146 pointsby vermaden12 hours ago6 comments
  • sidkshatriya10 hours ago
    14.4 is a maintenance release. If you're installing FreeBSD today, use 15.0

    Why FreeBSD ?

    - Well manicured OS, excellent docs. More performant than OpenBSD in every way and approaches Linux performance in some areas (e.g. Networking)

    - FreeBSD tends to have fewer features in almost all areas compared to Linux which makes it more approachable and more difficult to mess up.

    - Though it has fewer features, it still has a lot of features -- many big companies (Netflix most famously) still use it today for critical functions.

    - FreeBSD Kernel and Userland developed together -- it has got that undefined "cohesive" feel

    - Has less layers of abstraction than Linux, gets the job done. Because there are fewer layers it's easier to understand what is going on and potentially easier to fix.

    - FreeBSD is great if you want to learn pf, zfs, ...

    - Worth your while if you are bored of the Linux monoculture and just want to try something a bit different (but not tooo different)

    - Changes slowly, so good for setting up on a server that you want to just leave running without too much maintenance

    - Will increase your Linux skills because diversity always helps the human brain

    - Very simple daemon configuration via /etc/rc.conf

    - FreeBSD `bectl` controlled zfs boot environments are just so life changing and amazing. (this is possible via snapper on Linux + btrfs but needs complex installation and is not so integrated).

    - FreeBSD will accept (smallish) PRs via GitHub if you find a minor bug. Otherwise it uses the decent Phabricator interface at https://reviews.freebsd.org . This is much better IMHO than the mailing list workflow of Linux. The barriers to contribution are lesser than Linux !!

    - FreeBSD still has that warm fuzzy small "community" feel which I like

    • drewg12310 hours ago
      If you're installing FreeBSD today, use 15.0

      Or just run -current in production, like we do. See https://people.freebsd.org/~gallatin/talks/OpenFest2023.pdf

      Or https://papers.freebsd.org/2019/fosdem/looney-netflix_and_fr...

      • throw0101d8 hours ago
        > Or just run -current in production, like we do.[0]

        If you develop, it's probably best to do that against current [1], but if I'm running a web, mail, file, database, etc, server there is IMHO very little advantage to doing so. Most folks aren't trying to push >400Gbps.

        [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4TZxj-Dq7s

        [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQ0mvmZtbaY

      • asveikau7 hours ago
        Seems like the reason is to catch new bugs, fix them and upstream the fixes promptly, with a team of 10 doing that. Sounds awesome, but I could see other people just passively consuming stable.
      • craftkiller9 hours ago
        While I also use -current, I don't think this is good advice to the kinds of people who don't know if they should be running 14.4 or 15.0. There are caveats to running -current (for example, you need to disable the built-in debugging stuff on -current to get decent performance but the debugging stuff is already disabled on actual releases), so I think for new people it's best to recommend they use the latest release (15.0) and they can discover -current when they are more familiar with FreeBSD.
        • rsync5 hours ago
          "I don't think this is good advice to the kinds of people who don't know if they should be running 14.4 or 15.0."

          You don't need to wonder about this because FreeBSD has an official, documented position on this topic[1]:

          "... include work in progress, experimental changes and transitional mechanisms that may or may not be present in the next official release ..."

          "... whether or not FreeBSD-CURRENT sources bring disaster or greatly desired functionality can literally be a matter of which part of any given 24 hour period you grabbed them in!"

          "(is not) In any way ``officially supported'' by us."

          [1] https://docs-archive.freebsd.org/doc/4.4-RELEASE/usr/share/d...

      • sidkshatriya9 hours ago
        Yes, FreeBSD current is quite usable. It's fun to start using the new features as they are added to kernel and userland immediately !
        • sidkshatriya35 minutes ago
          P.S. As -current is essentially running the latest master branch commit it should be evident that FreeBSD will be unstable, liable to break at any point and may have horrible bugs.

          So -current is good for experimentation but probably not too much more than that (unless you're Netflix with team of FreeBSD experts who famously like to run -current -- see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47322830 ).

      • cperciva4 hours ago
        Yeah but nobody else has as many a FreeBSD developers on staff to fix stuff when it breaks. Or, you know, to run monthly stabilization weeks and extensively QA before deploying to a herd of cattle.

        There are so many factors in favour of Netflix running 16.0 which don't apply elsewhere.

    • jedberg8 hours ago
      > and approaches Linux performance in some areas (e.g. Networking)

      I started using FreeBSD 26 years ago when I worked for Sendmail, who had a couple of core committers on staff or staff-adjacent. Back then the refrain was "it can't do nearly as much as Linux, but what it does do it's much better than Linux".

      And specifically it was known that if you wanted the best possible networking stack, FreeBSD was the choice to make (And also why Netflix uses it, for the networking stack).

      All this to say, is it true that Linux now has better network performance, or did you mistype that?

      • sidkshatriya7 hours ago
        The networking subsystem is probably the place where FreeBSD is most competitive with Linux.

        Linux just supports so much more hardware capabilities and fancy ways of doing things (e.g. io_uring, bpf logic in kernel etc.) that an expertly setup and tuned Linux system will probably exceed the networking speed of FreeBSD and provide more features while doing so. I'm not a networking expert by any means but this is what my understanding is.

        I use FreeBSD for mostly for taste and the other reasons I outlined in my detailed answer above even though Linux is superior performance wise.

    • alwillis7 hours ago
      > and approaches Linux performance in some areas (e.g. Networking)

      FreeBSD has been the gold standard for networking features and performance for decades; not sure I'd agree.

      > FreeBSD tends to have fewer features in almost all areas compared to Linux

      I'm not sure FreeBSD has fewer features in total but on a new install, many of them are turned off; it doesn’t mandate what should be running. There's a lot beneath the surface to get into.

      > FreeBSD Kernel and Userland developed together -- it has got that undefined "cohesive" feel

      Definitely! It feels like a single entity rather than a collection of components.

      > Has less layers of abstraction than Linux, gets the job done. Because there are fewer layers it's easier to understand what is going on and potentially easier to fix.

      Agreed. You can tell the FreeBSD developers attitude is to compose features using what the operating system already offers instead of creating new things from scratch.

      > Very simple daemon configuration via /etc/rc.conf

      I'd say in a good way; quoting from "Service Management: init vs systemd" [1]:

      The comparison is best understood structurally. [FreeBSD](https://vivianvoss.net/dictionary#freebsd)'s init system is composed of precisely five elements: shell scripts, one library, one configuration file, one ordering utility, and the shell itself. Each is inspectable, replaceable, and debuggable with tools that predate the engineer using them.

      [systemd](https://vivianvoss.net/dictionary#systemd) is composed of, well, rather more. The binary count stood at 69 in 2013, which prompted some concern. By 2024, it had doubled. The project absorbed fifteen distinct tools that previously existed as independent, single-purpose programs, each maintained by specialists who understood them intimately.

      [1]: https://vivianvoss.net/blog/init-vs-systemd

      • sidkshatriya7 hours ago
        >> and approaches Linux performance in some areas (e.g. Networking)

        > FreeBSD has been the gold standard for networking features and performance for decades; not sure I'd agree.

        This is the accepted wisdom. But reality on the ground is that Linux has probably surpassed FreeBSD in this domain too. With bpf programs making dynamic packet steering decisions in kernel space, io_uring, support for every hardware networking enhancement under the sun and $$$ being spent by everybody on the Linux networking stack (to speed up AI training or supercomputer clusters for example) I doubt a highly tuned Linux box will be slower than the equivalent FreeBSD one.

        (P.S. I'm not a networking expert. This is my assessment though. Someone well versed with networking on both FreeBSD and Linux should confirm on this !)

    • cperciva4 hours ago
      14.4 is a maintenance release. If you're installing FreeBSD today, use 15.0

      This is not the recommendation of the FreeBSD project. (I would know, because I'm the person in the project who makes that recommendation where appropriate.)

      Once X.1-RELEASE ships, (X-1).* is considered "legacy" and we recommend that it is used primarily for maintaining existing systems and that new systems are deployed with the newer major version. But at when it comes to 14.4 vs 15.0 we're not there yet; .0 releases are always a bit bumpy and it's very much a judgement call at this point about how much risk people want to take.

      • vermaden4 hours ago
        By the way - does 32bit packages 'problem' for WINE has been resolved on 15.x series?

        On 14.x and older versions WINE brings `/usr/local/share/wine/pkg32.sh` to keep 32bit packages for WINE32 ... but 15.x does not build 32bit packages anymore ...

    • krylon7 hours ago
      > this is possible via snapper on Linux + btrfs but needs complex installation and is not so integrated

      FWIW, openSUSE defaults to btrfs on the root filesystem and uses snapper in a very similar manner to zfs boot environments on FreeBSD. I don't have a lot of experience with the latter, but I have been running openSUSE Tumbleweed on my desktop and primary laptop for about 10 years now, and the btrfs+snapper arrangement has worked pretty well for me.

      (I also run FreeBSD on my home server and just did the upgrade to 15.0 this weekend, which left me wondering why I had procrastinated this upgrade for so long. It went perfectly fine.)

      • sidkshatriya7 hours ago
        Are you using pkgbase on 15 now or still using the old approach ?
        • krylon6 hours ago
          I chickened out. :(
      • LargoLasskhyfv6 hours ago
        > FWIW, openSUSE defaults to btrfs on the root filesystem and uses snapper in a very similar manner to zfs boot environments on FreeBSD.

        CachyOS (Archlinux derivative) with either GRUB (since recently), or Limine Bootloader(since longer), too.

    • ux2664789 hours ago
      It's also worth mentioning that FreeBSD lives outside of Redhat's influence. If you find yourself lamenting the direction Linux is moving in, FreeBSD remains an attractive escape hatch. It's not perfect (rc.d is definitely not as nice as runit, it's still focusing on LVM filesystems for the future, last I tried to use OSS4 it had some issues), but I would be straight up lying to you if I implied these weren't kind of trivial in the grand scheme.
      • dismalaf9 hours ago
        Ish. Most FreeBSD installs still make use of stuff like Wayland and a lot of Linux parts.
        • justin668 hours ago
          > a lot of Linux parts

          Anything outside of the stuff required to make a graphical desktop work?

          • dismalaf7 hours ago
            > Anything outside of the stuff required to make a graphical desktop work?

            That's kinda big, no?

            • justin666 hours ago
              I think FreeBSD's slogan has been "The Power to Serve" roughly as long as we've been making jokes about The Year of Linux on the Desktop, so we're talking decades. I assume everyone has had plenty of time to make their peace with FreeBSD's mission being focused on the server.

              The original question was of interest because, outside of the desktop, Linux does have some other stuff they've cooked up. It really would be interesting if some of that other stuff had jumped the fence. I think FreeBSD is as likely to adopt smf or launchd or something as they are to adopt systemd (not very likely in any case), hence my curiosity about whether something had happened.

              • dismalaf5 hours ago
                Dunno lately FreeBSD has been making a push to be compatible on more laptops and to install desktop environments on install.
            • doublerabbit7 hours ago
              What Linux parts are you referring to then?
        • doublerabbit7 hours ago
          > Most FreeBSD installs still make use of stuff like Wayland and a lot of Linux parts.

          No? Wayland is available but Xorg is the default.

          FreeBSD doesn't install a display server on default so the choice is yours.

          There is no GUI installation of FreeBSD so I am not sure what "linux parts" you are referring to. The installation uses curses which is ancient and has existed since the dawn of C, Unix. Abd what FreeBSD is. Is that what your referring to?

          pkg is FreeBSD's package manager.

          • dismalaf5 hours ago
            Lol Red Hat had been X.org's largest contributor for years...
            • doublerabbit5 hours ago
              Sure, but that doesn't make it "Linux stuff".

              Xorg is a fork of XFree86 which was originally The XFree86 Project, Inc. for Unix Systems, which targeted 4.4BSD.

              • dismalaf5 hours ago
                Key part of the comment I initially replied to:

                > FreeBSD lives outside of Redhat's influence.

                • doublerabbit5 hours ago
                  And I am replying to your key part of the parent comment of: "Ish. Most FreeBSD installs still make use of stuff like Wayland and a lot of Linux parts."

                  One could say the parts you seem to count for being from Linux are Unix parts as they've originated from Unix, not Linux.

    • 9 hours ago
      undefined
    • pisikesipelgas10 hours ago
      I heard, that BSD is dying...
      • sidkshatriya9 hours ago
        NetBSD - situation does not seem that good. Project feels less active now.

        OpenBSD - has a fanatical band of security obsessed users. Not going away anytime soon.

        FreeBSD - It chugs along. Why is FreeBSD worth trying out ? See my reply above.

        • SoftTalker7 hours ago
          Love OpenBSD, it is my main work and personal OS. Doesn't rank the best in performance, but certainly good enough for my uses (and many others, I'd guess).

          The thing I like is that almost everything I've invested in learning about it over the past 15 years still applies. Stuff that does change, or is added, tends to be done in a way that is sensible and consistent with established patterns and practices. Linux, not so much.

        • user39393829 hours ago
          NetBSD has their new npf firewall which is quite nice. Of all the options their internal architecture is the cleanest. It gets less fanfare than the others because it has less drivers, although even that is partially due to a commitment against binary blobs.

          FreeBSD is more practical but for example you find the config files scattered about the file system whereas in NetBSD they’re always exactly where I expect. SDF.org has a great NetBSD system if anyone wants to try it out.

      • linguae8 hours ago
        I love the BSDs; I have the most experience with FreeBSD, I regularly use macOS, and lately I’ve been learning NetBSD due to its rumpkernel.

        With that said, with the decline of commercial Unix and the dominance of Linux, POSIX, in my opinion, has become less important, and in its place Linux seems to be the standard. I prefer the BSDs to Linux due to its design and documentation, but Linux has better hardware support, and the FOSS ecosystem, especially the desktop, is increasingly embracing Linuxisms such as Wayland and systemd. The FOSS BSD ecosystems are too small to counter the Linuxization of the Unix ecosystem, and I feel that Apple does not pay much attention to the BSD side of macOS these days.

        I don’t expect the BSDs to die, but I do believe they’ll need to find ways to adapt to an increasingly Linux-dominated FOSS ecosystem.

      • bigstrat20039 hours ago
        Has Netcraft confirmed it?
      • riley_dog9 hours ago
        Whenever people use unnecessary commas like this, I hear nothing but William Shatner in my mind.
      • bell-cot8 hours ago
        "BSD is dying" has been a popular (at least with kids and trolls and Linux fans) jeer for the past three-ish decades.

        The reality of it is kinda like "Buffalo Bills will win the Superbowl this year".

      • krylon7 hours ago
        ...just as soon as Linux takes over the desktop! ;-)
    • compass_copium9 hours ago
      >Will increase your Linux skills because diversity always helps the human brain

      Is this still true, given how much runs through systemd now? I thought about trying out FreeBSD last time I got a new computer, but decided on sticking with Debian to help skill building on other Linux systems

      • sidkshatriya8 hours ago
        Diversity of programming languages, operating systems, cultures, human languages, countries, music etc. always gives a fresh perspective I've found. You may go back to what you prefer at the end but it gives you learnings that are at a "higher level" :-)

        > Is this still true, given how much runs through systemd now?

        Yes, still true. On FreeBSD you will realize what complexity systemd might be hiding from you and what additional features it provides. BTW I don't actually like rc init on FreeBSD that much ! I feel that rc.d can learn a lot from more modern init systems like systemd, dinit etc. I don't like reading highly complex rc scripts !!

    • SuaveSteve7 hours ago
      >Linux monoculture

      How does Linux have a monoculture? You'd think it is anything but "mono" with all the distros.

      • throw0101d5 hours ago
        > How does Linux have a monoculture? You'd think it is anything but "mono" with all the distros.

        The kernel, systemd, most mainstream distros use glibc, a whole bunch of GNU utilities, GCC being the default on many distros. Versus a different kernel, different libc, different utilities (gawk vs One True Awk), clang default.

      • corv6 hours ago
        Systemd comes to mind, although it wasn’t as dominant initially
        • seanw4446 hours ago
          I really don't understand all the systemd hate. It got popular because it was good. I have nothing against the other options, but systemd is just fine.

          You always have the option of creating your own init scripts with the other systems, and there are plenty of spinoff distros that add those init systems if you so choose.

          • corv4 hours ago
            This wasn't a judgement on systemd but the fact stands that Linux has long abandoned POSIX compatibility, udev being another prominent example.

            I'd say this is what ultimately drives monoculture, which is a shame because diversity from glibc (e.g. musl et al.) and other major components could make critical infrastructure more resilient overall

      • sidkshatriya6 hours ago
        Yes, within Linux there is diversity -- I was not talking about that. The server space in 2026 is dominated by Linux.

        Solaris ? Gone* WindowsNT ? Niche. HP-UX ? Gone* AIX ? Gone* macOS ? Not in server. FreeBSD ? Niche (smaller than WindowsNT though).

        In another world there would be at least two open source server os-es battling it out (like in hardware where we have aarch64 vs x64 and so on).

        (*) "Gone" means probably a rounding error by now.

    • rsync5 hours ago
      "14.4 is a maintenance release. If you're installing FreeBSD today, use 15.0"

      Translation: whatever investments in time, tooling, training and documentation you made for 14.x, they were useful for about 18 months.

      x.0 shouldn't be deployed in production because it is brand new ...

      ... but x.4 is too old to be deployed because the cool kids stopped working on the 'x' branch 6 months ago.

      • sidkshatriyaan hour ago
        > Translation: whatever investments in time, tooling, training and documentation you made for 14.x, they were useful for about 18 months.

        Don't agree. Not too many differences between 15.0 and 14.x -- there are some changes -- mostly improvements and enhancements, many just internal but nothing that voids your pre-existing knowledge of FreeBSD or changes your approach drastically.

        > x.0 shouldn't be deployed in production because it is brand new ...

        Is that true ? Could depend on how conservative you are. 15.0 came out in ~Dec 2025 and we're now in March 2026... I'd say 15.0+latest security fixes/errata should be OK for _most_ people ? 15.1 should be out in June 2026 for those who absolutely insist on waiting...

  • slyfox125an hour ago
    For those who are only familiar with Linux (or Windows): don't relegate yourself to any one system. FreeBSD has its benefits and so does Linux (and Windows, though that shrinks by the day - and MacOS). Use the best tool for the job at hand and enjoy things for what they are. Personally, I find enjoyment and usefulness in all of them (BSD, Linux, Mac, Windows), and use them all regularly (daily to weekly).
  • fullstop10 hours ago
    Congratulations to the FreeBSD team! FreeBSD will always have a special place in my heart.
  • HackerThemAll15 minutes ago
    Apple should regularly donate to FreeBSD Foundation. They make countless billions USD thanks to FreeBSD. 1M or 5M a year would be a penny to them, but would be a world to the Foundation, which would be able to improve FreeBSD a lot.
  • basemi10 hours ago
    > Bhyve virtual machines can now share a filesystem with the host via the new p9fs

    Nice!

    • colinhb9 hours ago
      Wild! Fun to see 9p filesystem protocol continue to have a life in this form.
    • martinrame9 hours ago
      Yea!, as far as I understand, with p9fs now a simple zfs dataset can be shared with the VM, removing the need of ZVOLs (a ZVOL for the boot disk isn't an issue, but for example a data disk of 1tb is difficult to manage).
    • jmmv9 hours ago
      Huh, in a point release?

      But excited to try it out ASAP! I haven’t made the leap to 15 on my server yet (in part because I can’t decide whether to go with pkgbase or not…), but sharing data more easily with VMs will surely be nice.

      What’s the performance like?

      • sidkshatriya8 hours ago
        > in part because I can’t decide whether to go with pkgbase or not…

        pkgbase is optional in FreeBSD 15 BTW.

        One way to upgrade the base system and another to upgrade packages just feels inconsistent to me and pkgbase finally resolves that. I've not had any problems with pkgbase. I love it and would highly recommend it.

      • throw0101d8 hours ago
        > Huh, in a point release?

        MFCed (merged from current):

        * https://cgit.freebsd.org/src/commit/?id=e97ad33a89a78f55280b...

    • ej319 hours ago
      It's the duct tape of filesystem protocols, in a good way.
  • antonyh8 hours ago
    My next rebuild is likely to move from Debian to openSUSE Tumbleweed or FreeBSD. They fit better with what I want in an OS used for development purposes (needing newer versions than provided by Debian stable).

    However... the lack of Docker on BSD is a deal breaker for some of my uses, jumping through hoops is possible, and moving to Podman might work but looks complicated to set up.

    On the other hand, Debian 14 will remove GTK2 which breaks other things.

    There's always a compromise.