69 pointsby nixass9 hours ago5 comments
  • silisili7 hours ago
    I'm pretty uneasy about legal action against the subscribers themselves. If you can prove intent, maybe? But I'd argue many or even most don't realize they're doing anything illegal.

    These IPTV companies, in my experience, never advertise that it's illegal. It's just give us money for a lot of TV channels, just like a cable company does.

    • hn_throwaway_996 hours ago
      I'm not familiar with how these IPTV companies market their services, but I'm extremely skeptical of the notion that people don't realize they're buying something illegal when they're paying a small percentage of what the services themselves would cost.

      It's like those folks that sold bootleg DVDs out of their trenchcoats in Manhattan - the defense of "gosh, I never knew buying a just-released-in-theaters Hollywood blockbuster for $5 by some dude on the side of Broadway was illegal" was never going to fly.

      • silisili5 hours ago
        > don't realize they're buying something illegal when they're paying a small percentage of what the services themselves would cost

        Possibly, but not always. When Red Pocket and the other cheap mvnos came around, people were skeptical for the same reason - but it was all above board.

        Pricing depends on sales channel and price. If you slum the dregs of shady marketplaces, you can get it for like 3 or 4 bucks a month. But in more mainstream settings, resellers often try to charge as much as 20 or 30 (or more) per month which isn't quite as drastic.

        In the US, a few people in my mom's friend circle were raving about their 'magic box.' It cost a couple hundred but got TV, so they were happy. AFAICT it's some shady actors buying cheap android boxes and flashing some iptv software with service preconfigured. These people don't even know they're using iptv.

        • Macha5 hours ago
          They’re literally calling dodgy boxes here by both the consumers and sellers. Look, make the case in court if you want, you might get off with a slap, and nobody’s rooting for the big bad corporation here either, but nobody is under any illusions that these are legal
      • echoangle6 hours ago
        > It's like those folks that sold bootleg DVDs out of their trenchcoats in Manhattan - the defense of "gosh, I never knew buying a just-released-in-theaters Hollywood blockbuster for $5 by some dude on the side of Broadway was illegal" was never going to fly.

        Is buying bootleg DVDs actually illegal? Isn’t the thing protected by copyright distribution? The seller is doing the distribution, I’m only buying it so it’s fine, no?

      • koyote5 hours ago
        It's definitely a gray area in some countries.

        A few decades ago our family got a 'proper' company with a shop front to install a satellite dish for us. We were then able to watch the Sky Tv from the UK even though we were not based in the UK (we still paid for a subscription but it was billed to a proxy address). This was the 'gray' part of what the company was selling.

        What they also sold was sattv boxes with integrated decryption that would allow you to watch pretty much any European Pay TV (albeit not Sky, as they used a more robust encryption scheme) for free. They never mentioned the legality of it but they definitely advertised it as something they openly sold (in shop and in their ads).

      • lurkshark4 hours ago
        It’s a little different because it’s easy for these IPTV pirates to whip up slick branding. Something more like if a guy in a nice looking uniform for a DVD company you hadn’t heard of offered to sell you movies. Especially for folks who aren’t very internet savvy, it can be easy to miss the subtle tells that an offering isn’t legit (even more so when the service works just fine)
      • xtracto6 hours ago
        More like buying the hacked DirecTV Sim cards.
      • shiroiuma2 hours ago
        >but I'm extremely skeptical of the notion that people don't realize they're buying something illegal when they're paying a small percentage of what the services themselves would cost.

        Why? There's lots of cases where there's much-cheaper alternatives. I have a mobile phone plan that costs a small fraction of what most of my coworkers pay, because I didn't get a full-service unlimited plan with a subsidized new-every-2-years phone, for instance. Is my phone company hacking into the other company's system to give me service? Who knows, but I trust the government regulators and judicial system enough to assume this isn't happening, or else the company they're riding on the back of would have the service stopped. In reality, low-cost mobile services like this contract with the big carriers to use their spare capacity, and the service is basically 2nd-class too.

        It's not a consumer's job to know how businesses operate internally or if they're doing something illegal.

      • vaginaphobic6 hours ago
        [dead]
    • HtmlProgrammeran hour ago
      People refer to them as “dodgy boxes”. They know it’s illegal and no one cares.

      Everyone in the country knows this and either has one or a family member has one

  • pjc507 hours ago
    Huh, Ireland has copied English law so precisely that it also has Norwich Pharmacal and Anton Pillar orders?

    (De anonymozation of third parties and non-crime search warrants respectively)

    • roomey5 hours ago
      What do you mean by copied? Ireland was colonised by the English for many years, and was part of their common law system during that period.

      When it became independent, all laws weren't suddenly repealed, some were just ammended over time (as any common law system does). It's my understanding that Irish Courts can still refer to court cases from other common law countries in terms of precidence, even now

    • 6 hours ago
      undefined
    • pjriot6 hours ago
      I guess that the legal framework that enables the orders was inherited by the Irish state. (according to wikipedia the orders can be made in Canada and Australia too)
  • AuthAuth4 hours ago
    Sky should sue the AI companies if they want to protect their copyright. Anything else is a joke and an insult to fair laws.
  • zoklet-enjoyer5 hours ago
    Home Taping Is Killing Music
    • amiga3862 hours ago
      We left side 2 blank so you can help
  • Asooka7 hours ago
    Good. The internet is meant to uplift human society, not enable petty theft. If only they could have gone after each thief to take back the money they stole.
    • RiverCrochet7 hours ago
      Non-sequitur. The Internet only enables the copying of bits and not their theft, as the original bits aren't removed from their source. A remote-copy-and-delete might be considered a theft, but Bittorrent has no delete provisions and that's not really inherent to the infrastructure of the Internet per se (e.g. your network card can't physically make bits on the other side in storage disappear).
      • orbisvicis7 hours ago
        For example:

        Good. The internet is meant to uplift human society, not enable petty theft. If only they could have gone after each thief to take back the money they stole.

        - signed, not-Asooka

        • JadeNB7 hours ago
          There's a difference between "I am the creator of this content [that I actually didn't create]" and "I am enjoying this content that I did not create." One could argue that it matters, in the latter case, whether you are enjoying the content in a manner with the creator's intention of how you enjoyed it, but, to state one among many possible responses, it is far from clear when I consume media through approved channels that that accurately represents how the creator would prefer I enjoy it.
    • orbisvicis7 hours ago
      That's why I don't feel bad pirating textbooks.
      • lo_zamoyski5 hours ago
        Screw the author's labor, eh?
        • horsawlarway4 hours ago
          Well, this is part of the problem. Sometimes "the author's labor" amounts to reordering questions at the back to mark it as new revision and charge 150+ usd for a book that should have been $20 brand new, and is only purchased because it's a required title in a required class to get a piece of paper required for employment.

          In that case... Fuck yes. Screw the author's "labor". Arguably, screw the whole damn system.

          ---

          Copyright rarely helps small authors who actually need it.

          It usually gets employed by conglomerates that own distribution and are already screwing authors as hard as they think they can get away with.

          It's genuinely a pretty terrible system in its current form.

          We can do better.

        • amiga3862 hours ago
          Yes. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feist_Publications,_Inc._v._Ru.... - "sweat of the brow" does not confer copyright, only creativity does.

          More to the point: the reason you find so many people advocating for pirating textbooks specifically, is because textbooks have often been used by authors/institutions/publishers to fleece students:

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Textbook#New_editions_and_the_...

          > Some textbook companies have countered [the second hand market] by encouraging teachers to assign homework that must be done on the publisher's website. Students with a new textbook can use the pass code in the book to register on the site; otherwise they must pay the publisher to access the website and complete assigned homework.

          > Harvard economics chair James K. Stock has stated that new editions are often not about significant improvements to the content. "New editions are to a considerable extent simply another tool used by publishers and textbook authors to maintain their revenue stream, that is, to keep up prices."

          Students can tell when they're being scammed, and are more than happy to go to war with scammers such as these.

        • 0dayz4 hours ago
          Who's labor wad exploited by said publisher?

          I would personally love and do support ethical publishers /companies and authors themselves but I refuse to engage with the exploiting kind, since there is effectively little difference between them and pirates.

    • hsbauauvhabzban hour ago
      This isn’t as clear cut as pirating a book, movie or a game. If you pirate one of those, your intent is probably to consume it. Buying an IPTV subscription does not clearly indicate that you’re intending to pirate some specific channel, in fact there’s no guarantee that you’re not consuming something licensed under Creative Commons.
    • KumaBear7 hours ago
      Buddy we’d still be listening to cds if pirating didn’t exist.
    • Telaneo5 hours ago
      /s?
    • tene80i7 hours ago
      You’ll find that a pretty unpopular attitude around here (hence the downvoting on your comment, and I assume mine shortly), but you are right.
      • echoangle6 hours ago
        It’s unpopular because it’s a bad argument. It’s not theft because you don’t take anything away. You just create a copy and don’t pay for it, but that’s not theft.
        • hrimfaxi6 hours ago
          It might not be theft but it's not nothing either. Manslaughter isn't murder but someone still died. Copying might not be theft but you're still taking something you didn't pay for.
          • amiga3865 hours ago
            Then use an accurate legal term for it, "copyright infringement", or a pejorative that both supporters and detractors agree on, e.g. "piracy"
            • somat5 hours ago
              But it's not piracy either. People just want to make the crime sound worse then "infringement" Might as well call it "software rape" as that crime is closer to what is being done than than theft or piracy.
          • zenoprax5 hours ago
            It is an infringement on one's right to control the reproduction and distribution of their intellectual property.

            This right is enforced by the authority that grants it. Viewing, listening, or otherwise 'consuming' this IP is not and cannot be an infringement on these rights. Those who provide are responsible.

            If a country does not grant or enforce this right (or on behalf of others) then there is no infringment possible in that jurisdiction. cf. China or Russia.

            Moral arguments beyond that are your own and should be clearly segregated from the law. Murder is, almost universally, both criminal and wrong. "Piracy" requires more attention to detail in order to have productive conversations.

        • DrJokepu5 hours ago
          A spy steals secrets. Credit can be stolen from you by your boss. Your competitor steals your ideas. In colloquial usage, theft is the act of stealing. The legal term is copyright infringement.
          • DangitBobbyan hour ago
            When you "steal" a secret, it's not longer a secret. When you "steal" credit, the original thinker no longer gets credit. In both cases, the thing itself was destroyed: in the former, the secret is no longer a secret at all and in the latter the boss will no longer be considered the mastermind behind the idea. When you "pirate" something the original copy remains and the creator retains it and the rights to sell copies of it and will still benefit from selling copies. It's not theft.