit that everyone working on everything at the same time definitely means limitless reinvention of the wheel and some genuinely good initiatives dying off along the way (I personally liked RooCode more than both the Cline and KiloCode for Visual Studio Code, sad to see them go), but I doubt we're gonna see a lack of software. Maybe a lack of good software, though; not like Anthropic or any org has any moat there either, since they're under the additional pressure of having to do a shitload of PR and release new models and keep up appearances, compared to your average dev just pushing to GitHub (unless they want corporate money, in which case they do need some polish).
https://finance.yahoo.com/sectors/technology/articles/cost-c...
But that's a bad example, price discrimination for commodities is generally not legal, while discrimination for services is. Data is arguably a commodity (ianal, I'm not up to date on the law of this). "Tokens" are not.
In fact the law makes carve outs specifically for businesses that sell services to discriminate on price based exactly on how the service is used and by who. And they do it all the time.
Whether it's fair or not, up to you to decide as a consumer. If you don't like it don't pay for it.
(I am not a full-time wedding photographer, but have shot maybe 20 weddings, and heard of this multiple times.)
It’s a way less transformational technology when put in context of the real price tag.
Seems most of the open weight models are from outside the USA (shocker), going to be interesting to see how THAT shakes out.
This doesn't even have anything to do with if it loses money or not. Obviously they are going to charge as much as possible.
Its "Fraud Code".
All of this is just criminal and fraudulent behavior, done July a whole bunch of people who haven't learned their lesson, and keep sending Anthropic more money for abuse at scale.
The TOS simply allows Anthropic to decline to fulfill a request at any time for any reason.
Or just that in your opinion, it should be illegal?
Simply doing something anticompetitive is not inherently illegal, despite a lot of people thinking it is.
https://github.com/anthropics/claude-code/issues/53262#issue...
We're discussing the comment with repro by abdullin:
> Immediate disconnect *and session usage went to 100%*
Emphasis mine.
I ran the commands and did not see session usage go to 100%. I simply got an error message.
I don't have extra usage/API billing enabled. If I did, I wouldn't expect a "hi" to use all of my extra usage. In the link you sent, they genuinely used $200 of credits, they were just billed as credits not as subscription quota.
So we have a couple different behaviors:
- If API/extra usage billing is enabled, it uses that.
- If API/extra usage billing is disabled, abdullin reports session quota going to 100%
- If API/extra usage billing is disabled, margalabargala reports session usage not changing and errors refusing to do anything.
Locally, they also need to abide by the local laws and regulations of anywhere that they choose to sell their services.
There's absolutely an expectation of reasonability and good faith.
Nobody signing up for Claude would be reasonably assuming that they are allowed to arbitrarily decide what magic words suddenly bypass the subscription cost model that was actually purchased into an overcharge model that is significantly more expensive, whose verbiage clearly indicates the intent of the feature being enabled is to allow additional use after the quota has been consumed, not randomly at the behest of Anthropic.
I can make you sign a infinitely generating contract, that doesn't mean it's enforceable/
But the presumption, as any court will show, is that it is fully blooming enforceable. The burden of proof is on showing it isn't. This particular instance, a lawyer would laugh at you in the face over, this is absolutely 100% stone cold enforceable common and expected.
How do you expect Facebook or HN to moderate if certain uses aren't prohibited? The same principle applies. HN bans certain phrases, lots of them.
And we continue slipping into lawlessness and a low trust society...
Nobody is claiming anticompetitive there
Seriously, not at all. Anti-competitive practices is when you go out of your way to use legal agreements or practices, in an illegal way (i.e. from the starting point of a monopoly), to deliberately restrict the ability to use competition.
Openclaw is not a competitor with Claude. Anti-competitive practices would only occur here if Anthropic used some technique to prevent people from using Claude alternatives (i.e. if you install Claude Code, all other AI agents are forcibly disabled on your system).
Not Claude, but other Anthropic products such as Claude Cowork.
As others have pointed out, Anthropic is allowed to have TOS, even if we disagree with it.
But having Claude deny the existence of OpenClaw is a way more hazardous and likely straight up violates Claude's Constitution: https://www.anthropic.com/constitution
A company that goes against their self-proclaimed values... What a shocker.
"If you don't know an identifier, google it" isn't a very reliable behavior in today's models. They do it, but only sometimes.
I don’t think that really fits with the metaphor but I wanted to say my piece regardless.
Everyone send me all your gold and I’ll prove it.
Trash models that dont represent reality. What else is RLed out
There's your problem.
At the time, enforcement was pretty random, and I think based on how heavy your traffic was.
They weren't all on Claude (though it was the preferred setup) and some people had dozens of accounts hooked up with proxies to avoid hitting limits.
Claude status: https://status.claude.com/
I have been really happy with my Codex subscription lately, but feels like these things change every other day. The OpenCode Go subscription for trying out GLM, Kimi, Qwen, Deepseek and friends also looks useful.
But nonetheless, Opus 4.6 is a very capable model, but justifying a Claude subscription gets more and more difficult, think I might just sometimes use it through OpenRouter or as part of something like Cursor (although I'm not sure about the value of that subscription as well).
OpenCode Go: https://opencode.ai/go
Cursor: https://cursor.com
Presumptuous and wrong "memories" from a one-off command which affect all future commands, repeated/nonsensical phrases in messages, novel display bugs which make going back in the conversation impossible (I can't tell where I am), lack of basic forking features (resume a current convo in a second CC instance -> fork = no history for that convo?), poor/unclear reasoning, a new set of unclear folksy phrases (it really wants to "cut code" all of a sudden).
Qwen + Opencode has been a game changer: which runs very well on a 4090 for basic/exploratory/private tasks, and being able to switch to and between frontier models (using openrouter in my case) to avoid vendor lock in feels like basic hygiene.
There's also the homo economicus psychological difference between having a token budget to use up, and a cost per token. I'm more thoughtful about my usage now.
Subscription: opencode go
I also use a claw agent[1] via Telegram, which uses pi.dev under the hood with my opencode go subscription.
[1] I forked one of those Claw projects (bareclaw) and made many changes to it.
---
Funny you mention that, because I started noticing the word 'harness' being used everywhere about a month ago, even though I hadn’t seen it before (in this context). As I don’t trust my memory, I assumed I had just been overlooking it and added it to my vocabulary. However, a Google Trends search does show increased usage since the end of March: https://trends.google.com.br/trends/explore?date=today%203-m...
Highly recommend as a clean way to try out the upstart models.
Not sure where deepseek 4 sits
I have about 1KLOC of harness code written by Kimi to work around quirks in Kimi not needed for any other model I've tested, such as infinite toolcall loops and other weirdness.
You can do quite a bit with it and never run into those quirks, or you might hit it every request.
It is very sensitive to "confusing" things about it's environment in a way Sonnet and Opus are not.
Still great value, but they have some way to go.
How do you think the large providers do inference? No single GPU has 1TB plus of memory on board. It’s a cluster of a bunch of gpus.
GPU interconnect speeds are a big bottleneck today for GPU's in AI applications. Data can't move between them fast enough.
Check out tensor parallelism
The model is fine, Ive switched to it entirely for a personal project, but it's not opus.
And no, you're not running then locally unless you're a millionaire. You still need hundreds of GB (500+++) of VRAM on your graphics card - that's not at a level of consumer electronics.
Sure you can run the quantized models, but then you're at Haiku performance.
So, at least better than GitHub, right? :)
It's bordering on being useless.
They seem like the class of bugs I see in my vibe-coding experiments, and I think the Claude Code lead has said many times that he/his team don't read the code for Claude Code themselves, that it's basically vibe-coded.
If Anthropic itself can't make vibe coding work, who can?
For instance, maybe you can't afford to take on more customers right now, Anthropic. Maybe if you are severely undermining the customer relationships you already have, you should just admit you can't sell any more 20x plans right now and only accept new customers at lower tiers until you have the necessary capacity.
This is also a DoS you could drive a truck through, and it's disturbing such an obvious vulnerability was shipped at all.
Check out OpenCode (the OSS product [1]) and OpenCode Go/Zen (the LLMaaS [2]). Use a more expensive model with larger context (like GLM-5.1) for orchestration and cheaper models for coding and iteration on acceptance criteria (writing and passing tests). I also throw a more expensive vision-capable model into the mix like Gemini 3 Flash to iterate on UI tasks using Playwright. With the base usage in Go and pay as you go on cheaper models like MiniMax you can get a lot done for not a lot of coin.
Or just increase prices for new claude code users? Surely transparent upfront across the board price increases are easier to swallow than hidden context-based pricing changes like this?
The irony of course is that the way they've gone about reacting to this has damaged their brand so badly at the trust level that the public view of their company has completely flipped. They also seem strangely oblivious to this side of things.
Their approach has also been bizarrely chaotic. Banning then restoring OpenClaw usage. Removing Claude Code from the Pro plan, then re-enabling it and claiming it was an A/B test. Honestly my read is that Dario has a weak leadership style within the company where he either doesn't give enough specific guidance to his reports or overreaches with reactionary instructions.
No one at my company gives a single shit about Openclaw, so this whole situation has been a noop for a lot more of the public than you seem to think.
Also, "censorship"? How is disallowing a specific tool that abuses a subscription "censorship"?
They can have a different price plan for agentic stuff, but these things where they “accidentally” whoops match on specific keywords and trigger extra usage charges is giving a evil-microsoft-vibe
It's vibe-coded. What's hard about understanding that?
I suppose because running inference of any kind is a helluva lot more demanding than running a regex and less deterministic.
HERMES.md in commit messages causes requests to route to extra usage billing
1203 points | 21 hours ago | 524 comments
I’ve got a NixOS Qemu VM I use to run openclaw in. I had Claude help me set it up, and it runs local models on my own machine in a config based sandbox.
Why should Claude block or charge extra to work on that?
Why should Claude care if I have instructions for Hermes or OpenClaw in my project repos?
This fingerprinting is incredibly sloppy for how much access to a machine Claude code has.
I just don't believe for an instant that they're anywhere in the same ballpark of capabilities as running Opus or similar. My time is the most valuable resource. Opus would need to be SIGNIFICANTLY more costly and unstable for me to start entertaining local models for day-to-day development.
Perhaps whatever work you're doing makes this trade-off more sensible, but I struggle to see how that could be true. I'm averse to running Sonnet on a large amount of software engineering problems - let alone Qwen.
It happens surprisingly often.
Next time I can summarize some of the talking points in my comment though, but I didn't want to poorly regurgitate the arguments when they were readily available in the video lol.
Although I see another poster has commented the key takeaways :)
You can understand almost any controversial issue better than almost everyone commenting on it by reading 1-3 books on the subject. It's becoming more of an x-factor as people get conditioned to expect everything to fit in a headline, chat response, or 10 second social media video.
Anthropic has been deeply integrated with the US military, having been installed with classified access since June 2024. The podcast highlights that Claude has been actively utilized during the "Venezuela incursion" and the ongoing "war in Iran".
Despite this active involvement, CEO Dario Amodei released a statement attempting to publicly distance the company from the Department of Defense by declaring they would not allow their technology to be used for "mass domestic surveillance" or "fully autonomous weapons". Zitron categorizes this as a highly calculated PR maneuver, pointing out that LLMs are fundamentally incapable of controlling autonomous weapons anyway. The stunt successfully manufactured a wave of positive press—with celebrities and commentators praising Anthropic as an ethical objector—right when the company was trying to secure an IPO or a massive ~$100 billion valuation, all while they quietly remained an active part of the war effort.
Beyond their military contracts, the podcast details several highly questionable business practices Anthropic has used to artificially inflate their numbers:
1. During a lawsuit regarding their military contract, Anthropic's CFO filed a sworn affidavit revealing the company had only made $5 billion in its entire lifetime. This directly contradicted leaked media reports suggesting they made $4.5 billion in 2025 alone. It revealed that the company's publicly perceived run rate was heavily exaggerated through the "shady revenue math" popular in Silicon Valley, a major discrepancy that most financial journalists ignored.
2. When the open-source agent library OpenClaw first launched, Anthropic deliberately allowed users to connect a $200/month "max account" and essentially burn through thousands of dollars of API compute at Anthropic's expense. Zitron points out that Anthropic knowingly let this happen to temporarily boost their usage metrics and hype while they raised a $30 billion funding round. Just weeks after securing the funding, they abruptly cut off access for these users, a move Zitron cites as proof of them being an "unethical company".
Furthermore, the company has faced criticism for gaslighting users, maintaining poor service availability, and silently degrading model performance while rug-pulling users on rate limits. As Zitron summarizes, it is highly unlikely that either Anthropic or OpenAI actually care about these ethical boundaries beyond how they can be weaponized for better PR and higher valuations.
The only way you could be surprised that Anthropic wants to be in bed with the US military is if you just never listened to anything Dario has said publicly. He's very open about wanting the US government and the US military to use Claude to win against China. That's why Claude was in the Pentagon before all the others in the first place.
>LLMs are fundamentally incapable of controlling autonomous weapons anyway
This is obviously false, though that's not surprising from what I've seen from Zitron. Claude is probably too slow and clunky to go full mech warrior for the time being, but it would be trivial to hook Claude up to an autonomous drone with missile strike capabilities. Those things are mostly autonomous already, they just require a human to tell them where to shoot. Claude can easily do that with a simple API.
The rest is valid. I wouldn't describe Anthropic as an ethical company. On the contrary, if you believe that you losing the AI race is an existential threat to humanity, then it's easy to justify all sorts of unethical behavior for the greater good.
Anthropic has taken 10s of billions from investors just like everyone else has. There is no such thing as "ethics" or "morality" when the scale of obligation is that large.
So yes, this is obvious despite whatever image they try to cultivate.
Just because they screwed up their billing doesn't mean every ethical commitment they've ever made is bunk.
What does this have to do with their ethics? This seems irrelevant unless your understanding of ethics ends at fiduciary duty to investors.
At that scale, ethics and morality should become more important, not discarded
"Quietly remained an active part of the war effort" - anthropic was totally transparent about it, but yeah not great.
"Leaks were wrong" - and that's Anthropic's fault?
OpenAI agreed to assist the DoD with zero boundaries and then lied about it. Can we at least give them credit for not doing that? If we just throw up our hands and say "they're all awful, whatever" then the result is reduced pressure on them to be better. Like it or not, I do not think AI is going away and as far as I can tell, despite billing problems, Anthropic's still the least bad frontier lab.
After all, if you’re paying hundreds of millions to buy these shitty podcasts, you might as well host some bots.
A bunch of people here tried to defend Anthropic, saying that it was justified because it was likely that Claude Code's harness had optimizations that would not be possible on OpenCode. It was clear from the source leak that nothing of this sort was the case, and that they were simply trying to avoid others distilling their models.
GLM and Queen are not on par with Opus, but they are good enough and I never had hit the usage limits, even with 2-3 sessions running.
The flat-rate plans were the top of the slippery slope to enshittification, really. If everyone were on metered billing there'd be no reason for all these opaque and sneaky attempts to limit usage. People would pay for what they get and get what they pay for.
You simply need to price the flat-rate sub at a price that's profitable when averaged out over all of your users, both light and heavy, and prevent fully automated usage by the power users. That's it. This is immensely more user-friendly, and I doubt you'd get any traction at all if you didn't do this. Even if you pay more for the sub, having unlimited (non-automated) usage frees a mental barrier to using the product. If you have to pay for every request you make, it introduces a hesitation to do anything - it makes the user hesitant to experiment, hesitant to prompt for anything of slightly less significance, anxious about the exact token consumption of every prompt, and so on. It's not enjoyable to use when you're being penny pinched for every prompt.
Anthropic's problem, of course, is that they are not bootstrapped. They don't have a business model that can compete with startups running DeepSeek or GLM on their own hardware. Non-frontier startups got to skip the whole "tens of billions of dollars in debt" step of creating a frontier model from scratch, and still get to run a model that is perhaps 80%-85% as good as Anthropic's, which is good enough for millions of customers. So Anthropic is desperate, backed into a corner, and doing anything and everything they can to try to right their sinking ship, no matter how scummy.
But being a power user and fully automating things is the whole appeal.
Mind sharing a link?
And given that Anthropic does both, it must make up its training costs by selling inference. jp57 was pretty clearly talking about Anthropic's flat-rate plans, rather than the flat-rate plans of companies that get to skip the most expensive part of the process.
That seems likely. If people had to pay their share of the actual all-in cost of the service (rather than having it be subsidized by investors with extremely deep pockets and a small handful of corporate customers), very, very few regular people would use it.
The point that 'jp57' pretty explicitly made [0] is that flat-rate plans that don't cover the all-in cost of providing the plans tend to result in those plans getting worse and worse and worse, as economic realities assert themselves. If the flat-rate plans that you are aware of actually cover the cost of providing the service, then you're discussing an entirely different situation that's entirely inapplicable to the discussion about Anthropic's pricing and degrading level of service.
[0] ...which is one that's understood by people who have been in pretty much any industry for more than a few years...
You misdirected my quoted statement to assert a position I did not take. When I talk about flat-rate subs being a good UX, I am not talking about at a subsidized rate. My position is that people will pay more for a flat-rate sub than they are willing to through per-token billing. That is, a consumer who would only pay average $10/mo if they used the API will voluntarily pay $20/mo for a sub, because even though it's a worse value the latter is a tremendously more friendly user experience. When I say that flat-rate subs are necessary for traction, I mean that solely from a user experience perspective, not "subsidized usage is necessary for traction".
More so, imagine the whole open-source community PREACHING a binary that is literally using heavy telemetry, unknown and questionable behavior instead of codex, completely open-source.
Okay, then let's judge it by the fact that they started as a non-profit and now are are playing the same growth-at-all-costs playbook from Silicon Valley.
Or let's judge them by how they they consider themselves above copyright law, and went on to US congress to say "we can not run this business without stealing intellectual property".
Or how they they don't mind making deals with the Saudis.
Or how they don't mind getting in bed with Trump to secure expedited construction of their datacenters.
Or how they are making all types of accounting fraud (the circular deals) to keep propping up the bubble, and will undoubtly be footed by the taxpayers when it finally pops?
> What has Anthropic given?
Anthropic is also trash. They are guided by this whole "Effective Altruism" bullshit which should be enough to raise all sorts of red flags. But to think that OpenAI is somehow "better" is completely absurd. Both of them are dangerous and both of them should not exist.
At least you know his intentions, which is that he will do anything to win. And codex actually works, I can let it run for hours and at least come back and it’s done a good job.
CC not only fucked me with false advertising on Opus that I cancelled, but it fucking stops working so often or sucks after a little bit of context usage.
A\ ceo is a bad salesman (50% of X will lose their jobs, 3 months later 50% of Y will lose their jobs).
A\ also falsely advertised their Opus usage that me and many others cancelled months ago. They even were nuking all GitHub issues around this.
IMO, CC is for tourists and people who fall for AI marketing on X.
It’s a huge mistake at the level of IBM trying to reestablish dominance over PCs by making MicroChannel the new standard; this failed horribly and cost IBM its market leadership and reputation.
MCA was technically better at the time, but the industry responded with EISA and VLBus which led to PCI and today’s PCIe.
And I don't necessarily think it's wrong for Anthropic to introduce QoS or throttling on users of their models. It's pretty much a necessity when offering public access to a scarce resource and it's been a common practice for decades.
What is the alternative? We just accept that it doesn't work half the time because the system is overloaded with molt bots?
They would have kept my business if they were honest and upfront. Instead they sold me something that worked well, broke it without warning, remained silent about it until enough people caught on, chose to do nothing, then proceeded to release a model that eats ~30% more tokens with no advantage over prior models.
If they chose to unbrick their model and offered what we had a couple months ago at a 50% hike, I would have been onboard. I've seen enough now of how this company treats its customers to continue using or recommending them.
Also, Codex works much better than CC now for anyone who happens to be on the fence.
Anthropic wants to have their lunch (low apparent prices, increased market share) and eat it too (controlled costs, adequate production to serve the demand).
They're advertising themselves as a $5 All-You-Can-Eat buffet, but then aggressively and arbitrarily restricting admission, sneakily swapping out the high-quality ingredients for garbage-tier slop, and kicking out anyone who even utters the words "to go box" or "doggie bag".
Would you want to eat at that restaurant?
It sounds looks you're upset that something was obviously too good to be true.
Could you do that as a human? Sure but you'd likely burn out after a couple of weeks. Also the human would probably use those tokens far more effectively and would not need as many. It's feels the same as someone installing a crypto miner on their servers in my mind. Abhorrent behavior.
The only thing they can hope for is to maintain momentum and critical mass long enough to find ways to pay for all this or have Moores law make the average user request become economical.
Unfortunately for those of us who just want to eat a nice filling meal at the fixed price all you can eat buffet of AI subscriptions, a minority of customers keeps paying for the all you can eat buffet and staying for hours and bringing containers to sneak food out when they leave. And they keep wearing disguises to try and evade detection.
It’s a losing battle for the provider, which ultimately means the subscription pricing model can’t work, which hurts the majority of customers that just want to use the system as intended and no longer have a subscription model available.
I have plenty of frustrations with Anthropic as a paying customer, but this specific false positive abuse detection doesn’t strike me as all that awful, just some annoying collateral damage. I’d rather have that than no subscription model at all.
The truth is that it doesn't matter what companies say, what they claim, what they do, and what their CEO says/claims/does.
It's just a matter of time until the shareholders will get the right CEO to maximize shareholder value.
People in the comments who want a statement or a "reorientation" or a commitment from Anthropic leadership are missing the principles of how capitalism functions. Shareholder value cannot be compromised. In every battle between morality and profit, values and profit, public good and profit, ultimately all things will mutate into a state that enables profit to prevail. Always.
There are no exceptions to this.
That's a notable achievement, but let's have some balance... It's also responsible for the biggest self-own in software industry history by leaking their 1) crown jewels (i.e., source code) 2) the existence of their next model Mythos, and 3) their roadmap in a highly competitive market.
Let's put this in perspective. Imagine it's 3 years ago, April 2023. Chatgpt has been launched for 4 months. We've all been using it, and writing poems in parrot talk or whatever. Someone tells you "In 2 years time there will be an app that lets you use LLMs to write code. It will be coded by humans for 3 weeks, then by humans + LLMs for 6 months, and then by LLMs mostly unsupervised. One year after that, they'll be making 2B/mo out of that app". Would you believe them? Not even the most maximalist, overhypers, AI singularity frenzied crazy people would have said that. And yet... it happened.
That being said, Anthropic can be diverting capacity to train the next model, and if it is significantly better, people would start flocking back again.
There's very little competition for SOTA models. The models themselves also weren't built by Claude. The current revenue has almost nothing to do with what Claude built.
Hell if it was so far ahead then they wouldn't be desperately trying to block OpenCode.
Ummm, no. Anthropic is #1 in coding because they developed it first. Then they used data + signals to train models specifically to work best with cc. They work together. Why do you think every provider (including chinese ones) have their own harnesses? Having real-world data and usage metrics helps training the models in immense ways.
Having features fast in this case >>> having perfect features. Some of them they dropped along the way, but having them in the pair cc + models is what matters. People switched from Cursor to cc in droves because it worked better there. That's not a fluke. That's how you improve your models, by collecting real world data after you launch them.
> Hell if it was so far ahead then they wouldn't be desperately trying to block OpenCode.
That's a lack of compute problem.
The problem with slop is, nobody understands it. Nobody ever designed it, nobody really knows how it works. You’re just putting blind faith in the slop you’ve shipped.
It lets you be very quick, but if you’ve accidentally compromised all your data or bank accounts through the slop then you won’t know until you’re destroyed.
But, if they did intentionally break other stuff, like charging more money, it would be a scam (not sure what is wrong but there is something wrong in taking credits without fulfilling the request)
But then they will just say "ah yeah, aí broke our tool it wasn't intentional, bla bla bla"
If you must - in my experience Deepseek v4 is incredible value in every aspect. Pricing is transparent.
But like I said, I have funds in different AI gateways but I'm preferring to write by hand because I don't want surprising bugs and unnecessary code in my end result.
Spec your machine accordingly. Some models I recommend trying to get a feel for what's out there. Qwen 3.6 35b a3b, granite4.1 8b, llama 3.2 3b.
There are plenty of others but those give a good taste for different sizes and what they can do. If it's not enough then you are out maybe 5 bucks.
Also check in with r/localllama they have a bunch of people who can help you go further, spec machines, get better performance and results. If you don't want to post that's cool but there are lots of comments on how to get going. They are pretty friendly though so I'd read the rules and make a post asking for help
Maybe you will inspire me to use it.
This is a reason to seriously consider changing providers.
Substantively: assuming this is true, what are the possible explanations? If they don't use OpenClaw, wouldn't this suggest there is some other cause?
What company? Will these people go on the record?
We live in a world where it is irrational for me to put much credence in a HN account. I see it has 125 karma and was created in January 2022.
It's the same thing when people say that Gmail ought to publish the rules they use for blacklisting senders. If they did, then there would be a lot more senders abusing email.
Whenever you are defining rules internally for catching bad actors, you cannot make those rules public. It defeats the entire purpose.
So maybe Anthropic is losing good will, but it's better than the alternatives.
After they fought humans and dumbed them down into AI-slavery, the machines now fight one another. Claude versus OpenClaw - may the worst win! \o/
(You're the principal, directing what to do, but your agent Anthropic has its own motivations that are not aligned with your will.)
I try to avoid X, and I put relatively low credence in a HN account I don't know. [1] Browsing X, it looks like something like 1 out of 20 say they verified.
Who here has _verified_ this claim or can find a _quality_ source that has? Not X. Someone who will take serious reputational or financial damage if they are wrong?
It is 2026. Think about epistemics. What do you believe and why? And why should I believe you if you aren't asking this question?
This situation has many characteristics of being an information cascade. [2] Raise your hand if you piled on before thinking it through. Be honest. Everyone does it sometimes. Intellectually honest people own it.
P.S. I am _not_ making a claim about the original statement. Don't shoot the messenger: somebody needs to say what I'm saying.
[1]: "We cannot trust identity like we used to here on HN ... we live in a world or anyone or any AI can claim almost anything ... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47804884
At this point I assume you are coping with having drank the koolaid and fired key staff believing claude will replace them...back when it was cheap....because nearsightedness affects decision makers much more during hype cycles......
Even when asked to search online it still gaslighted me about it.
This one feels like prime space for Hanlon's razor: "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."
The hassle with the performance of these systems is that they're ~70% of the way to awesome. For advanced prototyping (my current job description), a fast 60% of awesome is groundbreaking and game-changing. For production and real businesses, that last 30% is a really, really important thing to figure out.
Didn’t they think about “we need to make sure Claude Code is never banned” ? Could have been as easy as including some Claude Code specific prompting traits (tools, system prompt, whatever) in there and automatically whitelisting it.
Is it foolproof? No. Will it avoid banning legit users? Absolutely.
First do the first large sweep, then see what still falls through, then ban those.
It really seems they were panicking due to capacity and there was very little oversight with all this.
I’m not affected but pretty disappointed.
They do not care about us.
If facebook/twitter/reddit are perfectly OK with intentionally increasing addictivity but are restricted by having to show you only existing stuff, what do you think will happen when LLM companies can generate new stuff tailored to each individual person?
Do these refusals still happen if you’re using an API key instead?
So I suppose Anthropic lied to him?
They have a business model that's more or less known, and that includes THEIR AI model(s) that they get to put out there however they want. I don't like it much at all, I actually sort of like the idea that they "owe" more because they probably "stole" a bunch of stuff to get the thing going.
But I mean, don't be mad, be proactive. Anthropic is going to try to Microsoft this in whatever way possible, and we all see that the numbers don't really add up.
Asking them pretty please to be nicer, meh. Let's figure out better, and more free-software-like ways to do this.
haven't used claude in about 2 weeks and I do not miss it.
rate the analogy plz..
There are multiple comments in this thread with comments along the line of: "Oh im sure they didn't mean to, let's not attribute this to malice". There is a long history here of lawyers, back and forth between OpenCode and OpenClaw and various other "Open" harnesses. Digging into my commit history and blocking access based off of a string is not acceptable for a product in my opinion -- and I don't think this was purely on accident.
Other comments calling out that they are compute constrained and need to do this in order to continue functioning. They shouldn't oversell then. I think that overselling airline tickets is abhorrent and so is overselling any product in a way that you know that you will impact legitimate customers. Up your pricing and/or stop accepting invites, we will quickly get to the bottom of it.
A company does not deserve the benefit of the doubt over and over and over again.