45 pointsby senaevren2 hours ago19 comments
  • jhbadgeran hour ago
    This is of course assuming you take AI-generated code unchanged. But you don't, in my experience. And that generates a new work fully copyrightable even if the original wasn't. Just like how the fad a decade or so ago of taking Tolstoy and Jane Austen works and adding new elements -- "Android Karenina" and "Sense and Sensibility and Sea Monsters" are copyrighted works even if the majority of the text in them was from public domain sources.
    • FartyMcFarteran hour ago
      The article addresses this explicitly:

      > Works predominantly generated by AI without meaningful human authorship are not eligible for copyright protection

      Note the word "predominantly", and the discussion that follows in the article about what the courts and the copyright office said.

      • wongarsuan hour ago
        Skimming over the article, it's a lot about what the copyright office said and very little about what courts said. But the opinion of the copyright office doesn't have any legal force. Regulations passed by the copyright office would be binding, but their opinions are just opinions. We will have to wait until relevant court cases reach a conclusion. And so far running litigation isn't even about that question, it's about infringing the rights of works that are in the training data
    • Luker88an hour ago
      No such assumption is made in the article.

      Nor does it give a single answer.

      Mere prompting is still not enough for copyright, and the problem is unsolved on how much contribution a human needs to make to the generated code.

      In the case for generated images copyright has been assigned only to the human-modified parts.

      Even worse, it will be slightly different in other nations.

      The only one that accepts copyright for the unchanged output of a prompt is China.

      • ModernMech38 minutes ago
        Here's a question I have: if the AI generated image is of a character of which you own the IP, don't you have protections based on the character regardless of who gets copyright protections from authorship of the image?
    • brianwawokan hour ago
      You use humans to edit AI code? When you level up you are just using AI to write, AI to review, AI to edit, AI to test. Not a lot of steps left for meat bags.
      • mathgeekan hour ago
        You're forgetting that you need coffee/tea/mate to fuel the button pushers. The Jetsons predicted this decades ago.
      • ModernMech32 minutes ago
        AI to write - code is buggy and not what I asked for

        AI to review - shallow minutia and bikeshedding

        AI to edit - wrote duplicated functions that already existed

        AI to test - special casing and disabling code to pass the narrow tests it wrote

        AI report - "Everything looks good, ship it!"

      • gchamonlivean hour ago
        AI for review is terrible, and by no fault of their own. It's our job to specify and document intention, domain and the right problems to solve, and that is just hard to do. No getting around it. That's job security for us meat bags.
    • conartist6an hour ago
      I'm sure it's not quite that simple. Only parts the parts of those knock-off works that aren't public domain could be copyrightable. If you only own the copyright to ten lines in a 10k line codebase, then it's probably fair use for someone else to just to take them.

      Plus what if Anna Karenina was GPL?

    • gchamonlivean hour ago
      > This is of course assuming you take AI-generated code unchanged.

      How much code do you need to change in order for it to be original? One line? 10%? More than 50%?

      That's arbitrary and quite unproductive convo to be honest.

      • ninkendo43 minutes ago
        > That's arbitrary and quite unproductive convo to be honest.

        Yeah but that’s what the legal system ostensibly does. Splitting fine hairs over whether a derived work is “transformative” is something lawyers and judges have been arguing and deciding for centuries. Just because it’s hard to define a bright red line, doesn’t mean the decision is arbitrary. Courts will mull over whether a dotted quarter note on the fourth bar of a melody constitutes an independent work all day long. It seems absurd, but deciding blurry lines are what courts are built to handle.

    • throwatdem12311an hour ago
      Ok what about all the Anthropic’s engineers who say they don’t write code at all and it’s 100% AI-generated?
  • jugg1esan hour ago
    I want this question to have an interesting answer, but everyone knows that if this question ever goes to the courts, ownership will go to the people in charge with the money. The idea that Anthropic may not own Claude Code just because Claude wrote it is wishful thinking.
    • senaevren24 minutes ago
      The work-for-hire doctrine actually supports your intuition more than the AI authorship question does. The reason Anthropic likely owns Claude Code has little to do with whether Claude wrote it and everything to do with the employment contracts of the engineers who directed it. The DMCA takedown question is genuinely interesting though because DMCA requires the claimant to assert copyright ownership in good faith. If a court later found the codebase was predominantly AI-authored and therefore not copyrightable, the 8,000 takedowns could be challenged as bad faith DMCA claims. That is a different and more tractable legal question than the ownership one.
    • embedding-shapean hour ago
      Best part is, it's likely to have a different answer in every country, who knows what'll happen, not every country implicitly sides with the ones with the most money.
    • conartist6an hour ago
      It's not wishful thinking, and ownership isn't a foregone conclusion.

      Sure the courts could mint a communist society with a few weird decisions about property rights, but this being the US do you really suppose that's likely?

      There's really no legal question of any kind that models aren't people and therefore cannot own property (and also cannot enter into legal contract as would be required to reassign the intellectual property they don't and can't own)

      • wongarsuan hour ago
        The catch-22 is that the fact that models aren't people is only relevant if you treat them similar to a person. Like the US Copyright Office's opinion which treats it similar to a freelancer. If you treat the LLM as a machine similar to a camera, with the author expressing their existing intent through the tools of this machine, ownership is back on the table and more or less how it was before LLMs.
        • conartist638 minutes ago
          Well if the camera in addition to choosing autoexposure also decided how to frame the shots, which lens to use, where to stand, and everything else salient to the artistry of photography -- all without direct human intervention, then I would think the situation would again be analogous. If the camera could do all that because an intern was holding it, the intern would still own the shots even if their employer gave them the assignment.

          That's why the intern signs an employment contract that reassigns their rights to their employer!!

  • joshka6 minutes ago
    If you want to go much deeper, https://www.copyright.gov/ai/ is particularly good at least on the side of comprehensiveness.
  • p0w3n3dan hour ago
    That's quite impressive approach from the companies' perspective. Let's first use claude code and then we'll think who the code belongs to.

    I think that the gold rush approach happening right now around me (my company EMs forcing me to work with claude as fast as possible) show really short-sight of all the management people.

    First - I lose my understanding of the code base by relying too much on claude code.

    Second - we drop all the good coding practices (like XP, code review etc.) because claude is reviewing claude's code.

    Third - we just take a big smelly dump on the teamwork - it's easier and cheaper to let one developer drive the whole change from backend to frontend, despite there are (or were) two different teams - one for FE, one for BE.

    Fourth - code commenting was passe, as the code is documentation itself... Unless... there is a problem with the context (which is). So when the people were writing the code, they would not understand the over-engineered code because of their fault. But now we make a step back for our beloved claude because it has small context... It's unfair treatment.

    I could go on and on. And all those cultural changes are because of money. So I dub this "goldrush", open my popcorn and see what happens next.

    • nicoburnsan hour ago
      > Third - we just take a big smelly dump on the teamwork - it's easier and cheaper to let one developer drive the whole change from backend to frontend, despite there are (or were) two different teams - one for FE, one for BE.

      Agree with your other points, but IMO this one has always been better. You often need to design the backend and frontend to work with each other, and that requires a lot more coordination when it's separate teams.

    • sebastianconcptan hour ago
      Also, it's supremely easy do the wrong abstractions long term and compromise premature internal designs that will start to starve of human mental modeling, hence explaining with accountability how things work and what the plans are when an incident happens. Also, if the wrong generalizations are introduced, coded correctly and reviewed and approved by AIs, then who's even driving really?
    • bearjawsan hour ago
      I rarely see #3 yield better solutions, it's usually better to collaborate as a team on requirements and gotchas, but let one person own implementation.
    • cindyllm44 minutes ago
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  • _fluxan hour ago
    I think it should be pretty clear that if you provided the tool the specification for the code you want, you have already provided creative input.

    After all, is this not what happens with compilers as well? LLM agents are just quite advanced compilers that don't require the specification to be as detailed as with traditional compilers.

    • andy99an hour ago
      I agree with you, though I feel like some of the recent stuff I’ve made with Claude code it’s more like I’ve given a bit of configuration info but it’s chosen all of the defaults, and I’m a fairly minor contributor. All the look and feel (for the kind of apps I write with it) is chosen by Claude (by Anthropics data labelers), it’s just the broad strokes that come from me. So I wouldn’t really consider myself to have even contributed the majority of the creative input.

      Obviously depends widely on the nature of what you’re building and how good you are with the default decisions it makes.

    • senaevren23 minutes ago
      The compiler analogy is the right one to reach for and the Copyright Office addressed it directly: the question is not whether you provided input, it is whether the creative expression in the output reflects human authorship. With a traditional compiler, the programmer authors every expression in the source. With an LLM, the programmer authors the intent and the model makes the expressive decisions about structure, naming, pattern, and implementation. Whether that distinction matters legally is what Allen v. Perlmutter is working through right now. The summary judgment briefing completed in early 2026 and it may be the next landmark ruling on exactly this question.
    • yodonan hour ago
      >it should be pretty clear that if you provided the tool the specification for the code you want, you have already provided creative input.

      If you provided a human contractor with the specifications for the code you want, the courts have repeatedly made clear you have not provided the creative input from a copyright perspective, and the contractor needs to explicitly assign those rights to you if want to own the copyright on the code.

    • hypercube33an hour ago
      To me this is like asking who owns the binary files a compiler generates.
  • hackingonempty13 minutes ago
    Nobody disputes that I own the copyright in a sound recording I made just by pushing the red button on my recorder. So it is a mystery to me that copyright to any sort of human conditioned machine generation is in dispute.
  • daishi55an hour ago
    I’m no lawyer but I feel that meta, my employer, wouldn’t be letting us go hog-wild with Claude code if they weren’t completely confident that they fully owned the outputs, whether we change it or not.
  • bkoan hour ago
    This is all well and good as an intellectual exercise, but in real life none of this matters. Almost no one thinks their code is copyrightable or seriously thinks their code is a moat. I've written the same chunks of code for a number of employers as has every engineer. We've all taken chunks from stack overflow and other places without carefully considering attribution.

    This comes up in a few places as a kind of vindictive battle. One example is Oracle suing Google for too closely mimicking their API in Android. Here is an example:

    > private static void rangeCheck(int arrayLen, int fromIndex, int toIndex) {

        if (fromIndex > toIndex)
    
            throw new IllegalArgumentException("fromIndex(" + 
    fromIndex +

                                               ") > toIndex(" + 
    toIndex + ")");

        if (fromIndex < 0)
    
            throw new ArrayIndexOutOfBoundsException(fromIndex);
    
        if (toIndex > arrayLen)
    
            throw new ArrayIndexOutOfBoundsException(toIndex);
    
    }

    And it was deemed fair use by the Supreme Court. Other times high frequency hedge funds sued exiting employees, sometimes successfully. In America, anyone can sue you for any reason, so sure, you'll have Ellison take a feud up with Page and Brin all the way up to the Supreme Court.

    In 99.9% of instances none of this matter. Sure there's the technical letter of the law but in practice, and especially now, none of this matters.

    https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/20pdf/18-956_d18f.pdf

    • freedombenan hour ago
      > Almost no one thinks their code is copyrightable or seriously thinks their code is a moat.

      You'd be surprised! Among non-software management types, they often think of the code as extremely valuable IP and a trade secret. I'm a CTO and I've made comments before to non/less technical peers about how the code (generally speaking) isn't that big of a secret, and I routinely get shocked expressions. In one case the company almost passed on a big contract because it required disclosure of the source code (with an NDA). When I told them that was a silly reason and explained why, they got it, but the old way of thinking still permeates and is a hard habit to break.

      Edit: Fixed errant copy pasta error. Glad that wasn't a password :-)

      • bkoan hour ago
        You're right, I guess maybe I mean in any serious actionable way. Senior, non technical people leave plenty of money on the table by thinking they're protecting something valuable or they have some kind of secret sauce. It's all silly is what I meant to say, and digging into the technicalities of whether your code is truly copyrightable is kind of pointless. It's all vibes.
        • senaevren7 minutes ago
          The place where it concretely matters is M&A due diligence. Acquirers are now routinely asking about AI tool usage in development and running license scans as a condition of closing. A codebase that cannot demonstrate human authorship over its core IP, or that contains GPL contamination, creates a representation and warranty problem in the purchase agreement. That is vibes, but a deal breaker one. For most companies day to day you are right. For the companies that get acquired or raise institutional capital, the question becomes very concrete very quickly.
    • conartist6an hour ago
      Nobody ever talks about convergence.

      You, right now, are taking about convergence.

      If there is no artwork, there can be no copyright. If every character of the code to write is basically predetermined by the APIs you need to call, there is no artwork and no copyright.

      Build a novel new API, and you'll be protected though.

    • Riettyan hour ago
      Why were the HFT firms suing employees?
    • Nursiean hour ago
      > Almost no one thinks their code is copyrightable

      I think this is an unusual opinion.

      Code may not be copyrightable in as small chunks as you put there, but in terms of larger pieces I think companies and individuals very often labour under the belief that code is intellectual property under copyright law.

      If code isn't copyrightable, from where comes the GPL?

      And why does anyone care if (for instance) some Microsoft code might have accidentally ended up in ReactOS, causing that project to need to go into a locked-down review mode for months or years? For that matter why do employers assert that they own the copyright in contracts?

      I think it's the opposite - almost everyone thinks their code is copyrightable, outside of APIs and interop stuff, or things so simple as to be trivial.

    • croesan hour ago
      > Almost no one thinks their code is copyrightable

      Then why does reverse engineered code need to be a clean room implementation?

      Ask any emulator developer or the developers of ReactOS

      https://reactos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=21740

      • an hour ago
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  • e12ean hour ago
    Seems to gloss over other kinds of contamination, beyond GPL code. Code from pirated text books, the problem with the entire language model being trained on copyright data, and on the possibility of the training data containing various copyrighted code.
    • embedding-shapean hour ago
      > Code from pirated text books

      Anthropic "solved" this by intermingling the texts extracted from pirated books (illegal) with texts extracted from the physical books they bought and destroyed (legal), so no one can clearly say if the copyrighted material it spits out came from a legal source or not. Everyone rejoiced.

  • tommy29tmar33 minutes ago
    Maybe the useful test is not “who wrote this line?” but “can you show how it went from requirement/prompt/context to diff to human review/tests?” If you can’t, ownership is only one issue. You also can’t tell what was accepted as engineering work versus just copied output.
  • palata37 minutes ago
    One question I have is this: if an employee produces code predominantly generated by AI, it means that it is not copyrightable. Does that mean that the employee can take that code and publish it on the Internet?

    Or is it still IP even if it is not copyrightable? That would feel weird: if it's in the public domain, then it's not IP, is it?

    • senaevren13 minutes ago
      That is exactly the right question and the answer is genuinely strange. Uncopyrightable work falls into the public domain, which means anyone can use it, copy it, or build on it freely. The employer can still call it a trade secret and protect it through confidentiality obligations in employment contracts, but that protection is contractual rather than property-based. A trade secret loses protection the moment it is disclosed. So the employer's claim over purely AI-generated code is essentially: "you cannot share this" rather than "we own this." Those are meaningfully different legal positions, and most companies have not thought through which one they actually have.
    • cillian6426 minutes ago
      To look at it another way, just because some code I work on at my job is derived from open source MIT-licensed code doesn't mean I personally have the right to distribute it if my company doesn't want me to. I'd guess this comes under some generic "confidential information" clause in the employment contract.
    • BlackFly33 minutes ago
      A recipe isn't copyrightable but is still protected under trade secret law. I imagine that the same would apply. I think the major difference with software copyright is that I can just decompile your binary or copy a binary and give it to other people. For SAAS companies that don't distribute binaries, I imagine they basically have the same protections against rogue employees.
    • ModernMech28 minutes ago
      Presumably company policy would be implicated here, not copyright law. Whether or not it's copyrightable, what you create using AI is work product.
  • bearjawsan hour ago
    Article is incredibly fear mongering.

    Twice in my career the owners of a company have wanted to sue competitors for stealing their "product" after poaching our staff.

    Each time, the lawyers came in and basically told us that suing them for copyright is suicide, will inevitably be nearly impossible to prove, and money would be better spent in many other areas.

    In fact, we ended up suing them (and they settled) for stealing our copyrighted clinical content, which they copied so blatantly they left our own typos and customer support phone number in it.

    Go ahead, try to sue over your copyrighted code, 10 years and 100M later you will end up like Google v Oracle. What if the code is even 5% different? What about elements dictated by external constraints; hardware, industry standards, common programming practices, these aren't copyrightable.

    Then you have merger doctrine, how many ways can we really represent the same basic functions?

    Same goes with the copyleft argument, "code resembling copyleft" is incredibly vague, it would need to be verbatim the code, not resembling. Then you have the history of copyleft, there have been many abuses of copyleft and only ~10 notable lawsuits. Now because AI wrote it (which makes it _even harder_ to enforce), we will see a sudden outburst of copyleft cases? I doubt it.

    Ultimately anyone can sue you for any reason, nothing is stopping anyone right now from suing you claiming AI stole their copyleft code.

  • skadgean hour ago
    This seems to be grounded in US law. Does anyone know if the same rules would apply in eg EU law?
  • padmabushanan hour ago
    First answer who owns the model built with public data
  • smashedan hour ago
    The "if you generated the code at work using company tools, it's owned by your employer" affirmation in the article makes no sense to me?

    If computer generated code is not copyrightable, ownership cannot be reassigned either.

    • conartist6an hour ago
      It is copyrightable. A *human* can copyright code they wrote.
      • smashedan hour ago
        I meant in the sense that the "tool" is an LLM and the "work" was vibe coded.

        If vibe coded work is not copyrightable, it cannot be reassigned to the employer and become copyright protected.

        • senaevren23 minutes ago
          This is the sharpest point in the thread. You are right if the output has no copyright to begin with, there is nothing to assign. The employer's contractual claim over purely AI-generated code is not a copyright claim, it is a trade secret and confidentiality claim. Those are weaker protections: they require the information to remain secret, they do not survive disclosure, and they cannot be enforced against independent creation of the same code. Most IP assignment clauses in employment contracts were not drafted with this scenario in mind and may be claiming rights that do not legally exist.
        • conartist643 minutes ago
          correct
    • croesan hour ago
      How is it for human developers now if the company tool is a cloud tool and not running on company servers?
  • mensetmanusmanan hour ago
    It’s the same as photography. No photographer built the multibillion dollar supply chain for the optics train in a camera, nor did they build the city scape they are enjoying as a background, they simply set the stage and push a button.
  • DeathArrowan hour ago
    I have a wood cutting machine and some wood. Who owns the timber?
    • bell-cotan hour ago
      Sadly, IP "ownership" and copyright law are vastly more complex than ownership of physical stuff.

      Or were you planning to reproduce the (say) Ford Motor Company's trademarked symbol in wood? If so, you're right back in the stinkin' swamp.

    • croesan hour ago
      What is the wood in your example?

      This is like a machine you ask for timber and you get timber but you didn’t need to provide any wood

  • senaevren2 hours ago
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  • an hour ago
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