230 pointsby giuliomagnifico3 hours ago15 comments
  • mrwh2 hours ago
    Meta wants to be an impartial platform only and exactly when it suits them to be.
    • tiberius_p2 hours ago
      That's exactly what they're saying.
    • stronglikedan28 minutes ago
      Name one platform that doesn't, and I'm not just talking about lip service.
      • _moof3 minutes ago
        There are degrees.
      • mbesto3 minutes ago
        Signal?
    • zeroonetwothreean hour ago
      I think there’s a clear difference in restricting advertising vs organic posts.
      • thimabian hour ago
        Meta does both. It has long been said that businesses have little organic reach in Meta’s platforms, as an incentive for them to use ads.
        • lazarus0113 minutes ago
          I’m not a big poster at all, but ran into this precise issue.

          They analyze the video posts on instagram. If they detect the video has even a small amount of commercial value, they classify it as branded content and you need to pay for it to get promoted.

        • alex11385 minutes ago
          For all the creepy People You May Know stuff they don't even bother connecting people properly even on people's personal pages https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14147719
      • HWR_14an hour ago
        What difference is that?
    • kotaKat2 hours ago
      I mean, they spun up a bullshit "Oversight Board" that they can fully 100% choose to ignore and decline to implement their demands when they're made.
    • 2OEH8eoCRo0an hour ago
      Repeal section 230
      • LocalH4 minutes ago
        Throwing the baby out with the bathwater?

        I believe we need to strengthen 230, but with the added caveat that affected platform owners must stop gaming the algorithms, that it must require user-driven curation. Let me curate my own feed, stop shoving shit in front of my eyes. When you do so, you're making heavy editorial decisions, and should be open to liability.

      • epistasis15 minutes ago
        A few years ago this seemed a bit too extreme for me. Now, with the web mostly burned down anyway, I see little to lose and lots to gain in a section 230 repeal. My, how the Overton Window changes on some ideas. And when it's changing on some things it tends to accelerate on others too, like a social momentum on reconsidering past norms.
        • Pxtl5 minutes ago
          My compromise pitch, since the "You need ID from your users" ship has sailed:

          Companies are not liable if they have proper ID of the person who submitted the content and can provide that to a plaintiff. If they have not made a good-faith effort to know who submitted this info (like taking ID, not just an email address) then they're taking responsibility for the submitted content.

          Which means sites that have responsible moderation can still allow anonymous contributions.

          The real problem is the inherent asymmetry of legal battles, where the wealthiest can fight forever with endless motions and have near-total impunity while a legal action would basically nuke a normal person's life. Not to mention the fact that an international border can often make this whole conversation moot.

          • 2OEH8eoCRo03 minutes ago
            I like this compromise.

            One of my issues is the lack of liability in practice. The poster is technically liable but they're anon, behind proxies, foreign, etc. and unaccountable. It results in people being harmed online without recourse.

            These companies should have a duty to know who their users are.

      • kelnos16 minutes ago
        That phrase does not mean what you think it means.
  • Xeoncross39 minutes ago
    As an aside, class-action lawsuits seem less than ideal for the public. The awards benefit the lawyers and perhaps a small handful, but the actual plaintiffs only get $0.05. In addition, successful class-action suits prevent further litigation from being allowed for the same issue.

    Individuals bringing their own lawsuits seems like it would affect better change as 1) the award money would be better distributed instead of concentrated and 2) the amounts levied against the companies would be higher and more of concern than the class-action slap-on-the-wrist they currently get.

    • rokkamokka36 minutes ago
      A hundred million identical court cases might not be too good for the legal system
      • ed31215 minutes ago
        1. Why should harming a million people identically reduce their right to a fair legal evaluation and possibly compensation for damages? <-- maybe it makes sense for large corporations to carry insurance to pay for the potentially massive legal costs they could impose on governments? 2. Shouldn't we be able to quickly resolve these cases assuming there are no substantially different pieces of evidence?
      • SecretDreams12 minutes ago
        Agreed. Naturally, the solution is to get meta to compensate for the actual and cumulative damage they've done to mankind. Then plaintiffs might actually benefit.

        This is humanity vs Mark Zuckerberg.

  • bilekas2 hours ago
    > "We will not allow trial lawyers to profit from our platforms while simultaneously claiming they are harmful."

    Wow.. That is quite a statement. Am I right in saying that in order to claim for the class action lawsuit, which facebook has been 'found negligent', that the victims need to take an action collectively in order to claim ? IE They need to be reached somehow to inform them of the possibility ?

    Seems the most obvious place to advertise would be Meta.

    I understand Meta can basically do whatever they like with their ToS but the statement from the Meta spokesperson seems like an extremely bad idea.

    • pixl97an hour ago
      Tobacco lawyers "Putting that cigarettes are harmful on the box would be devastating to our profits!"
      • akersten21 minutes ago
        It would be a better analogy if tobacco companies sold ad space on their packs and chose not to do business with a private for-profit anti-smoking solicitation group.
      • roysting20 minutes ago
        I understand the impulse, but there are not only significant differences, i.e., the requirement to add labeling to cigarettes was mostly a judicial or legislative action, but there is also that rather perverse fact that this kind of legislation that people are championing is often funded by profit and greed just like the harm being sued over.

        The article even at least mentions that at least one of the suits is private equity funded; which generally will result in the partners and/or investors of the private equity firm and the attorneys suing, which are often all one and the same in what is just a financial and legal shell game, net tens of millions of dollars, while the supposed victims will end up with nothing but pennies on the dollar of harm and injury.

        I get the impulse to also “cheer” for the lawsuits, but if you thought Meta, etc. are bad; you really don’t want to look into the vile pestilence that is the law firms that are basically organized crime too by the core definition of crime being an offense and harm upon society.

        I don’t really know a solution for this problem because it is so rooted in the core foundation of this rotten system we still call America for some reason, but for the time being I guess, the only moderately effective remedy for harm and injury is to combat it with more harm and injury.

      • reactordevan hour ago
        Literally every ceo
        • deaux25 minutes ago
          You missed an adjective: literally every megacorp CEO. Plenty of small companies with transparent and honest CEOs.

          Also why we need much less megacorps than there are now.

      • bko22 minutes ago
        Imagine NYT banning an ad in it's newspaper telling people how to cancel and sue NYT?

        Wild stuff

    • giancarlostoro2 hours ago
      Would be really entertaining if all the lawyers affected banded together and made a class action lawsuit full of lawyers as the plaintiffs.
    • stronglikedan29 minutes ago
      > the statement from the Meta spokesperson seems like an extremely bad idea.

      All corporate CYA ideas sound that way, but ultimately end up benefiting the company in the end. Meta is right to do this. That's not to say it's right to do, but it's right for the company.

    • bwestergard2 hours ago
      They wouldn't profit if the cases didn't have merit.
    • HumblyTossed2 hours ago
      The judge should have ordered Meta to place a banner on FB so that everyone can see it and join if they're a victim.
      • shimman39 minutes ago
        Wow this is a really good idea. I wonder if the various state trials happening as well should use this for remediation too.

        It's not a hard thing to implement on their end and should be mandated by a judge as you said.

        Filing this away for later use.

        • miki12321111 minutes ago
          Europe (Poland) loves this kind of stuff.

          It often comes up in (anti) free-speech trials, where the government compels the perpetrator to issue a public apology to the victim. Forcing them to buy an ad in a newspaper for example is not unheard of.

          As far as I understand, Americans consider this to be "compelled speech" and hence prohibited, but I might be wrong on this.

      • smsm4222 minutes ago
        Not likely to survive 1st Amendment challenge - it is possible to compel somebody to certain speech as a result of losing a case, but doing this as a prerequisite when the case has just started is not likely to fly. Otherwise I could force Facebook (or any other platform) to publish anything just by suing them - and anybody could sue anybody else on virtually any grounds.
    • 3form2 hours ago
      "Lawyer benefitting from cases about prostitution equals to a pimp" kind of argument.
    • draw_down2 hours ago
      [dead]
    • mchusma2 hours ago
      [flagged]
      • malfistan hour ago
        How do you know that? How could you know that?

        These people are one of the few people holding Meta accountable for their evil acts and because of that you call them "scummiest people in the US"

        That's nonsense.

        • raw_anon_1111an hour ago
          And the lawyers will make millions and the people will make nothing. Facebook won’t make any significant revenue affecting changes.
          • bdangubic21 minutes ago
            that is a problem of the system that needs to be solved. meta is among the purest forms of evil inflicting irreversible effects on our society (and youth in particular) and the fact that you are quite right isn't really an issue with the lawyers but system that allows punishment to not fit the crime.
        • whichan hour ago
          If you read the settlements that come out of these lawsuits, you will pretty much always find an 8 to low 9 figure settlement (that the lawyers get a third of), maybe some superficial policy changes, and $12 checks to the supposed victims who only became victims when they randomly got an email telling them they should join the lawsuit. The only people who benefit are the lawyers.
          • malfistan hour ago
            $12 dollars is $12 dollars people wouldn't have without them. You can always opt out of a class action settlement and sue yourself if you're not happy with the terms.

            But at the end of the day, the lawyers did real work, took on real risk and achieved something. They held a big tech company accountable, and that is a meaningful difference from the status quo. I don't care that they made money doing that, they should.

            • amethyst4 minutes ago
              Is it really holding them "accountable" when the settlements are for laughably small amounts, like <1% of a single day's profit?
          • reaperduceran hour ago
            The only people who benefit are the lawyers.

            My special savings account where I deposit the settlement checks from the various tech companies that have violated my privacy or other rights disagrees.

            Sometimes it's 43¢. Sometimes it's $400.

            In the last three years, I've put… checking… $5,351.83 in that account because tech companies think laws and morals don't apply to them.

            Saying that these lawsuits only benefit lawyers is both false and yet another lazy tech bubble cliche.

            Yes, the lawyers get way more than I do. They also did 99% the work, so I don't hold it against them.

            Just read the newspaper. Every time you see an article about one of these suits, check it out to see if it applies to you.

            • nslsman hour ago
              Hey at least you get to pocket all of that. Here in Europe the government keeps the money and then distributes it to the scum of the Earth. I'd rather give the money to lawyers, at least they did _something_.
              • duskdozeran hour ago
                >distributes it to the scum of the Earth

                Who?

        • dec0dedab0dean hour ago
          There are many lawyers that gather up victims for class action payouts and take most of the money for themselves.

          They don't even bother trying to get more when they can, because they're just bottom feeding.

      • reaperduceran hour ago
        You may think Meta is bad. But plaintiff counsel like this are generally the scummiest people in the US. (Maybe not universal, but 90% are morally repugnant).

        As they say, "95% of lawyers give the remaining 5% a bad name."

        At the same time, 99% of social networks give the remaining 1% a bad name.

    • boringg2 hours ago
      I mean those class action lawsuits enrich trial lawyers and maybe force companies to behave better (though i bet empirical evidence would show that its more a cost of business).

      The 20$ dollars people get is nothing but a guise that the trial lawyers are helping people.

      • bilekas2 hours ago
        I'm not sure if the lower price means that class actions shouldn't still be taken.

        It's to allow companies to not have to deal with individual claims for each person. I see that the ranges can be substantial though, several thousands, but seems to be criteria.

        > Nearly nine months later, Mark received a notification that his claim had been approved. Two weeks after that, $186 was deposited into his bank account. While the amount wasn’t substantial, it covered a grocery run and a phone bill—and more importantly, it reminded him that companies can be held accountable, even in small ways. [0]

        [0] https://peopleforlaw.com/blog/how-much-do-people-typically-g...

        If the fine's don't dissuade companies from bad practices, the class actions with theoreticaly no upper limit might be a better option to enforce proper behaviour.

        • boringg19 minutes ago
          I can agree with that -- however the amount of money the trial lawyers make comparatively is wildly disproportionate. I think that 186$ figure is an example on the high side of payouts to individuals.
  • glaslong28 minutes ago
    Thus begins another Streisand Effect meme campaign of

    "MZ Is A Punk-Ass B

    payed for by Person & Guy LLP"

  • ginkgotree10 minutes ago
    Social Media, and specifically Facebook / Meta, will go down in history as one of the worst developments in technology in the 21st century. As Frances Haugen stated in her testimony, Mark Zuckberg needs to be removed from the helm at Meta.
  • fdeage19 minutes ago
    "Anxiety. Depression. Withdrawal. Self-harm. These aren't just teenage phases — they're symptoms linked to social media addiction in children."

    Seems like they couldn't write even three lines without a LLM.

    • WesolyKubeczek10 minutes ago
      LLMs love this style, but they love it because it's just about every single piece of advertisement writing for the last aeon or so, and it's a mighty chunk of their training corpora.
    • boelboel12 minutes ago
      Maybe being unable to write us another symptom
  • bastard_opan hour ago
    I wonder what would happen posting these ads to truth social and twitter.
  • 37 minutes ago
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  • pcardoso2 hours ago
    Reminds me of Carl Sagan’s Contact, where Haden, the millionaire funding Ellie’s work, made a TV ad blocker and then sued the TV companies when they refused to play ads for his product.

    I wonder if that is what will happen next.

  • guywithahatan hour ago
    There is a humor that these law firms won a case against Meta and the first thing they did is give them advertising money won from the court case. That said the ads sound pretty aggressive, and from what I've read it sounds like it wasn't a very fair decision. I understand the conflict of interest but I have sympathies for Meta here
  • josefritzisherean hour ago
    So they remove class action lawsuits but not pedos. Got it.
    • stronglikedan25 minutes ago
      Since literally everyone is calling everyone they don't like a pedo nowadays, it's pretty much impossible for any platform to get rid of the pedos.
  • HumblyTossed2 hours ago
    Do photogs do that on purpose, or does Zuck really always have that sociopath stare?
  • k33n2 hours ago
    The idea that Meta is obligated to be so impartial that it must allow lawsuits against itself to be promoted on its own platform is a bit naive and utopian.

    Its own TOS states that they won’t allow that.

    • schubidubiduba2 hours ago
      TOS are not laws. In fact, they often partially violate laws and those parts are then void. In some countries, anything written in TOS that is not "expected to be there" is void.
      • zeroonetwothreean hour ago
        Ok but I don’t really see why this specific term would violate any law? Do we really want a society where platforms are forced to present speech that is harmful to them? If you own a store and I put a sign up on your wall advertising a rival store wouldn’t it be reasonable for you to disallow that?
        • quantum_magpie22 minutes ago
          An alternative reply, with analogy, if you like them:

          You own a restaurant, where you sell poisoned (intentionally and knowingly) food. A group of people band up for class action lawsuit for poisoning them, and have the lawyers post a sign at your restaurant, that everyone poisoned there should reach out and get some compensation.

          Should you be allowed to take the sign down?

        • quantum_magpie27 minutes ago
          It’s not a rival store, or speech against them.

          It’s a lawsuit, with the users of the platform as the damaged party, against the platform. Removing the possibility to reach the users should result in a default judgement with maximum damages immediately.

      • mywittynamean hour ago
        I kind of wish countries would just define, "terms of service" for everyone and not allow companies to modify them further.
      • raincole2 hours ago
        No one says ToS are laws and especially not the parent commenter.
        • Fraterkesan hour ago
          The parent comment brings up the ToS as an example of why it's naive to believe Meta is obligated to do something, but what Meta is obligated to do depends on the law.
          • raincolean hour ago
            And which laws state that Meta is obligated to show ads like this?
    • nkrisc2 hours ago
      Fair enough. If they're not impartial then lets hold them accountable for the content published in their platform.
      • k33n2 hours ago
        I’m not against these companies losing their Section 230 immunity. Social media platforms are, in my personal opinion, publishers in their current form.

        If they went back to operating as “friends and family feed providers” then letting them keep their 230 immunity would be easier to justify.

        • TheCoelacanthan hour ago
          Yes, if they went back to being chronological feeds of people you follow, then they should get to keep Section 230 immunity.

          When they are making editorial decisions about what to content to promote to you and what content to hide from you, then they should lose it.

        • wbobeirne2 hours ago
          You are relying on the wrong people to be able to understand that nuanced distinction.
      • wnevets2 hours ago
        [flagged]
      • mc322 hours ago
        To me that’s how it should be. They shouldn’t have to run ads against themselves yet they should be liable or accountable for harm they are found guilty of.
        • pixl972 hours ago
          >They shouldn’t have to run ads against themselves

          This is not how it works when you're found guilty of committing harm. Tobacco companies are a good example of this.

          • mc322 hours ago
            If the government mandates them then yes. If it’s not mandated they have the right to refuse service.
            • pixl97an hour ago
              The bigger you get the more iffy it gets refusing service to others. Also it can and will be used against you in future civil and criminal cases.
    • iinnPP2 hours ago
      I tend to agree with you on this. I wanted to add however that Meta itself lets so many TOS violating ads in, that it seems like special treatment for ads that are much less undesirable than the ads normally pushed.

      It's not just a Meta issue either.

    • hansvman hour ago
      Companies have to inform affected individuals of data breaches, especially when HIPAA gets involved. Brokers have to inform clients of transaction errors. Auto manufacturers have to inform owners of recalls. Retirement funds have to inform plan participants of lawsuits involving those funds.

      You don't even have to invoke the idea that Meta is big enough to be regulated as a public utility for this to have broad precedent in favor of forcing a malicious actor to inform its victims that they might be entitled to a small fraction of their losses in compensation.

      • zeroonetwothreean hour ago
        Well we aren’t discussing the government requiring meta to inform users. We are discussing whether meta can choose which private actors’ ads to allow. It would seem silly that a platform would be forced to allow all ads.
    • mirashii2 hours ago
      That idea was not expressed in the article, only the fact that the ads were removed. This is worth covering, especially when coupled with the context for what ads Meta regularly does allow. One does not have to believe that they're obligated to do so while also believing that it's incredibly scummy behavior that consumers should be aware of and question.

      https://www.reuters.com/investigations/meta-is-earning-fortu...

    • dcrazyan hour ago
      This is why courts are empowered to infringe upon the rights of parties to the case.
    • Zigurd2 hours ago
      There are so many ads for nostrums, cults, get rich quick scams, and other junk that violate TOS, that Meta has a legitimacy problem with their TOS.
    • freejazz2 hours ago
      Okay? They're exactly the assholes everyone says they are. That's the point.
    • gilrain2 hours ago
      Let’s force them to be obligated to do that, then. “Just let them hurt people, and then let them hide that hurt” kind of sucks for society.
    • 3form2 hours ago
      Maybe, but so what? Your remark lacks a conclusion.

      Mine is that it could then well be required to do so by law. Companies are not individuals, so I don't think they are owed any freedoms beyond what is best for utility they can provide.

    • streetfighter642 hours ago
      The idea that a company can override laws via its TOS is a bit strange.
      • BeetleBan hour ago
        Genuinely curious. By not allowing a specific type of ad, what law are they breaking?
    • Larrikin2 hours ago
      [flagged]
    • pixl972 hours ago
      [flagged]
    • hashmap2 hours ago
      at certain scales, reality has to win out over whatever ideal you have in your head about how things should be. facebook is massive, a lot of society is on it, and its a problem to make recourse invisible to people most affected by the thing stealing their attention.
    • swiftcoder2 hours ago
      > The idea that Meta is obligated to be so impartial

      Is their defence of Section 230 protections not in part rooted in that claim of impartiality?

      • nradov2 hours ago
        No. Section 230 doesn't mention anything about impartiality.
        • swiftcoderan hour ago
          It indeed doesn't, but conservative lawmakers signalled repeatedly that they were unhappy about Meta's protection under section 230 if their moderation policies were not politically neutral
  • neuroelectron2 hours ago
    Reminds me of ChatGPT insisting all news about OpenAI is unverified speculation.
  • skeeter202010 minutes ago
    Can't we all just agree there are no GOOD people in this situation? Meta, class-action lawyers, PE and big money that funds the lawsuits as a profit venture... The one thing they all appear to share: parasites extracting resources from their host.