71 pointsby jprs11 hours ago2 comments
  • dfc4 hours ago
    If you like this there has been a interesting discussion on the tzdb mailing list about how to handle the Vancouver change and the next releases of the tzdb and the Unicode Common Locale Data Repository: https://lists.iana.org/hyperkitty/list/tz@iana.org/thread/IE...
  • themafia5 hours ago
    > the Time Zone Database also contains a surprising amount of whimsy.

    Which I would find "cute" if the database contained an equal amount of reason. I am perennially irritated that "US/Pacific" which is an _official_ name of a time zone _as used_ by the relevant time keeping authority, is called "backwards."

    I still think we should move away from a tz database, a 1970s idea, and move to a .timezone TLD with tzinfo stored in TXT records. Give each country it's own NS in the TLD and give them the authority to update it. If you still want a "full file" then do a zone transfer. Plus, we could also use punycode, and easily have fully internationalized time zone names, something we currently lack.

    I genuinely dislike the structure and nature of the tz database.

    • shagie4 hours ago
      That would provide the machine readable version... but not the human documentation of time. You wouldn't be able to debug the Moroccan Ramadan rule (which is provided as some elisp code) and its predictions for future changes.

      Having it be managed by governments would mean that the whim of a politician could break things by changing the established name... say from "US/Pacific" to "USA/Pacific" or deciding by fiat to change the timezone for a political enclave within another one that doesn't have a TLD. ( https://github.com/eggert/tz/blob/main/northamerica#L821 )

      This also describes the compromises in the design of the system to accurately record the time.

          # From Paul Eggert (2026-03-07):
          # The law says that 21 hours after the usual 2026-03-08 02:00 switch from
          # PST to PDT, the next day inaugurates the new standard time Pacific Time,
          # i.e., just one clock change but two name changes separated by 21 hours.
          # PT, the obvious abbreviation for Pacific Time, is one letter too short
          # to conform to TZDB’s (and POSIX’s) [-+[:alnum:]]{3,6} requirements.
          # I asked the BC government for advice, with no response. For now, do this:
          #   1. As a temporary hack, pretend that the BC law takes effect
          # not on 2026-03-09 at 00:00, but on 2026-11-01 at 02:00.
          # This pretense works around a limitation in CLDR v48.1 (2026-01-08),
          # which would otherwise say the interval uses “Pacific Standard Time”.
          # (Below, this temporary hack is marked “Temporary hack; see above.”)
          # Strictly speaking this hack is incorrect since the interval uses
          # standard time, but it does have the right UT offset and it
          # works around the CLDR limitation.  We should be able to remove
          # the temporary hack after CLDR is fixed.
    • skissane2 hours ago
      > Give each country it's own NS in the TLD and give them the authority to update it

      There are 193 UN member states. Then add to that the Vatican, Taiwan, and dozens of overseas (or otherwise special) territories having ISO 3166 country codes. Can you trust all those governments to reliably play their part in such a system?

      This is part of why the current setup works - it isn’t dependent on the cooperation of any government agency to function.

      • GauntletWizard2 hours ago
        Who cares if it works in places that won't play nice? They're digging their own grave if they don't publish, and only hurting themselves. The nice thing about massively distributed systems is that they can be as reliable as the people who depend on them need them to be, with the relevant authorities having the option to be as real or as clowny as they want to be.

        That said, I would never respect the DNS TTL of such a scheme, for my own use cases. I'd query each of them once an hour, latch the last response forever, and delay propagation of a new response for a full week that it stayed stable before serving the new record.

        • skissanean hour ago
          > Who cares if it works in places that won't play nice? They're digging their own grave if they don't publish, and only hurting themselves.

          The timezone database was not created for the benefit of governments, it was created for the benefit of users and vendors.

          People who have to live their lives under corrupt/incompetent governments have enough problems on their plate already, without the added indignity of making it harder for them to get their computers to show the correct local time.

        • shagie37 minutes ago
          Who maintains what time it was in Yugoslavia in 1970? Or Serbia? What country maintains the time information for the island of Taiwan? Or Hong Kong while under British rule or while under Japanese rule?

          It might be possible to use that for the information of now - to answer the question of "what is local time for me based on UTC?" or "what is local time for someone else now?" ... but what about the information of yesterday? When it was 12:01 PM in Chicago in 1948, what time was it in Hong Kong?

        • phantomathkg42 minutes ago
          You would care if you want to track the hostile countries local time.
    • wolrahan hour ago
      That might work for the current form of the country-specific time zones officially acknowledged by countries that exist in TLD form, but the tz database contains many more current time zones more importantly piles of historical time zones. Representing just the historical forms of currently recognized time zones in DNS would be a mess, without even getting in to those that are not associated with a country that currently exists and has a TLD.

      edit: This is a great video explaining a lot of the reasons why time zones are nowhere close to as straightforward as you may think: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5wpm-gesOY

      • vincent-manis17 minutes ago
        There once was a country named Czechoslovakia.
    • rendaw4 hours ago
      You need historic timezone information to interpret past dates, not just the current timezones.
    • MadnessASAP5 hours ago
      > Which I would find "cute" if the database contained an equal amount of reason. I am perennially irritated that "US/Pacific" which is an _official_ name of a time zone _as used_ by the relevant time keeping authority, is called "backwards."

      This assumes that every point on earth has exactly 1 governing body and that a significant majority of the people agree on who that governing body is and that the governing body gives a rats ass about what time it is. Or that everyone in a region agrees on what time it is. Or that ccTLDs are sufficient to unambiguously cover the entire earths surface.

      The time zone database isnt just a record of "official" decisions regarding time, it is a record of what time a population thinks it is. There are geographic overlaps, cultural overlaps, pants on head stupid overlaps. It exists to try and translate between somebody somewhere some when giving a time and date reference to any point in history to whatever time system the user may choose to believe in.

      Your solution is insufficiently complex to solve a problem of this complexity.

      https://gist.github.com/timvisee/fcda9bbdff88d45cc9061606b4b...