Doesn't the AGPL specifically disallow that? If I understand correctly, the FSF has even directly threatened legal action against developers who add extra restrictions to the AGPL. The license text is copyrighted, does not allow modifications, and includes terms allowing the user to ignore any additional restrictions, so adding extra restrictions would seem to either be ineffective or a copyright violation.
> When you convey a copy of a covered work, you may at your option remove any additional permissions from that copy, or from any part of it.
https://www.gnu.org/licenses/agpl-3.0.en.html#section7
OnlyOffice claims:
> In other words, AGPLv3 does not permit selective application: a recipient either accepts AGPLv3 in its entirety, including all additional conditions, or acquires no rights to use the software.
> Any removal, disregard, or unilateral “exclusion” of conditions imposed under Section 7 constitutes use beyond the scope of the granted license and therefore a breach.
https://www.onlyoffice.com/blog/2026/03/onlyoffice-flags-lic...
To me (IANAL etc) that seems questionable. But I also say that the section 7 in entirety is not particularly clear.
It says that you can add requirement of attribution but also that such additional term can be removed, so it seems rather pointless?
See also this post from 2022: https://opensource.org/blog/modified-agplv3-removes-freedoms...
> All other non-permissive additional terms are considered "further restrictions" within the meaning of section 10. If the Program as you received it, or any part of it, contains a notice stating that it is governed by this License along with a term that is a further restriction, you may remove that term.
OnlyOffice claims that their restrictions fall under the items b) and e)
Referring to a brand in the capacity of providing attribution is entirely different than using a brand in the capacity of trade. Attributing someone is not the same as using their trademark. Ever write a "works cited" at the end of a report in school? They aren't full of logos, they don't imply that you are the author, (they state the opposite) and they certainly don't violate any trade laws. They are literally just lists of attributions.
e.g. "This software is copyright OnlyOffice", or similar, is an attribution that does not violate any trademarks. It satisfies both b) and e). (although I will note that the license says "or" for each of those, but this probably isn't the intended interpretation)
> Notwithstanding any other provision of this License, for material you add to a covered work, you may [...] supplement the terms of this License with terms:
> b) Requiring preservation of specified reasonable legal notices or author attributions in that material or in the Appropriate Legal Notices displayed by works containing it; or c) Prohibiting misrepresentation of the origin of that material, or requiring that modified versions of such material be marked in reasonable ways as different from the original version; or
This is what they did and what the other part stripped from their blatant copy. So no, removing the logo or the OnlyOffice terms therefore seems forbidden by the license itself, revoking it for the other part, thus they are now making a counterfeit.
> "Additional permissions" are terms that supplement the terms of this License by making exceptions from one or more of its conditions
It can disallow downstream licensees from doing things with it, it can't prevent the copyright holder and licensor.
> If I understand correctly, the FSF has even directly threatened legal action against developers who add extra restrictions to the AGPL. The license text is copyrighted, does not allow modifications, and includes terms allowing the user to ignore any additional restrictions, so adding extra restrictions would seem to either be ineffective or a copyright violation.
If it's a copyright violation of a copyright on the license, that has no effect on the effect of the license between the licensor and licensee, though it may result in money being owed by the licensor to the copyright holder on the license.
OTOH, I think any US court would find that a party trying to control the legal effect of licensing arrangements between third parties by leveraging a copyright on license text is, itself, a fairly strong indication that the particular use of the license text at issue is outside of the scope of copyright protection. That's not protecting expression, it is instead creating a roadblock to the freedom of contract.
Its funny to be relying on copyright licenses when what people really want to to do is rewrite the law, but that's a different issue.
| You may not impose any further restrictions on the exercise of the rights granted or affirmed under this License.
[1] https://www.neowin.net/news/libreoffice-blasts-fake-open-sou...
[2] https://github.com/Euro-Office#euro-office-liberates-the-onl...
(if OnlyOffice is really all their code and not some other re-forked AGPL code. I haven't looked.)
If so, why?
edit: did not expect people to be in favor of blatantly ignoring licenses. huh.
anyone want to tell me how we determine who the bad people are that we can ignore their licenses, and who the good people are where we will honor them? what is the criteria?
I'm not in favor of ignoring licenses, but practically speaking, they require legal nexus to function.
It's not like Russia currently respects the Rule of Law.
but... we do?
the argument is apparently that we also should ignore the rule of law. i dont think that would be a great idea for society, but i am just some dude.
my thinking is that once you start selectively applying rule of law to "good guys" and "bad guys" (or whatever criteria you pick), you have lost something really important. fingers crossed no one ever alters the criteria such that you fall on the "wrong" side!
This is how the world already works. We do not inhabit an egalitarian utopia. There quite literally are bad guys.
When you treat everyone like good guys, you end up with Donald Trump as the president instead of in jail.
so, sure, fuck licenses. if someone pisses you off, just say they were born in the wrong country and steal their shit. thankfully i am retiring soon, so i probably wont see the winners of this race to the bottom.
There are so many laws around the world that apply to "websites", that currently, you can't operate any sort of online presence anymore without at least implicitly picking and choosing which laws on the planet that you're going to follow. Nobody hires hundreds of lawyers in every country of the world to comply with every website law on the planet, and if you did, I bet you'd find you probably can't practically operate one.
For example, the forum that we're on right now, doesn't comply with this law (although I believe HN blocks China anyway): https://www.cac.gov.cn/2022-06/17/c_1657089000974111.htm
In reality, people hire a lawyer in the jurisdictions where they have legal exposure and follow those laws.
This isn't to say that you should ignore software licenses, but rather sometimes, they're toothless instruments.
>This isn't to say that you should ignore software licenses, [...]
the main/only reason that i started this comment chain, and continued it, is that the other commenters are saying you should (if they are from the "wrong" country, anyways).
> am too old to expend energy trying to convince people that the rule of law loses all meaning if it is selectively applied.
Again, for what feels like the third or fourth time, this is already happening all over the globe.
It's an open secret, for example, that the AI companies trained their models on pirated textbooks. It's not even an open secret, just the bare-faced truth, that the AI companies trained and continue to train on source-available software without regards for license. It's common knowledge that Russian and Chinese companies (among others) benefit from state-sponsored corporate espionage and sanctioned software piracy. The Rule of Law is dead in many countries, including the United States.
There's literally nothing to be gained by not following suit. You can't pay your rent with ethics.
this is weird logic. scams happen every minute of every day all over the globe, i do not advocate for more people to scam.
>It's an open secret, for example, that the AI companies trained their models on pirated textbooks.
yeah, and that was wrong.
>You can't pay your rent with ethics.
this is a sad sentence.
I don't disagree, but I'm talking about the real world that we inhabit, not the fictional idealized world we wistfully discuss in classrooms.
The world is a shitty place full of shitty people. Being an idealist is just asking to be taken advantage of.
you can live in the real world without stealing software from people and justifying it because they were born in the "wrong" country.
i have done it my entire life.
"two wrongs dont make a right" is a pretty simple rule to live by, even in the real world. perhaps unsurprisingly, it is also good for ones mental health.
different in severity, but same logic.
> the entire fabric deteriorates quickly afterwards.
It just disproves this entirely. China has been at it for decades, which entire fabric has detoriated? Have licenses been meaningless for decades because of the existence of China?
the moral fabric of not stealing software and ignoring licenses.
>Have licenses been meaningless for decades because of the existence of China?
uh, in china? apparently yes!
if that is how you want the rest of the world to operate too, that is your opinion. i think it will suck, but whatever.
selectively applied law is fun when the laws are selectively applied against people you dont like. just gotta make sure you never get put in the wrong pile.
This is a very mainstream concept so I'm not sure why you're so worked up about it.
i am not worked up, but that is a good attempt at undermining my point by coming at me personally instead of my words.
2. Even if you fork a project in complete compliance with a software license, a software license doesn't grant you an ongoing business partnership
The part of the license violated was the removal of OnlyOffice's trademark and branding. Yet their license does not provide a right to use their trademark and branding. Those rights are still fully reserved by OnlyOffice.
This allows OnlyOffice to use legal means to shut down any fork or changes they are not comfortable with.
Still, you can (and often will) terminate a business partnership over BS arguments.
Usually it does, barring contractual obligations otherwise
i assume when they asked "legal way", contractual obligations was what they were referring to.
That's fair, I'd just argue it's akin to to Red Hat's current model of "All of our code is free and open source...but if any of our business subscribers share it, we will terminate their license."
[1]: https://www.gnu.org/licenses/agpl-3.0.txt
[2]: https://github.com/ONLYOFFICE/core/blob/master/LICENSE.txt
[3]: https://github.com/ONLYOFFICE/onlyoffice-nextcloud/blob/mast...
https://web.archive.org/web/20160114094744/https://www.gnu.o...
- ONLYOFFICE is under AGPLv3 since 2016.
- AGPLv3 requires source disclosure, preserving the license, and keeping copyright notices.
- Section 7 lets ONLYOFFICE add conditions: keep the logo and no trademark use.
- You must follow all license terms, including these extra conditions, to legally use or distribute the software.
- Ignoring these conditions is a license breach and copyright infringement.
Good thing that the license says in section 7: “[…] When you convey a copy of a covered work, you may at your option remove any additional permissions [“terms that supplement the terms of this License by making exceptions from one or more of its conditions”] from that copy, or from any part of it. […]”
But, same result, because it also says:
> If the Program as you received it, or any part of it, contains a notice stating that it is governed by this License along with a term that is a further restriction, you may remove that term.
A restriction stating "you must keep branding" can be ignored. What you can require, is attribution.
> [you may] supplement the terms of this License with terms: > >[...] > > b) Requiring preservation of specified reasonable legal notices or > author attributions in that material or in the Appropriate Legal > Notices displayed by works containing it; or > > c) Prohibiting misrepresentation of the origin of that material, or > requiring that modified versions of such material be marked in > reasonable ways as different from the original version; or > > d) Limiting the use for publicity purposes of names of licensors or > authors of the material; or > > e) Declining to grant rights under trademark law for use of some > trade names, trademarks, or service marks;
So the requirement of branding and attribution aren't "further restriction" (which, in this context, means a restriction that is not in the AGPLv3 license text). It's after section 7's list of allowed restrictions, which, paragraph b, contains "require preservation of [...] legal notices or [...] attributions", paragraph d is made to prevent misuse of the original author reputation, and paragraph e to prevent misuse of trademarks, so they, IMHO, are all legitimate.
These are different things.
However, I did glance at the repo and I don't see any attributions, either.
> - Section 7 lets ONLYOFFICE add conditions: keep the logo and no trademark use.
Section 7 allows you to add permissions, but it prohibits any restrictions beyond the options listed in section 7.
If you look at the repo, it looks like the did fail to include author attributions, as far as I can see. The source files need to say they were originally written by OO. That's what author attribution means.
https://github.com/Euro-Office#euro-office-liberates-the-onl...
This seems like a corruption of "you can't have your cake and eat it too." I'm somewhat confused as you can definitely both bake a pie and eat it too. Or are you trying to make some kind of point that I'm missing?
If you don't, I would advise you to at least attempt doing so.
are neowin and nextcloud affiliated somehow? or which nextcloud blog are you referring to?
This isn't rhetorical. I don't know which is worse. I lean disliking Microsoft more, because jazz hands at Windows11, and OnlyOffice at least runs on Linux, but it's still not a fun position to be in.
LibreOffice and other alts definitely don't have as good of Docx compat.
These projects seem to be really struggling with the Freedom part of Free Software.