AGPLv3§74 Empowers Users to Thwart Badgeware Like OnlyOffice(sfconservancy.org)
75 pointsby pabs37 hours ago6 comments
  • RobotToaster5 hours ago
    The fact that the addictional terms are basically designed to defeat the original licence should make it clear to anyone that it isn't a "reasonable legal notice".

    IMO this is a great illustration of how the word "reasonable" stops the entire legal system collapsing.

    • u1hcw9nx2 hours ago
      Contract law uses Contra proferentem ("interpretation against the draftsman") principle: Ambiguous or confusing contract is interpreted against the party that provided the wording. It's amazing principle that makes things reasonable. Trying to be intentionally sneaky and confusing backfires.

      Contra proferentem is most important with "contracts of adhesion" like OSS licences that are pre-written contracts which are strict take-it or leave-it, leaving no opportunity for a party to bargain over specific contractual terms. Because the party does not have an opportunity to negotiate they may reasonably interpret a term in a different manner than the contract offeror intended.

      The court would likely rule that the more comprehensive document takes precedence (exactly what the AGPLv3 intended.) Less likely outcome is that the court decides there was no valid license at all. This would technically be copyright infringement, but they almost certainly wouldn't issue sanctions because of the innocent infringer principle. Sneaky Company, Inc. messed the license writing and that makes copyright infringement understandable.

      • thisislife2an hour ago
        But the key question is will the court accept it as an AGP License or accept the argument that it shouldn't be considered an AGPL licence but a derivative one with extra terms (because it has been modified)? If it is the latter, then everyone using their code would need to comply, in my opinion.
        • u1hcw9nxan hour ago
          That's not the question. There is an AGPL there and extra terms so that would not be under dispute either side. It would be derivative one from the start.

          The court would have to decide the rules of construction in the contract and what to do with conflicting clauses. They would verify what Section 7 says. They would ask "Did the Sneaky Company lead the users to believe they had a license with AGPLv3 terms", was there room for confusion? Was the license ambiguity given that it was take-or-leave it style unfair to users?

          The court would probably see evidence from company web site, and public communication to see how they advertised the software. If the company mentions AGPL and is vague about extra terms, it would be bad for the Sneaky Company.

    • gdwatson2 hours ago
      I feel like I am missing too much background here. If there is only one licensor, why add terms to defeat the license it chose rather than choose a license which does not need defeating?
  • aniviacat5 hours ago
    First time I hear about Euro-Office. I wonder if that's a serious project or just fishing for EU funding.
    • edelbitter4 hours ago
      This is much bigger than subsidies. IONOS is already making serious money in selling "we host FOSS for you" to both users and (though generally: small) companies. They can expect to gain substantially greater revenue from acquiring larger commercial and municipal/federal customers.. IF the full package attains sufficient interoperability to withstand the usual anti-competitive tactics.
    • moqmar5 hours ago
      Most of the companies behind it (including NextCloud itself & IONOS) are providing a document cloud to their users already & are used to maintaining Open Source, so I would indeed assume some seriousness here.
    • RobotToaster4 hours ago
      Both, I imagine
    • pseudalopex5 hours ago
      IONOS and Nextcloud are serious companies.
  • stefankuehnelan hour ago
    Take a look at the README on their GitHub profile: https://github.com/ONLYOFFICE/.github/tree/bed623f6efcc76b40...

    Before they even explain what the project is or what it does, you're immediately greeted with a "Legal note". It literally takes up the whole screen. It feels like a "WARNING. Private Property. NO TRESPASSING. Violators will be prosecuted!" sign rather than an invitation to explore a supposedly "free and open-source" software project.

    And then, of course, they add a "Contributors welcome!" section. Sure. They're happy to accept free work from the free and open-source software community, but the rights that community is supposed to get under the AGPL v3.0 license? Those rights are ignored, as per their own convenience.

    But don't worry, they do mention the "open-source" nature of their project with a hint at the license at the end:

    > ONLYOFFICE is distributed under the AGPL v3.0 license, ensuring transparency and commitment to the open-source community.

    What a joke!

    ---

    Just a note: I have no problem with a software developer deciding under what conditions to distribute their software to users. If users become aware of the software project, it is up to them to decide whether or not they agree to those conditions. Because of the benefits that free and open-source software offers users and developers, I believe strongly in free and open-source software. Here, however, "free" does not mean "free of charge", but rather "free" as in "freedom". While I won't applaud someone who doesn't redistribute their software as "free and open-source software", I also don't hold a grudge against them.

    However, I have a problem with the fact that, on the one hand, software is marketed as "free and open-source" software (apparently because it sounds good) while, on the other hand, the rights of the "free and open-source" software community are disregarded, abused, and trampled upon in such a despicable manner!

  • pwdisswordfishq3 hours ago
    Hacker News is too good for pilcrows?
  • andrewshadura5 hours ago
    Quite clearly OnlyOffice never wanted to have a fully free software office suite. The (mis)use of AGPL has always been a marketing trick and nothing more.
    • odie55335 hours ago
      Software wants to be free.

      Software is like sex. It's better when it's free.

  • roenxi5 hours ago
    This all seems a bit silly. Sneaky Company, Inc. can also add in that this new clause should be removed.

    The problem here isn't the legal interpretation of the license and adding new clauses doesn't seem to do anything useful. Sneaky Company can license their software under whatever weird combination of terms they like. If they want GPL except it's proprietary then they can do that. Weird but ok. Same again if they want the license to be internally contradictory - seems stupid but they can do that too.

    The actual issue is if they're trying to be deceptive by framing something as GPL licensed when in fact it is some new not-in-the-GPL-spirit license that they have developed. They should either be generally shamed or sued by whoever has copyright over the term "GPL" (pretty sure that is the FSF). That'd be ironic but there you go. Or some sort of false advertising suite.