133 pointsby anjel10 hours ago20 comments
  • Aurornis10 hours ago
    I only had time to skim the paper. Notably, the effect is concentration dependent and required high concentrations of THC. The chart shows it really starting in the 0.1uM range and then taking off in the 1uM range.

    I don’t know what levels are achieved during normal use but I did find some studies that successfully killed a lot of hippocampal neuronal cells after 6 days at 1uM range. So the levels of THC observed in this study appear to be in the same range where things start getting really disrupted in cells.

    In other words, don’t expect to replicate these results with normal recreational use.

    • __alexsan hour ago
      In vitro studies are not so great for establishing threshold doses surely?
    • KennyBlanken4 hours ago
      I suppose this might be why Willie Nelson is still doing pretty good these days...
      • aswegs8an hour ago
        You might have replied to the wrong comment. OP implied it would have no impact
        • vercaemertan hour ago
          The joke is that Willie Nelson has used very high concentrations simultaneously frying his brain cells and staving off Alzheimer's.
          • wavefunction4 minutes ago
            Willie Nelson is pretty sharp for his age. I compare him to the much younger President of the United States who blathers absolute nonsense constantly despite no known history of cannabis use and a claimed history of abstaining from all substances.
    • mrosett8 hours ago
      Reminds me of this classic: https://xkcd.com/1217/
      • simonhan hour ago
        New studies show that research is a leading cause of cancer in rats.
      • farmdawgnation7 hours ago
        There may not be many constants in this life, especially in this day and age, but I do find it humbling that "there is always an xkcd for that" holds true.
    • jojobas8 hours ago
      Can't have Alzheimer's if you don't have much of a brain left.
      • throwaway274488 hours ago
        Can you explain the joke?
        • lithocarpus7 hours ago
          If the doses of cannabis required to cure alzheimers would be high enough doses to destroy the rest of one's brain, it makes this finding not very useful, similar to the idea of curing alzheimers by destroying one's brain/
          • otherme1232 hours ago
            But the studies are pervasive. For example, the (flawed) study that found that one cup of wine with each meal was healthier that no alcohol at all is still quoted today, and still "reproduced" in other studies that make the same claim but adding a clause of "given that you also [do good amount of exercise|eat very healthy|are in perfect health already]". Or the flawed studies that Soffriti and Belpoggi pushed (some of them didn't even pass peer review, but reached the public anyway) about artificial sweeteners and other things being carcinogenic: they basically feed mices with whatever they feel until they die, they look the corpses and if there is a tumor, eureka: what they put in the diet is the cause. Nobody took the studies seriously, except the public that now have a "scientific paper" that says Coca-cola causes breast cancer.

            In this case some public reads "smoking a joint daily equals invulnerable to Alzheimer, science says so".

          • Spivak7 hours ago
            Synthetic cannaboids were also studied as a possible analgesic and at the doses required it caused brain damage. Which is honestly disappointing because a general purpose pain killer that isn't opioid based would be a miracle.
            • thin_carapace2 hours ago
              although the study is often labelled irreplicable, i do still believe in rat park. opiates are not evil in and of themselves; rather, society forms a structure around which the use of opiates easily becomes more alluring than contributing to said society. consequently, those in chronic pain are often forced to suffer needlessly by being deprived of relief, so that societal productivity is maximized. the real miracle would be a fixed system, not the novel non-opiate painkiller suzetrigine. but apparently that is the next best thing.
              • kakacikan hour ago
                Opiates form a quick and nasty addiction. People in constant pain (as in, 24/7 or even most of the day, every day) need to take ever increasing doses to get the same level of pain relief. You would be surprised how many folks are like that, and not only 70+ years old. It takes few weeks to form a lifelong addiction that can never be fully shed and will form a permanent crack or weakness in one's personality.

                What all that, how can you defend opiates? Opinion of society is irrelevant here, they are absolute scourge if used enough, and nobody is immune.

            • johnisgood2 hours ago
              What are your issues with opioid-based painkillers?
            • laserdancepony6 hours ago
              We have dozens of pain killers which are not opioid based, what do you mean? From the top of my head NSAIDs can be used, and Metamizole for example is as effective as morphium.
              • Muvasa5 hours ago
                you got nsaids, metamizole, acetoaminophen, duolexitine. And you got a couple of more that work for neuropathic pain. The biggest problem with nsaids is that they cause bleeding and kidney failure, ulcers hence can cause stomach cancer.

                Here is a site you can use too see how most pharmaco therapy is lacking.

                https://pain-calculator.com/calculators/osteoarthritis-pain/

                • srean2 hours ago
                  Yes.

                  Very few painkillers that are not blood thinners. Paracetamol and canabinoids are a couple of rare exceptions.

                  My uncle broke his hip in his old age. He died shortly after because of the bleeding induced by painkillers.

              • hermanzegerman4 hours ago
                Metamizol is banned in the US, so they've robbed themselves of that
        • xeromal7 hours ago
          Sounds like this is more "Pouring bleach on germs kills the germs but it also kills everything else"
        • bitwank8 hours ago
          [flagged]
    • 9 hours ago
      undefined
  • jcranmer9 hours ago
    Too bad we've had like a half-dozen putative Alzheimer's drugs that clear amyloid beta that turn out to do nothing to slow or prevent Alzheimer's.

    Actually, I think even by 2016 we already had enough phase 3 drug failures that the amyloid hypothesis was severely called into question?

    • nikkwong8 hours ago
      That's not true. Monoclonal antibodies are on the market right now which slow the progression of the disease (by removing amyloid).
      • jcranmer7 hours ago
        AIUI, all such results are because the FDA has given up since aduhelm and said "well, if it clears amyloid, that's as good as slowing Alzheimer's, right?" despite the actual results on Alzheimer's progression being largely negative.
        • riskassessment7 hours ago
          For what it's worth, early statins were originally cleared based only on the evidence that they lower cholesterol without longer term studies showing a reduction in mortality. Of course there is now plenty of evidence showing statins improve overall endpoints.
          • AuryGlenz3 hours ago
            That’s true.

            Similarly, there were other drugs that lowered cholesterol that didn’t show a significant reduction in coronary events. As we later learned, it’s not nearly as simple as “cholesterol bad.”

          • simulator5g4 hours ago
            That doesn't sound like the same thing at all.
      • Muvasa5 hours ago
        ~~yes by 4 months. If I had AD i wouldn't bother with those treatments.~~ Sorry I missed the context you are right the fact that they slow AD by 4 months is a proof that amyloid plaques are part of the pathogenesis.
        • coryrc4 hours ago
          Or they have some other effect...
    • Retz4o48 hours ago
      Zunveyl
  • cdata10 hours ago
    This appears to be dated 2016. Did the preliminary results amount to anything?
  • miika3 hours ago
    Yes but.. Amyloid-beta may be part of the innate immune system

    https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2010/03/alzheimers-as...

  • rusakov-field10 hours ago
    Man, too bad weed gives me bad panic attacks. Alzheimers is the scariest disease I know so maybe if the studies pan out in time and it becomes a standard preventative, I might consider trying again.

    But somehow I doubt it will be found to be that effective.

    • dmorgan8110 hours ago
      Have you tried L-theanine? I also get panic attacks with weed, but L-theanine seems to help keep them at bay.
      • esperent9 hours ago
        I have tried l-theanine, didn't do anything that I could tell.

        But fortunately there's a much better solution for those of us who get anxiety from weed, it's called "don't smoke weed".

      • Loughla9 hours ago
        I've tried everything and I still get panic attacks. I used to love smoking a small hitter about an hour before bed. I've always had insomnia and that was the one thing that actually helped me sleep. When it was illegal, I loved it. I would smoke 2 or 3 times a week just for sleep, and I was healthy and happy. . . Because sleep is important, and I never wanted to take sleeping pills because dependency.

        Now that it's legal and everywhere, I just get super fun panic attacks. I'm worthless, I'm failing as a parent, everybody hates me, you know, the normal anxiety attacks. Even Charlotte's Web that's SUPER low THC gives me panic attacks.

        It's like my body hates it when I'm happy? I would give anything to be able to fix this problem.

        • wafflemaker9 hours ago
          Always thought that panic attacks were caused by too low CBD in regards to THC levels.

          Saw someone literally suggesting keeping a CBD vape pen just in case of a panic attack. Or a friend using it for heart palpitations.

          Wasn't the amount of THC concentration in resin seen as the indicator of potency? Then that amount was hacked through selective breeding, unbeknownst that not following with a complementary increase in amount of CBD will create an anxiety causing superdrug.

          I experienced it once - on a party in a country where CBD strains are legal to buy by anyone, as long as they contain ~0%THC. And high quality high THC strains can be bought at a pharmacy with a prescription.

          A friend rolled a 50%/50% joint, approx 0.5g total, and we proceeded to smoke it whole, just the two of us. I was surprised you could get that high without a shadow of a paranoia.

        • sam1r7 hours ago
          Wow, Charlottes Web is such unique strain. I'm always on another planet no matter what the THC is advertised.

          I feel like that strain is for EXPERTS. You can always mold it to the vibe you are aiming to reach in that present (ofc in the appropriate environments).

          Do you feel like the anxiety just the cascaded result of ... "poor planning" over an extended, day-over-day staggering, sleep-deprived, period of time? I consider my self naturally the poorest of poor planners. My brain is just RAM with zero cache that i always imagine that I have. I've had weeks wiz by if I do not get on top of a fun, MJ propagandized base routine / schedule in place.

          Apologies! Worse case, this could just be a swing and a miss. Empathies attempted.

        • rimshot7 hours ago
          Weed started doing the same thing to me in my mid to late 20s. What used to be relaxing suddenly turned into anxiety and negative thought spirals.

          A couple years ago (around 40) I started taking a low dose antidepressant for unrelated reasons and noticed that the weed induced anxiety mostly disappeared. My guess is that for some people there’s a serotonin/anxiety component that THC can amplify, but that’s just speculation on my part.

          Not suggesting antidepressants as a solution by themselves. They come with their own tradeoffs and I wouldn’t take them just for that. But it has been a pleasant side effect I didn’t expect.

        • karim799 hours ago
          I also get what I would describe as "near" panic attacks when I smoke (about once every two weeks, with friends). I realised that after about 15 minutes or so it cools down and I feel, perhaps, more relaxed than before I started. Purely anecdotal but I feel you. Maybe a bit of cooldown and good company helps with the paranoia.
        • R_D_Olivaw9 hours ago
          So, I sort of get these from time to time, but I notice that it hits the worst when :

          1. I've eaten like crap. Things too heavy I'm grease, processed food, and red meats. When I'm rating cleaner, I don't feel as panicky

          2. If I feel the panic coming on, I HAVE to do some sort of aerobic exercise in that first 15 minute "induction" phase of smoking. Otherwise I'll carry the panic along through the entire session.

          FWIW, YMMV

          • sam1r7 hours ago
            Yeah my defact is to run 5k at my pace (mild jog is fine), and just not use my screens + do not disturb mode, until i have a series of thoughts that invokes me to use my phone as a "lifeline" to quickly look up what I need to get to my next thought.

            5km goes by fast! And orange juice tastes great after.

        • DANmode5 hours ago
          How low was the % of THC in the Charlotte’s Web?

          Full spectrum hemp (~0%) definitely feels like the answer, here!

        • squigz9 hours ago
          Have you tried edibles or another method than smoking?
          • johnisgood2 hours ago
            I have not done weed for ages, but while smoking would always give me anxiety, vaping much less so.
    • dyauspitr7 hours ago
      I’ve found the edible thc (gummies/drinks) you get in non-legal states are much less panic/anxiety inducing. I’m not sure why but it probably has to do with CBD or something that is missing. It’s anecdotal but I’ve noticed it a lot. They also get you very high so I’m not sure how exactly they are getting around the legality requirement.
  • laughing_man9 hours ago
    Do we still think clearing beta amyloid plaques will halt the progress of Alzheimer's? My impression is we're treating marker for the disease and not the cause.
  • anjel10 hours ago
    Pro: Salk Institute Con: Preliminary Research, In Vitro
    • magospietato10 hours ago
      Con: from 2016 w. no followup?
    • whycome10 hours ago
      Salk? You mean the vaccine guy? /s

      And also, apparently, the registered trademark?

      > The researchers found that high levels of amyloid beta were associated with cellular inflammation and higher rates of neuron death. They demonstrated that exposing the cells to THC reduced amyloid beta protein levels and eliminated the inflammatory response from the nerve cells caused by the protein, thereby allowing the nerve cells to survive.

  • oliyoungan hour ago
    "reefer madness" has put legitimate research of that plant back immeasurably
  • anthk3 hours ago
    I have more trust on 40 hz ultrasound therapies.
  • edoceo6 hours ago
    There was another recent study showing that THC was creating false short term memories - like "I swear I told you that" - but never did.

    Cannabis really needs a lot more study.

  • meetpaleltech3 hours ago
    ...which is offset by typical dementia-like effects, other cognitive impairments in chronic weedos.
  • colordrops8 hours ago
    Anecdotally, when I'm feeling scattered and foggy, when I take a big hit off of my vape pen, I go through a period of noticing how shaky my appendages are, and go through what feels like a physical process of the sensation of my mind "unwrinkling" or unfurling. I often wondered if something was being cleaned out in my brain because I usually feel a lot more calm and still afterward, thoughts more collected.
    • DANmode4 hours ago
      Acetylcholine receptors, at minimum.
  • ProjectArcturis10 hours ago
    There are easily hundreds of compounds that can reduce beta-amyloid in vitro. This is a decade-old nothingburger.
  • edoceo6 hours ago
    There was another recent study showing that THC was creating false short term memories - like "I swear I told you that" - but never did.
    • krupan5 hours ago
      I see what you did there posting this comment twice. Well played
      • edoceo3 hours ago
        Mistake, too late to delete
  • bitwize9 hours ago
    Get stupid now to avoid cognitive decline later? Not sure I like that tradeoff...
    • SecretDreams9 hours ago
      As opposed to getting stupid now and getting cognitive decline later?
    • hirvi747 hours ago
      One adapts to it over time like any other state. Homeostasis is a blessing and a curse.
    • carlos224 hours ago
      Not really sure what you mean, I saw people on 10mg THC wring crazy code in a crazy speed. Some of them need it to be able to focus and think clear. Drugs never work "one way" for everybody. And its not only people its many things that affect how they work (setting, culture, education etc.). And if you think man kind does not need any drugs (including alcohol), if you look at it from a historic perspective we might even need it.
      • lostmsu10 minutes ago
        I would like to see the "crazy code" in question to take this seriously. Were you high on THC at the time as well? That would be a more plausible explanation of the perspective.
      • bitwize4 hours ago
        Unfortunately I know how THC works on me and it's not very desirable.
        • kakacikan hour ago
          Less mental capacity for structured thoughts during/after getting high is normal, as is massive increase of creativity. Mind wanders a lot. The effect goes away completely in a day or two but there is no end how high can user spiral into anxiety trip from expecting weird stuff and losing some control.

          Rather frequent use (as in not every day all the day but lets say couple of times a week) can have some decline but IMHO its still temporary. If the brain is already used to lower learning and complex analysis activity then it will be compounded but otherwise it shouldn't. I sometimes fall here, and I integrate internal banking systems for a living for 2+decades in very competitive place plus raising family and have mortgages, so no shortage of stress. Any miniscule decline is more than compensated by relief of stress and some giggly happiness, plus that massive creativity spike which allows me to catch up with stuff slowly sliding out of focus (and then biting hard like bureaucracy, taxes etc). Literally subconsciousness sliding notes underneath the doors of my mind, topics often pop out of blue, in such frequency that I sometimes struggle to keep up and take notes since next one with higher priority comes and then next one.

          Full on stoner - thats a goner, if we talk decades of use, I think. YMMV. But - I've met folks who had periods of life where they smoked all the time every day, for 5-10 years, usually teens (where I would say folks are very vulnerable since brain is still evolving). All are fine now in various roles in their lives.

  • mistermaster1an hour ago
    [dead]
  • khana3 hours ago
    [dead]
  • anonnon8 hours ago
    And yet, has anyone ever claimed regular marijuana use improved their memory?
    • hirvi747 hours ago
      Ok fine, I'll chime in.

      No, it has not improved my memory. Though, I am not really certain anything does. At least, not permanently. Though, I will say the effects on memory are rather complex. Some diminished abilities in some domains, but oddly some enhancements in a select few domains.

      I am 'neurodivergent' apparently, so my experiences might not be worth much.

  • anjel9 hours ago
    [flagged]
  • MarkusQ10 hours ago
    Remove them and replace them with...Doritos?
    • MarkusQ9 hours ago
      I seem to have touched a nerve.

      In my defense, it may have been a stupid joke but it's not as stupid as trying to prevent brain damage by taking cannabinoids at levels known to cause brain damage.

      • Dansvidania8 hours ago
        They can’t all be winners, right?

        Here. Take my upvotes to balance it out a smidge.