55 pointsby mikhael3 hours ago9 comments
  • ryandrake2 hours ago
    How do they justify Immigration and Customs enforcement working domestic flights and departures in general? Isn't ICE's scope supposed to be limited to what/who is coming into the country from foreign countries?

    Of course, that's a rhetorical question. When you're an autocrat, you do not need to justify your actions.

    • gsnedders2 hours ago
      ICE’s scope isn’t who is coming into the country — that’s CBP’s scope. ICE’s scope is supposed to be those committing immigration offences who have already entered the country (either because the CBP failed to catch them, or because they were admitted but never left).

      The only difficulty justifying this is ICE’s power to stop and question people, and an airport is no different to a random street from that point of view. Do they have probable cause? What suffices as probable cause?

      And once you have probable cause, you run into the problem 8 USC 1304(e) creates: someone who doesn’t have documentation proving their legal immigration status falls into one of two categories, they’re either a citizen, or they’re an immigrant violating that section.

      (And this is looking at it from a simple legalistic point of view, ignoring any questions about ICE’s behaviour or powers!)

      • general14652 hours ago
        > And once you have probable cause, you run into the problem 8 USC 1304(e) creates: someone who doesn’t have documentation proving their legal immigration status falls into one of two categories, they’re either a citizen, or they’re an immigrant violating that section.

        So hopefully if you are tourist from abroad, CBP will give you stamp into your passport, otherwise you have entered "illegally". They are not always stamping passports.

        • paulddraper2 hours ago
          Isn’t the stamp necessary?

          Under what circumstances would they not?

          • general14652 hours ago
            CBP is doing it electronically for quite some time, as they can see your date of entry in the system and they are not controlling your date of leave against passport when you are leaving USA (you won't even meet CBP at that stage), but it is all checked electronically.

            Last time I got stamped. But it seems like an exception than a rule.

            https://www.swlaw.com/publication/immigration-alert-cbp-elim...

            I can already see myself arguing with ICE officer that CBP is not stamping passport for years.

      • spindleworld2 hours ago
        [dead]
    • Buttons8402 hours ago
      ICE has a lot of funding, more than some branches of the military.

      This demonstrates they see ICE as their fix all police force, and that they are willing to deploy ICE to do whatever they think needs to be done.

      • paulddraper2 hours ago
        ICE is $11B.

        Coast Guard is $14B.

        • selectodudean hour ago
          Not sure if you’ve recently awoken from a coma but ICE just got $75 billion in appropriations to spend over the next four years.
          • 34 minutes ago
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    • paulddraper2 hours ago
      Virtually all commercial passenger flights are to international airports.
      • ryandrake2 hours ago
        At least in the large airports, the international flights come in to a separate terminal. Will ICE limit their involvement to that terminal only, and only inbound flights? Immigration and Customs have no business on the outbound side or with domestic passengers.
        • alexfoo2 hours ago
          Some international flights arrive in to domestic US terminals. These are from a limited set of countries where passengers have cleared US immigration in the departure country.

          Canada, Ireland and the UAE are the major three, plus Aruba, Barbados and Bermuda.

        • smilebot2 hours ago
          Since they will support tsa operations, I’m going to assume they will be at the outbound security checkpoints. Both domestic and international.
  • mullingitover2 hours ago
    Seems like a big own-goal for the administration to inject an agency which (according to polls[1]) is quite broadly hated into the daily lives of millions.

    Politically they're just going from failure (immigration policy broadly considered a failure) to failure (starting a new forever war in the middle east is universally hated) to failure (this).

    It's no wonder they're trying to burn the election system to the ground to prevent a fair election from occurring this year. It's the only way they're staying out of jail, especially Tom "cash bribes only" Homan.

    [1] https://maristpoll.marist.edu/polls/the-actions-of-ice-febru...

    • Buttons84024 minutes ago
      If they ever need a group to enforce their election ~~laws~~ executive orders, I wonder what group they might choose?
    • paulddraper2 hours ago
      How did they get elected?
      • apothegm2 hours ago
        Misinformation, low voter turnout, and an electoral system that massively over-represents people living in areas of low population density and underrepresents those living in areas of high population density.

        That’s ignoring any possibility of interference with insecure voting or tallying computers.

        • altairprime29 minutes ago
          Don’t forget racism. This administration got elected in large part because they are openly racist, delivering outcomes at a velocity that ‘Southern’ dog-whistle deniability doesn’t allow for those that do, for whatever reason, want to continue having positive or neutral reputation with those opposed to racism (which includes half of U.S. women, or more if you limit to those younger than 30) while also benefiting personally from racism’s privileges to them and their families.
        • Buttons84023 minutes ago
          We need paper ballots because people can understand them. Election conspiracy theories are becoming a problem. Having a counting process that people can understand and trust is a feature.
      • mullingitoveran hour ago
        You could blame the backing of the richest oligarchs in the world, you could blame a morally bankrupt culture amongst a large chunk of the electorate, but at the end of the day it was a very tight race and there was a global wave of incumbent losses[1], regardless of the incumbent party's position.

        Between 2021 and 2024 the world went on a rollercoaster ride. Pandemic economic stimulus made everyone feel rich in 2021, and then harsh monetary tightening led to everyone feeling like their world was collapsing in 2024. They punished whoever was in charge at the time.

        [1] https://www.visionofhumanity.org/2024-the-year-incumbent-gov...

      • Schmerika2 hours ago
        Democrats funded, armed and protected a live-streamed genocide so horrific that roughly a third of their own hard-core base (Biden 2020 voters) couldn't bring themselves to vote for Harris, even in a close race against Trump [0].

        There are other reasons Dems lost, also important. Still, genocide remains the blazing neon-red 12-ton elephant in the room. And there seems to be absolutely no sign of owning that fact, which means that no lessons will be learned or policies changed.

        0 - https://www.imeupolicyproject.org/postelection-polling

  • yodon2 hours ago
    For all its flaws, TSA (at least under previous administrations) did a lot of design thinking work around how to streamline flows through airports, minimize travel stress and conflict, and optimize to minimize traveler complaints while continuing to maintain security.

    Bringing in shock theater optimized staff is a particularly poor fit for a scenario that will impact a disproportionately voting and bipartisan pool of citizens.

    There's a reason advertising in airports is generally targeted at corporate leaders and decision makers.

    • ryandrake2 hours ago
      If your goal is to intimidate and frighten people into submitting to you, then sending armed, masked "shock theater" thugs in should accomplish that goal.
    • themafia2 hours ago
      > while continuing to maintain security.

      They continued to maintain the illusion of security. The underwear bomber and shoe bomber had no problem smuggling explosives onto an aircraft directly under their noses.

      Their idea of "security" is to get you into a scanner so they can stare at and save images of your naked body. Or to buy really expensive "sniffer" robots that don't work in one of the most corrupt government contracts recently known about.

      Meanwhile, cockpit doors still have several functional deficiencies that make pilots vulnerable to the original attack that led to the creation of this derelict agency.

  • rdegges2 hours ago
    Straight white US citizen male here. This scares the shit out of me. I travel for work all the time, but understanding that we will now have barely trained, and in many cases completely lawless, consequence-free federal officers in direct, high stress, public areas where lots of people are constantly passing through seems like an absolute recipe for tragedy.

    This will 100% make me reconsider travel and avoid airports with ICE agents. I think the writing on the wall is clear, nobody is safe.

    • zthrowaway2 hours ago
      [flagged]
      • rdegges2 hours ago
        Throwaway accounts and more propaganda isn’t proof of anything. I think it’s pretty clear that untrained, unaccountable armed people who have already killed multiple US citizens that they have no jurisdiction over is a real-world worry that people have.

        It’s silly to dismiss rational, logic-based worry as “propaganda”.

        • zthrowaway2 hours ago
          Yes US citizens that are putting themselves in a situation they shouldn’t have been in to begin with while threatening and provoking a violent reaction. And we pikachu face at the result.

          You’re the one cowering in fear of federal agents doing what they’ve already been doing for 20 years. One of us is obviously falling for the fear mongering here.

          • rdegges2 hours ago
            > Yes US citizens that are putting themselves in a situation they shouldn’t have been in to begin with while threatening and provoking a violent reaction.

            This is not at all true. Plus, it's inconsequential -- ICE agents have no authority over US citizens except in extremely limited circumstances (https://www.perplexity.ai/search/9f4518c4-8a32-474a-bd92-3f1...), and even if they did, being able to arrest someone, file charges, and work their way through the justice system is the answer... Not killing people on the streets.

      • biophysboy2 hours ago
        how many habeas petitions were there in previous admins?
  • vjvjvjvjghv2 hours ago
    Seems ICE is basically just a slush fund to use wherever they see fit.
  • vkou2 hours ago
    Keep in mind that the Democrats have proposed five bills to fund the TSA, and the Republicans have shot them all down.

    This reichstag fire is manufactured.

    • 0xy2 hours ago
      Democrats are explicitly opposed to a clean DHS funding bill with no changes.
      • selectodude2 hours ago
        As they should be. I don’t want to fund DHS and I’m happy my reps are doing their job to keep it shut down. Funding TSA specifically is acceptable and has in fact been voted down in the senate by republicans several times now.
        • 0xy2 hours ago
          Why do you oppose FEMA funding?
          • aaomidi3 minutes ago
            FEMA does not and should not be a part of DHS. Good try though.
          • selectodude2 hours ago
            What’s left of FEMA? Anyway their disaster response is not impacted by the lapse in funding. They’re currently on the ground doing something or other in Hawaii.
      • rdegges2 hours ago
        This is straight up untrue. There are clean bill proposals to fund TSA that Republicans have rejected. https://www.perplexity.ai/search/are-the-proposed-tsa-fundin...
      • KaiserPro2 hours ago
        > They aren't clean bills, so this is absolutely irrelevant.

        I mean its not really irrelevant, its a calculated move from both sides.

      • vkou2 hours ago
        Their bills are the clean bills. Yesterday's vote was a simple yea or nay for TSA funding. The Republicans voted against it.

        The GOP refuses to fund the TSA without tying a whole bunch of other fascist shit to it. This crisis is manufactured.

        • 0xy2 hours ago
          Democrats will not vote for a clean DHS funding bill. Kicking the can on FEMA funding is one hell of a political gambit.
          • vkou2 hours ago
            They'll vote for a clean TSA funding bill. Why are the reps tying all the star chamber shit they are doing with ICE to TSA funding?
            • 0xy2 hours ago
              Cool, so no FEMA funding. Good luck with the next disaster everyone, Democrats are politically grandstanding again.
              • vkou2 hours ago
                I'm sure they'll vote for a clean FEMA bill, too.
                • 0xy2 hours ago
                  Huh? The Democrats bill did not include FEMA funding.
                  • vkou2 hours ago
                    Give them a clean FEMA bill, and they'll vote for it.
  • java-man3 hours ago
    Step 2 in a nazi takeover of the United States. More is coming.
    • Buttons8402 hours ago
      I don't know if I'd phrase it like that. It does show they see ICE as a fix all police they can deploy for a wide variety of purposes though. ICE is better funded than some branches of the military, and they are demonstrating they are willing to use ICE for whatever they think needs to be done.
      • password543212 hours ago
        It is clear that a more centralised system is being established which is progression towards authoritarianism.
  • LightBug12 hours ago
    The US tourism industry must be just lapping this up ...

    "Visit the USA ... starting your holiday off wiv your papers, and a bang! Schnell !!! "

  • zoklet-enjoyer2 hours ago
    This country is a shithole