95 pointsby only_in_america7 hours ago14 comments
  • krunck7 hours ago
    "...Google execs all work for their shareholders, in a psychotic "market system" in which the myth of "fiduciary duty" is said to require companies to hurt us right up to the point where the harms they inflict on the world cost them more than the additional profits those harms deliver"

    Nailed it.

    • tptacek6 hours ago
      Not really. The idea that "fiduciary duty" requires companies to maximize shareholder value is a pernicious Internet myth.
      • topaz06 hours ago
        That myth long predates the internet version of it I think. Pernicious, yes.

        But note that the quote does call it out as a myth.

        • tptacek5 hours ago
          Fiduciary duty isn't a myth! It just doesn't mean what people claim it means.
          • 3 hours ago
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          • fsflover5 hours ago
            Will you enlighten us?
            • kasey_junk3 hours ago
              There is no legal requirement to maximize shareholder value. The very idea is an economic theory popularized by Friedman and his students.

              It gained popularity in corporate governance since then but it’s not a legal requirement it’s a shareholder preference. But that preference is violated all the time.

              People often cite a 1919 era case from Henry ford because it has a pithy statement but the court in that case explicitly upheld many of the decisions Ford made that violated the principle.

              That is, there is no law or precedent that requires corporate officers to only consider shareholders.

      • 3 hours ago
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      • mindslight5 hours ago
        Legally, sure. (there's a citation, a case between craigslist and a minority shareholder (ebay I think?), that backs up your argument about the common trope).

        But when stock valuations are completely disconnected from fundamentals like earnings, then regardless of the legality we're kind of circling back to the market pushing that dynamic, aren't we? It's like the market is no longer even optimizing for short term gains per se (eg quarterly earnings), but rather for whatever memes might boost their meme stock. Sometimes this is [still] quarterly earnings, and sometimes it's about the perceived size of the market or how they're cozying up to the fascists in power. So for public companies, it's not like major shareholders, the board, or management really have the ability to work towards longer term plans that go against this dynamic.

      • fsflover6 hours ago
        And yet this is exactly how every single megacorp works.
      • text04046 hours ago
        Citation needed because all evidence to the contrary.
  • eliemichel3 hours ago
    It saddens me to see this flagged, I did not have any predefined opinion about the author or the medium, but I did enjoy reading a text with a bit of character - which is becoming rare in these times of LLM omnipresence. And whether we like the form or not, this is an opinionated piece like many others we see on HN, with a thesis that I find pretty relevant. Beyond saddened, I am actually worried to see the HN community dismiss this type of post rather than discussing it like others.
  • afpx6 hours ago
    Why was this flagged? And, there's no vouch option

    Yes, Thiel openly says surveillance tech is the anti-Christ. Then, he goes on to build the tech.

    The frustrating thing is seeing it happen in real-time and knowing you can't inform or educate enough people.

  • haunter3 hours ago
    Is there anything that Doctorow actually enjoys and likes? I used to read his blog but it's constant negativity. He is not wrong at all but it's just not good for our mental health either.
  • leptons6 hours ago
    I worked for an ad-tech company for 3 months. I could not wait to get out of there.

    It became clear to me quickly that the data these people wanted to collect on anyone and everyone could be used against me should they want to - not that I was doing anything questionable, but it was just creepy as F**.

    The final straw for me was when they got some kind of contract with a major hotel chain and were all-too-giddy to listen in on the smart TVs in every room. I did not want to help them further any of their agendas, so I bailed on that place. Fortunately this was many years ago when dev jobs were easy to come by, I had 3 offers in a week.

  • topaz06 hours ago
    Why is this flagged?
    • drcongo6 hours ago
      I didn't flag it because it might be the first original thought that blog has had in years, but I totally understand the impulse to flag pluralistic without even reading it.
      • fsflover5 hours ago
        What are you talking about? This blog has many good, not flagged submission here.
  • 6 hours ago
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  • guywithahat7 hours ago
    [flagged]
    • baal80spam6 hours ago
      In social media at least it's akin to "this thing I don't like".
    • krunck7 hours ago
      While the author is using the term "fascist" in a more pejorative way than in a strictly descriptive way, it is not wrong to say many trends in big tech are pointed in a fascist direction.

      "Fascism is characterized by support for a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the perceived interest of the nation or race, and strong regimentation of society and the economy."

      Source: Wikipedia(Emphasis mine)

    • SunshineTheCat7 hours ago
      > "unless your definition of fascism is just a thing you don't like"

      I think online at least, this has become fairly normal for many of the most charged words/accusations/charges.

      The problem with doing this, of course, is that when the word is needed for something it actually represents, you run the risk of people thinking you're talking about something mundane.

    • ragall7 hours ago
      > Fascism, at least as the Nazi's defined and implemented it, is the belief that a socialist economy will work when the people have a similar genetic likeness.

      Wrong. You can read Umberto Eco's essay "Ur-Fascism" to have a more informed view.

    • __alexs7 hours ago
      The only interest the Nazi's had in socialism was eliminating it. They invented privatisation and crushed unions.
    • righthand7 hours ago
      You’re forgetting that a key aspect to fascist systems is tracking and identifying individuals and removing any privacy barriers so they can be classified and prosecuted.
    • mindslight6 hours ago
      > Fascism, at least as the Nazi's defined and implemented it, is the belief that a socialist economy will work when the people have a similar genetic likeness.

      I have seen many arguments supporting the destructionists (aka trumpists) from that exact vein. From the longstanding abstract "immigrants come here and sit on welfare" and "we need to take care of our own" to specifically supporting the recent pogroms as necessary before we can do things like fix healthcare or restore employees' negotiating power. So even by your definition, it seems eminently reasonable to describe the destructionist movement as fascist. And the point isn't to use the label, drop the mic, and consider the topic solved. But rather it's to have a basic dialogue so that we can discuss constructive solutions for opposing it - and that's basically how it's being used in the original post, regardless of your tone policing.

      (On the idea itself, I'd say it's preposterous to think that the corpos that drive our politics are going to suddenly switch to supporting socialism if only we racially purify our society, but there are unfortunately a lot of true believers. I'd say the dynamic is more like the only point of the socialist aspect is to assuage people's consciences for having rejected their empathy here and now)

  • nickff7 hours ago
    [flagged]
    • hananova7 hours ago
      This comment is dismissing a thoughtful and factual article by the character of the writer rather than the truth of their words. Interesting.
      • nickff6 hours ago
        What did I say about the writer's character?
    • bobtheborg6 hours ago
      I found many points interesting. Here's one:

      Policymakers supposedly work for us/the people and they could have made surveillance ad tech expensive and thereby severely limited it, but

      > "Policymakers failed us because cops and spies hate privacy laws and lobby like hell against them. Cops and spies love commercial surveillance, because the private sector's massive surveillance dossiers are an off-the-books trove of warrantless surveillance data that the government can't legally collect."

      • nickff6 hours ago
        That point may be pithy, but it's unconvincing to any skeptic; those are characteristics of a polemic.
        • _wire_4 hours ago
          Doctorow begs questions in the manner typical of self-hosted and/or expatriated journalists, who must be evangelists, but religious work tends to disregard the labor of research as it's hard work that doesn't pay and it might uncover a contradiction of the orthodoxy.

          Let religious voices like Doctorow indicate places where we may examine policy and why we should be interested to look there, but sermons aren't vehicles to carry meaningful analysis.

          Sermons must have a righteous tone and term "fascist", used correctly by Doctorow, has a long-standing colloquial connotation of teutonic allegiances during WW2, which emotionally overloads his diatribe.

          Yet, he's correct to invoke it, even as his rhetoric is misplaced for audiences whose forbearers were sacrificed to the trauma of WW2, and whose generational scar tissues suppress remembrance that the patterns of evil which exploded across the Axis did emerge within our sacred bastions of liberty and freedom, and that these evils are fomenting again right now.

          So I appreciate Doctorow's polemics even as I too regard the details of his claims with skepticism.

    • 3 hours ago
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    • sharkjacobs7 hours ago
      Would you be assuaged if it was titled "Ad-tech is police state tech"?
      • nickff6 hours ago
        I think that would definitely make it a more precise polemic, but the incorrect use of the word seems more of a symptom of the author's sloppiness than anything else.
        • JKCalhoun3 hours ago
          You hate polemic, I dislike milquetoast.
          • nickffan hour ago
            I think that I, like most people, enjoy the ones I agree with. That said, I’m generally skeptical of all polemics, especially the ones I agree with.
      • lo_zamoyski6 hours ago
        Word use is important. We have allowed thumos (and epithumia) to rule over nous.

        It has become acceptable to misuse words, like "fascist" or "communist" in political contexts, to the detriment of rational and fruitful discourse. Often a false equivalence is drawn between denying something is "fascist" or "communist" and denying something is bad. This is false. Something can be bad without being fascist or communist.

        There is plenty to be critical about in American politics and in tech, but calling everything you don't like "fascist" or "communist" isn't helpful. These seem to be go-to words used by those "defending" what is now a crumbling postwar liberal democratic order, i.e., anything that seems at odds with this order is reflexively called one of these two terms, depending on which faction of the American uniparty you align with.

        • mindslight5 hours ago
          Word use is important.

          Please explain how the trumpist movement significantly differs from most points of Umberto Eco's Ur-Fascism. Because in my estimation, the word is entirely appropriate for what we're facing and people are shouting it down because they don't like the uncomfortable truth.

          I'm open to changing my mind, especially if there is a better term that more accurately describes what we're facing. Because the dynamic isn't merely "crumbling postwar liberal democratic order", but rather a particular overly-simplistic reaction to that crumbling.

          • OCASMv25 hours ago
            Umberto Eco's Ur-Fascism only has validity in the eyes of communists. Hell, it's so broad it even applies to many brands of commies and anarchists.
            • mindslight4 hours ago
              I'm open to another definition that attempts to faithfully capture the general dynamics of fascism, and avoids the trap of pigeonholing the term into a few specific movements that are now safely in the past.
              • OCASMv24 hours ago
                Basing the definition on actual examples of fascist movements is not pigeonholing, it's being accurate.
                • mindslight3 hours ago
                  So your definition is based on it being incorrect to call anything else besides Mussolini's Italy or Hitler's Germany fascist? That's not particularly germane to discussion or analysis, which is why I was asking for other general definitions.
  • xyclonbee6 hours ago
    [flagged]
  • pigeons6 hours ago
    Remember those sci-fi books and movies about the dystopian totalitarian futures where advertisements were constantly targeted at you?
  • 6 hours ago
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  • Herring6 hours ago
    You’d still be having fascism here even if the internet didn’t exist. The most reliable way to prevent the rise of the far right is to implement robust safety nets and low inequality, to reduce status anxiety and grievance. Support for such measures (welfare, healthcare, unionization, high taxes etc) is usually low among Americans. Eventually rents/healthcare/tuitions outpace income, so people become desperate and start voting for strongmen.

    https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2025/10/welfare-cuts...

    • topaz06 hours ago
      The post is not about preventing the rise of fascism, it's about not preemptively building tools for them to use in implementing fascism.
      • Herring5 hours ago
        Yeah sorry I'm not a fan of rearranging deck chairs on the titanic.
    • christkv6 hours ago
      How do you prevent the rise of the far left? Just asking because both axis are as much a threat to human freedom and happiness.
  • amadeuspagel6 hours ago
    HN has ads (job ads for YC companies). When I see people post these deranged takes about ads on HN, I always ask myself: Do they not notice this--a common criticism of ads is that they blend too much into the real content, and this is nowhere more true then on HN--or do words just not mean anything to them, do they just mindlessly repeat memes rather then thinking about what these ideas mean for their own life? Is a sentence which to me expresses an idea to them more akin to a drug that gives them a kind of moral high? Because if I thought that ads were fascist, I'd look for a forum that doesn't have any, like Lobsters[1].

    [1]: https://lobste.rs/

    • topaz06 hours ago
      By "ad-tech" it's referring to the surveillance that underlies modern targeting of ads on the internet. YC's job ads don't do that.
    • hightrix6 hours ago
      When most people complain about ads, they are complaining about targeted ads.

      Job postings, Show HN, and other ads on HN are contextually relevant to a majority of the users and require no tracking to present.

      This post appears to be about the former, not the later.