68 pointsby joeax7 hours ago8 comments
  • aappleby6 hours ago
    The article title is super misleading - this is about measurements of inflammatory markers in vitro and explicitly does not generalize to food intake.
    • mutagen5 hours ago
      It is also missing the "in Mice" part of the headline.

      https://www.mdpi.com/2072-6643/18/3/376

      Functional Phytochemicals Cooperatively Suppress Inflammation in RAW264.7 Cells

      RAW 264.7 cells are a mouse macrophage cell line commonly used in research to study immune responses, inflammation, and cancer.

      • ngriffiths4 hours ago
        In mice, but not even real mice. That's a new one!
    • 3 hours ago
      undefined
    • dlcarrier2 hours ago
      Relevant xkcd: https://xkcd.com/1217/
  • roughly6 hours ago
    This is one of the things that’s deeply challenging for biology and biochemistry - it’s extremely resistant to the sort of reductionism that works so well for other fields. It’s rare to find a single compound, a single species, or a single pathway that’s responsible enough for an effect to show up in studies of the sort of power that one can muster without a ton of time and money, and as soon as you try to capture synergistic effects, you hit a combinatorial wall quickly. In microbiology, for instance, colonies of different bacterial species are the norm, not the exception, and metabolic pathways that span multiple species are common to the point that trying to isolate a given species’ contribution can miss the effect entirely.
    • Den_VR5 hours ago
      > metabolic pathways that span multiple species are common to the point that trying to isolate a given species’ contribution can miss the effect entirely.

      What does this mean?

      • 0cf8612b2e1e4 hours ago
        I think author is saying that you ingest compound A, microbe 1 eats A and secretes B, microbe 2 eats B and releases C. C happens to do <positive thing>. You could imagine parallel pathways where maybe microbe 2 only works if it is in the presence of microbe 3.

        Meaning everything is a mess to try and disentangle.

      • roughly4 hours ago
        So, a metabolic pathway is the set of steps by which an organism converts one molecule into another - this can be by splitting a molecule into pieces, by adding or removing an atom or small group of atoms, or by combining two different molecules into a larger or more complex one. By way of a very, very simple pathway, your body breaks down ethanol (alcohol, C2H5OH) by first removing a hydrogen (and causing the oxygen to double-bond to the carbon) to create Acetaldehyde, CH3CH=O, and then oxidizing that by swapping the H remaining on the second carbon for an OH to create Acetic Acid, the primary component in vinegar. So, when we say your body metabolizes ethanol into acetic acid, we're talking about a two step metabolic pathway.

        Bacteria can stash intermediate pathway results outside of their cell wall for various reasons (sometimes the chemical environment is more amenable outside the cell than inside, sometimes buildup of the intermediates can disrupt other processes, sometimes that's just how it happens - biology is weird), and very often what you'll see is that a multi-step metabolic pathway can span across multiple different organisms - so, species 1 takes up a starting material, performs a handful of modifications, and then excrete the results outside the cell wall, and then another species will take up that substance and perform additional modifications on it, and this can run through several species before reaching the terminal state in the pathway (including the first species again). This works because each bacteria can have different enzymes and different internal chemistry which can affect how easy or likely a reaction is.

        Nitrogen fixing is a notable example of this - it's not just one species in the roots of legumes responsible for taking N2 and converting it into ammonia, there's 6 or 7 that take part in that pathway.

    • the_real_cher5 hours ago
      Hopefully AI can help us parse some of these massive data sets and interactions.
  • ChrisMarshallNY6 hours ago
    So ... mint chutney, anyone?
    • tecoholic3 hours ago
      My man. Why stop at chutney, when you can go all the way to Briyani (the south indian kind)
  • ksjdhdbdban hour ago
    Honestly has anyone tried eating peppermint and chilli?? It honestly amplifies the effects of chilli .... Do not recommend.
  • jareklupinski4 hours ago
    chase it with a shot of espresso for 1000x increase
  • hyperhello6 hours ago
    Can I take a capsaicin and a mint supplement together? Is that enough to get the effect?
    • aappleby6 hours ago
      No, the article title is misleading. This is in-vitro research only.
    • dylan6046 hours ago
      It is funny how that is the thing people turn to rather than just eating food. Let me eat junk and be happy while taking supplements.
      • IncreasePosts5 hours ago
        What part of their post indicates they eat junk? Maybe they just don't want to have spicy minty meals every day
        • hyperhello5 hours ago
          I don’t just eat junk, but it’s hard to experiment with a whole dietary change when you have sporadic inflammation. I guess that’s why we do scientific studies, right?
          • IncreasePosts4 hours ago
            Sorry to pry, but since you're here, what are the symptoms of sporadic inflammation? Any clues what causes it?
            • hyperhelloan hour ago
              Literally just getting old. I’m not even old, just not young.
        • dlcarrier2 hours ago
          Normally I'd agree, but in this case I'd opt for the supplement. Spicy mint is a pretty repulsive flavor.
    • nosrepa3 hours ago
      You'd still get a certain effect when it comes out.
    • darth_avocado3 hours ago
      You just need Indian food not supplements
  • msuniverse20266 hours ago
    [flagged]
    • zdragnar5 hours ago
      There's tons of folk remedies that do absolutely nothing useful at all, too. When you don't have any reliable medicine, you take whatever you have on hand and hope for a placebo effect. Eventually, you find something helpful because even a broken clock is right twice a day.

      There are recorded beliefs in medieval Germany, for instance, that carrying or wearing an eye from a bat will make you invisible.

    • adzm4 hours ago
      Folk medicine and remedies are one thing; traditional and herbal medicine certainly has its place and is understudied.

      Homeopathy however is pure nonsense even on a fundamental scientific level.

      It is unfortunate that the two get conflated.

    • nkrisc5 hours ago
      What’s the physical basis for that?
    • krior6 hours ago
      Homeopathy is not a "folk" tradition, it is simply an insane concept.
      • halflife5 hours ago
        I once sat next to a mint plant and it cured my cold, the farther I sat the better I felt. Obviously diluted mint particles in the air cured me.
        • lapetitejort5 hours ago
          We must eradicate mint plants. Over time the dilution of mint particles in the air will become so small that all diseases will go extinct
        • the_real_cher5 hours ago
          How was your chakra alignment? That may have contributed to your recovery.
      • msuniverse20265 hours ago
        and yet it moves :^)
    • lapetitejort5 hours ago
      Can you give an example of a well-known homeopathic and/or folk remedy that has been adopted into regular medicine, maybe in the last 20-50 years?
      • ksymph3 hours ago
        The premise is asymmetrical. One could just as easily ask "Which regular medicine has been adopted as a folk remedy?", to which the answer of course is largely no. There is also a (purely pedantic) argument to be made that folk remedies are more 'regular', though assuming the question here is "Are folk remedies widely prescribed in their original forms by typical modern-day MDs?", the answer, again, is largely no.

        Now, to the question "Which folk medicines have a fairly robust (or at least promising) clinical basis?", there are certainly some: ginger[0], turmeric[1], honey[2], psilocybin[3], and of course capsaicin and peppermint. Not to mention sunshine, exercise, and meditation, all of which have traditional origins.

        Taking a step back though, historically, pharmaceutical drugs have often been derived from natural remedies with bases in folk remedies. The pipeline from traditional medicine -> scientific study -> molecular isolation -> synthesis and mechanized production is pretty well-trodden. Aspirin comes from willow bark, morphine comes from opium, quinine (malaria treatment) comes from cinchona bark, paclitaxel (cancer treatment) comes from yew bark.

        Homeopathy is BS though, no argument there. GP really shouldn't put it in the same bucket as folk medicine (it's not even particularly old).

        [0] https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9654013/

        [1] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36804260/

        [2] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/37447382/

        [3] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35225143/

      • rkomorn5 hours ago
        I think the closest one ("but no cigar") might be oscillococcinum, but its popularity isn't due to doctors recommending it (because they don't, by and large).
        • lapetitejort5 hours ago
          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oscillococcinum

          > There is no compelling scientific evidence that Oscillococcinum has any effect beyond placebo.

          Does not sound promising

          • rkomorn5 hours ago
            Wonder if that might be related to why I wrote "but its popularity isn't due to doctors recommending it (because they don't, by and large)."
    • gib4445 hours ago
      Obligatory Mitchell and Webb https://youtube.com/watch?v=HMGIbOGu8q0
  • josephcsible6 hours ago
    That particular combination reminds me of https://www.tumblr.com/nudibranchparty/188803422027/fun-fact...