82 pointsby benterix2 hours ago6 comments
  • retiredan hour ago
    Years ago I was making the case that instead of digging ourselves into the Amazon eco-system with S3 storage, EC2 instances, DynamoDB and various other Amazon specific cloud products... we should just host virtual machines and have everything in there using open source products.

    People looked at me like they saw water burning but that would have made the dependency on the US a lot easier to sever. Just move the VM's.

    • xfactorialan hour ago
      The whole business model is around “Optimization through custom tools”.

      We can go with your idea, sure: a few months in, an Account Manager from the cloud provider shows up and says your bill could be reduced by 50% if you just adopt some changes, using their custom, super optimized tools (“minor changes” will be the mantra).

      And now you have your own company looking back to you on how can they get those savings, people who don’t understand what a VM is and cannot differentiate salesforce from an elastic container, as everything is “cloud”, but heard “50% off”.

      • RobotToaster10 minutes ago
        Do people actually take claims like that from glorified salesmen seriously?

        If a car salesman told me I could save 50% of my fuel bill from driving their special car a certain way I'd laugh at them.

        • piperswea minute ago
          They're probably not wrong, if they're talking about hypermiling a Prius
      • walrus01an hour ago
        Preventing this from happening requires a clued-in CTO and equivalent senior level leadership who can defend against such 'attack' methods and knows the different between, for instance, paying a monthly recurring cost to host a Linux/KVM virtual machine and paying for some totally 'cloud' SaAs.

        Further, it needs people in decision making roles who understand and value the strategic differences between having an infrastructure concept that is trapped in one provider's proprietary software tooling ecosystem (aws, azure, etc), vs things built on open standards that are portable.

    • nine_kan hour ago
      Most cloud VMs have network-attached storage working through a billing layer, and its IOPS numbers are pathetic. This makes running your own DB in a cloud VM much less reasonable. Now you can use local NVMe, but you still have to set up your own failover.

      The original promise of the cloud is "you pay us less than you pay your sysadmins", which is not entirely unreasonable, especially at early stages.

      Of course running on bare metal from Europe's own Hetzner is even more cost-efficient, if you already have a lot of sysadmin chops.

      • jbverschoor20 minutes ago
        Nah.. Amazon started with “ephimeral” compute. That was the whole thing why you needed another storage layer

        Unlike most VPSes

  • tomschwiha13 minutes ago
    The title is heavy clickbait. To say I just bought a Porsche when it was actually a Volkswagen is also wrong. Just because they belong to the same owner doesn't make it the same brand.
  • speedgoose16 minutes ago
    Yes I guess only banks don’t mind the high prices of Lidl’s cloud.

    It’s very much not a discount cloud provider. They are costly unlike their physical discount supermarkets.

  • pier25an hour ago
    Wait... Lidl has a cloud service now?
    • kodama-lens43 minutes ago
      Yeah, kind of. Lidl and Kaufland is owned by the Schwarz Group. They have been busy replicating the AWS orgin story. Their cloud is called StackIT. I've worked with them. Still some room to grow but a solid foundation. I like that competition is back on
    • storusan hour ago
      Schwarz seems to be obsessed with how Amazon (book seller) created AWS and they are trying to do the same... with 5 people. Also Aleph Alpha + Cohere is a Lidl work as the current CEO of the former led Lidl digital division.
      • scandoxan hour ago
        So the 7,500 they say they're employing...is not true?
        • ivan_gammel20 minutes ago
          Schwarz Gruppe includes Schwarz Digits, which include StackIT. 7500 is the number of employees at Digits, which also includes online marketplaces like Kaufland e-commerce, so definitely not all of them work on the sovereign cloud.
        • ambicapteran hour ago
          Lidl is a grocery store chain, I'm assuming GP was talking about the amount of people actually working on the cloud.
          • scandox35 minutes ago
            Lidl has 375,000 employees. They have stated they employ 7,500 people in their digital services division.
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          • avra29 minutes ago
            Yeah, Lidl and Kaufland are store chains, with 14200 stores combined. 7500 employees is just Schwarz Digits, the digital services division.
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    • apparaturan hour ago
      Sure and it's on SALE right now if you have the customer loyalty card!
    • walthamstowan hour ago
      The things you can find in the middle aisle!
  • kjkjadksjan hour ago
    Crazy that a discount grocer can trade blows with big american cloud compute.
    • retiredan hour ago
      LIDL sells everything you need in your life in the middle aisle. Even cloud solutions.
      • bodelecta16 minutes ago
        It's going to be hard getting that angle grinder I've never needed when there's a line of CTO's blocking the aisle
    • browningstreetan hour ago
      Don't you mean that it's crazy that a discount grocer can trade blows with a bookseller?
    • ivan_gammel12 minutes ago
      Lidl doesn‘t do that. It is just a grocery discounter, one company of the many in that corporate structure, and one of the users of that cloud.
    • burner-phone73an hour ago
      The Schwarz Gruppe (owner of Lidl) makes about as much as Meta and Microsoft. So, yes, they're are big player.
    • joaodlfan hour ago
      Not necessarily trading blows, but LIDL is huge in all sorts of figures. From revenue to employment numbers.
    • Barrin9210 minutes ago
      the parent company (Schwarz Group) has over half a million employees and makes something like 200 billion in revenue per year, I think calling it a discount grocer is underselling it a bit lol.
  • guywithahat2 hours ago
    > DNB Director Steven Maijoor announced last October that he intended to “set a good example” and switch to a European cloud, though he acknowledged that it “is not yet as robust or high-quality as the one from the U.S.”

    > Last year, the Dutch Central Bank (DNB) and the Netherlands Authority for the Financial Markets (AFM) warned that the Dutch financial sector had become too dependent on foreign IT service providers

    I wonder how much if this is a personal choice, and how much is pressure from the government. Banks are famously the first target of politicians, and it's common in China for exec's to publicly choose a national option under pressure from the CPP.

    • wolfi1an hour ago
      Lidl is German, so, not fully national, IMHO
      • graemep18 minutes ago
        If they cannot provide it nationally, Germany seems a good place to have it, especially as they are both EU.

        At the very least a country dependent cloud services from multiple other countries is less dependent on any one of them than a country predominantly dependent on one (and most of Europe is currently dependent on US cloud providers).

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