42 pointsby dryarzeg6 hours ago5 comments
  • hedora4 hours ago
    This comment is particularly concerning (as is the functionality regression implied by this new "more secure" approach):

    > This means for example, that an encrypted system must use an ext4 /boot partition; it is no longer possible to encrypt the /boot partition.

    So, they want to let attackers modify /boot, including grub.conf and the kernel command line? This is better? Look at all these fun knobs attackers will be able to turn!

    https://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/x86/x86_64/boot-opt...

    This lets you disable machine check exceptions + the iommu. That means it'll force people to use a configuration that lets attackers stick a memory probe hardware device into the system + bypass a bunch of hardware security checks. Nice!

    I also found module.sig_enforce which lets the attacker disable kernel module signature verification. Sadly, I couldn't find anything that lets you directly load a kernel module from /boot.

    However, init.rd lives in /boot. I wonder if its signature is verified or not. At the very least, this approach implies that attackers can piecemeal downgrade stuff early in the boot process.

    • evan_a_aan hour ago
      encryption does not protect against malicious modification; authentication does.
    • izacus2 hours ago
      All those switches and we still can't disable kernel lockdown when hibernation is enabled with secure boot.
  • longislandguido4 hours ago
    Have they replaced it with grub-rs yet?

    On a more serious note, grub is ancient bloatware, it is way overcomplicated for what it does, it's asking to be replaced by systemd-boot distro-wide.

    Look at Apple and Microsoft's bootloaders, they are dead simple and have barely changed in 20 years, it makes you wonder how the hell grub was even conceived. It has config files for config files.

    grub tries to do the kitchen sink. But we live in a UEFI world now. Boot is simple. None of that is necessary anymore.

    • pixl974 hours ago
      > it makes you wonder how the hell grub was even conceived

      I'm wondering how much was interop with trying to boot multiple operating systems off the same disk?

      • justsomehnguyan hour ago
        In the last 5 years I had too many times when I need to spend literally hours to properly boot the same OS it was installed with. Booting the Win*-like is just a matter of chain loading for CSM or straight pointing to bootmgr.efi on UEFI systems.
    • unixheroan hour ago
      Grub does suck yes. The only boot loader on uefi I like is refind https://www.rodsbooks.com/refind/
    • drooopy4 hours ago
      Bring back Lilo!
    • plagiarist4 hours ago
      I'd like a better boot manager but I sure as hell do not want systemd cancer to spread any further. Especially not after Poettering has started a remote attestation company.
      • sourcegrift2 hours ago
        Wow, when did he leave microsoft? (I know some might be asking when he joined lol)
      • longislandguido4 hours ago
        systemd-boot is only similar to systemd in name; it started as another project and was renamed.
        • mirashii4 hours ago
          It’s been merged into the systemd project, so one must assume that the systemd maintainers have some level of influence over it.
          • longislandguido4 hours ago
            Remind me why I'm supposed to care who the maintainer is for a piece of software that runs for a few seconds then gets tf out of the way.
            • dirasieb31 minutes ago
              because it “runs for a few seconds” until the maintainers decide it should run for a few minutes, see init for an example
            • logicchains4 hours ago
              Because they're going to try to use it to make it impossible for you to run an operating system that isn't spyware.
              • bitwizean hour ago
                Sir, this is a Wendy's
              • longislandguido2 hours ago
                Fortunately your doctor has medication for this.
              • ethin3 hours ago
                Can you actually definitively prove this, or is this just more fearmongering from the anti-systemd crowd that I at least don't at all take seriously?
                • dirasieb29 minutes ago
                  it is really fearmongering when the systemd people literally founded a company to develop attestation for linux?

                  at some point you people need to stop pretending it’s all just a slippery “slope fallacy” every single time they push for more control

              • fluffybucktsnek3 hours ago
                Now that's rich. Are you indirectly telling us that Arch Linux and NixOS are spyware?
  • gorgoiler4 hours ago
    Regarding dropping support for a LUKS encrypted /boot, one of the comments chimes in with “[but] full disk encryption is mandatory in many environments in Europe for security conformity”.

    Surely some user editable data has to be stored in plaintext to be able to boot a system? Does grub.cfg need to be signed by the trust chain to be able to boot?

    • ahartmetz4 hours ago
      When I hear full disk encryption, I think of what I'm using: Using the encryption feature of the disk with a password / keyphrase prompt built into the system firmware (UEFI). It is 100% transparent to any software.

      The only major downside is that you need to trust the hardware manufacturer (and their FIPS certification), which is fine for my purposes, but might not be fine for state secrets or extremely valuable trade secrets.

      • pona-aan hour ago
        I don't know if FIPS standards have improved, but combining my priors about products boasting FIPS and manufacturer code quality in general, I would actively not trust it with any data.
        • ahartmetz35 minutes ago
          Works just fine for legal ass coverage
  • Zardoz844 hours ago
    I glad that I moved to green pastures... Aka Debian.
    • theandrewbailey2 hours ago
      If Ubuntu, the most widely used distro, is doing this, it's conceivable that other distros will follow. (Maintainers: "It solved some problems Ubuntu was having, so it will probably solve them for us, too.")
      • tmtvl2 hours ago
        Yea, like when Ubuntu switched from System V init to Upstart. Or when they created Mir to replace X. Or when they created Snap for distro-independent packages. Or when they forked GNOME into Unity.

        ...man, when did Ubuntu start losing every battle they fought?

        • estimator7292an hour ago
          When they started slipping ads into aptitude. I think that's when most of us started giving Canonical the side-eye
    • hedora4 hours ago
      This sort of crap keeps getting upstreamed into Debian.

      Consider devuan for your next machine. I've switched almost all my linux boxes to it, and it's great.

      • opengrass11 minutes ago
        Up voted for Devuan. Getting services to work is a hassle but really easy after using the same template for start/stops.
  • unmayx4 hours ago
    [dead]