Apple Announces Low-Cost 'MacBook Neo' with A18 Pro Chip(www.macrumors.com)
77 pointsby vanburen3 hours ago16 comments
  • zemvpferreiraan hour ago
    A perfectly performant, luxury-feeling laptop with a secure OS for under $500? This thing is going to eat Chromebooks and budget HP shitboxes for lunch. Sure a lot of niceties are missing but compared to the experience most people have with their $500 laptops, this is going to be night and day.
    • SirMasteran hour ago
      Depends what you consider luxury feeling. It's so stripped down.

      Aside from the slower CPU, half the ram, and half the SSD as the Air this is also what it's all missing compared to the Air:

      TouchID, MagSafe, slightly bigger wider color (P3) screen, better 12MP CenterStage camera, 2 more speakers, 1 more mic, backlit keyboard, ambient light sensor, force-touch trackpad, WiFi 7, 2 Thunderbolt 4 ports, larger battery with longer runtime and faster charging.

      Yes you can get TouchID with the 512GB upgrade for more money on the Neo.

    • Geonodean hour ago
      It's $600, unless you're a school.
      • apparent24 minutes ago
        Academic pricing also applies to individual purchases by students, staff, and faculty. In-store, they ask for an ID. But they don't use any mechanism for online purchases, aside from attestation.

        I think they used to use edu email addresses to confirm, but now that so many people have alumni emails, that would be useless (and not capture k12 students, whose email addresses typically cannot receive outside emails).

      • busymom0an hour ago
        EDIT: With education discount, in Canada, it's good price: $679 for base, $849 for Touch ID + 512 SSD.

        --

        $799 in Canada for the base model & $999 for the one with touchID & 512 GB ssd.

        Looks like both models only come with 8gb ram.

    • jeffbeean hour ago
      You can't kill Chromebook with hardware. Apple needs software if they want more share of that market.
      • bubblewand36 minutes ago
        What software do they need to compete with chromebooks? It has a browser (it could have several browsers, if you want). I personally prefer all their productivity software to Google’s or Microsoft’s, and it’s not a close race, but you can use those on it too. Accessibility, I was shocked to find is kinda awful on Chromebooks when I had to try to configure it, considering their target markets are kids and the elderly, while Apple’s the gold standard at that.
        • jeffbee31 minutes ago
          You misunderstand the market. Chromebooks are bought by bureaucrats. They want provisioning, deployment, management. They want a kid to be able to throw a broken Chromebook into a big garbage bin and grab another one off the shelf and be up and running in 5 seconds.
      • tedd4u16 minutes ago
        Can you say more about what software? (I'm sure the Neo runs Chrome perfectly fine)
  • jurmous2 hours ago
    Geekbench CPU single/multi and GPU Metal scores.

    - M1: 2,347 / 8,342 / 32,377

    - M2: 2,587 / 9,669 / 44,712

    - A18Pro: 3,539 / 8,772 / 32,288

    So Neo is really comparable with the M1, although it has quite faster single core speed.

    • rayineran hour ago
      For daily use the single core speed is the most important. Web browsing, UI render, etc., is still single threaded mostly.
    • vesrahan hour ago
      Single core is close to M4, even.
    • testing22321an hour ago
      I’m using a used M1 air as my daily for editing tens of thousands of photos, tons of 4K video editing, web and light dev work.

      It’s still the fastest computer I’ve ever used. (No Tahoe for me)

  • robinhood3 hours ago
    I can totally see many, many students and parents use that machine for daily tasks. Yes, base specs are pretty low: 8Gb RAM, 256 Gb drive - but the price tag is also low in the Apple world. I assume the trackpad will be excellent and the promise that the battery lasts all day is probably true (all day = 6-7h max). Good move from Apple, for once.
    • mushufasaan hour ago
      I also know many professionals who have a work computer and just want a personal device for occasional things like personal web browsing/shopping/occasionally watching videos -- things that would be inappropriate on a work computer and inelegant on a phone. These people already basically use their phone for everything -- many of them have never upgraded from their college laptop, which is now obsolete. They'd value a well-built (design, feel, screen) computer but have no performance needs.
    • justonceokay2 hours ago
      It looks like a perfect replacement for my 2011 MBP. I always figured I’d get a Chromebook when it croaked but this is a viable contender
      • uf00lme2 hours ago
        A 2011 MBP is likely a better a general purpose PC, those early models had some great engineering. Wait for the reviews and benchmarks but the M1/M2 based MBPs are still great daily drivers.
        • jamesgeck0an hour ago
          Those old 2011 machines aren't really getting macOS security updates anymore, and compatible apps are dropping; I wouldn't recommend using anything but Linux on them. And even with a non-15-year-old battery, you'll be lucky to get half the battery life of Apple Silicon with a 2nd gen Core i5 CPU.
        • mushufasaan hour ago
          2011 is 15 years ago -- MacOs will not support that device, so it is a real security risk to use online.

          This new offering seems comparable to the price of a refurbished M1/M2.

    • j452 hours ago
      I thought Apple's RAM architecture/speed lets more than 8 GB be addressed, effectively letting it have 50-100% more operating capacity?
      • piyhan hour ago
        Doesn't stop it from shitting the bed when you try to run anything like Fusion or Docker
    • romanovcode2 hours ago
      > the trackpad will be excellent

      Nope. It is mechanical.

      • tverbeure20 minutes ago
        The mechanical trackpad of my 2007 Macbook (the first unibody) is still better than any PC trackpad I've ever used.
      • busymom0an hour ago
        Their mechanical trackpads were excellent too. It's only their keyboard which they messed entirely up.
      • freehorsean hour ago
        What do you mean, "mechanical"?
        • alex_youngan hour ago
          A mechanical trackpad is like an unpowered treadmill iirc. Sometimes they ship with a gimbal mount so you can scroll more than one direction.
          • swiftcoderan hour ago
            This explicitly says "Multi-Touch trackpad for precise cursor control and support for gestures", so at most it's the clicking action that is mechanical (rather than the click being faked with haptic feedback, as it is on the current models)
  • dzonga43 minutes ago
    I know this is a heavily tech circle.

    however for the common person out there, unless they're buying for status -- this will meet most of their needs

    office workers, hospital workers, stay-at-home parents - who just wanna fill forms occasionally, write emails, browse the web - design a few posters on canva for a funeral, special event etc

    so yeah to those people they don't give a shit about M-series, as long it has enough memory and can do what they want without freezing.

    well done to apple

    • bubblewand40 minutes ago
      I’m still on an M1 Air for my personal laptop and probably will be for another couple years. It doesn’t feel “slow” and I feel no urge to start browsing newer models.

      My understanding is this laptop matches or exceeds the M1 Air’s performance, so it should be pretty damn nice for most people.

  • cestith2 hours ago
    It looks like a good value if you can get by with 8 GB of RAM. This is a market niche that will sell, but it doesn’t replace the Air. The Air has 16GB standard and can be ordered with up to 32. I’m also curious about the benchmarks between the A18 Pro and the M5, although for a lot of people that’s going to be less important than the RAM.

    Good on them for bringing back bright colors, and for including a 3.55mm audio jack on their new lowest end laptop.

    • dawnerdan hour ago
      8gb was standard not that long ago and was just fine for most people.
      • regularfry40 minutes ago
        I'm still working on an 8GB M1 Pro. It's just about ok. VS Code plus podman plus Teams plus Slack plus Firefox and it hits the limits; usually Slack is the thing to get killed.
        • cestith35 minutes ago
          I’m on a 16GB M1 Pro. Slack, Zoom, then browser tabs for Jira, PagerDuty, GMail, Confluence, and a Google doc and it’s swapping like mad. It’s that fast SSD and the integrated memory, so it swaps quickly. Swapping is still swapping though.
      • bubblewand32 minutes ago
        It’s great if you run max two “web apps” at a time. More, and it’s heading into “may be a problem” territory.

        I’ve seen a Gmail tab eat 2.5Gb of memory all on its own… just sitting there. And you need some headroom for content and file caching and such to keep things feeling snappy.

  • ajaimkan hour ago
    Really want Apple to launch the Mac Mini version of this (yes, I really want an updated Apple TV)
    • paxys41 minutes ago
      Mac Mini is already the Mac Mini version of this. How much lower in price can it realistically get?
  • noname120an hour ago
    Will it be true macOS or will they use this excuse of using an “iPhone chip” to lock down everything like they do on iPads/iPhones?
    • ajaimkan hour ago
      A18 Pro offers 44% better single thread performance and similar multi-thread performance as the M1 processor.

      The Neo should offer similar if not better performace as the first round of entry level Macbook Pro/Mini/Airs that Apple launched in 2020 with the M1 chip.

      • dmoyan hour ago
        Was this meant to respond to a different comment?
        • apparent23 minutes ago
          Seems responsive to me.
    • danaris34 minutes ago
      They don't have a "macOS Lite", and if these were running anything less than full macOS, you can be sure Apple would be positioning them as a new product (or part of the iPad line) rather than as a Mac.

      And maybe, just maybe, that fact, once it becomes clear, will make at least a few of the people who assume that Apple desperately wants to lock down macOS realise that that's bullshit and always has been...

  • dlisboa2 hours ago
    I wish more would be done on weight. The 12 inch Macbook was very lightweight, just 2 pounds. Today there's no Apple product that gets close to that: an iPad with the added accessories weighs more and it's still an iPad. The Macbook "Air" is not airy, this Macbook Neo weighs the same as an Air.
    • tedd4u14 minutes ago
      That machine's form factor was so great, it was just saddles with that awful hot-running Intel CPU. I was hoping this device would be essentially the MB12, finally with the right chip. I guess they were going for target price, not target weight.
  • throwaway858252 hours ago
    No magsafe seems like a bad idea given the target demographic.
    • apparentan hour ago
      Not if their goal is to make money on repairs/upgrades!

      Kidding aside, I think this is one of their key differentiators from the MBA line. It's partly the MagSafe itself, and partly that you have an extra USB port open even when charging.

    • whalesaladan hour ago
      Honestly I am still wondering why tf they brought magsafe back. I thought Apple had turned the corner on proprietary connectors. I charge my M2 air with a usb-c cable.
      • cillian64an hour ago
        Two advantages for me: It's nice that you don't break the connector if you trip over the cable or put the laptop down on a soft surface, and it's nice being able to charge while still using both USB-C ports (although I guess 3x USB-C would also solve that).

        I don't really see any downside to a proprietary connector if you also have the option to charge over USB-C as well.

        • apparent20 minutes ago
          I wonder how people would feel about:

          MagSafe + 2 USB C, all on the left

          vs

          3 USB C, 2 on one side and 1 on the other

          I don't care much about MagSafe, but it is sometimes annoying to have to plug everything on the left. If given the option, I might pick the extra USB (which could also be used for data/monitor/etc. when not being used for charging, of course.

        • bubblewand30 minutes ago
          MagSafe’s great because nobody in your house will run off with your cable to charge their phone or tablet or Switch controller or whatever.
      • tverbeure16 minutes ago
        They brought it back because it's a fantastic feature for clumsy people like me.
      • zardo39 minutes ago
        It's a big selling point for the slice of laptop buyers that are replacing a machine they just broke by tripping over the power cord.
      • queseraan hour ago
        I can't understand why they ever moved away from it.

        Magsafe on laptops is so much better than any other option: zero force "insertion", convenient breakaway if tripped over causing no damage to either side. Magsafe is fantastic.

        • swiftcoderan hour ago
          If only we could get a MagSafe data cable! I'd kill for a MagSafe equivalent of a thunderbolt dock
      • jamesgeck0an hour ago
        It's less stress on a frequently used port. I've got an early M1 MacBook Air where the USB-C port I always used for charging is starting to get flaky, presumably because it's been used so much and because of the weight of the cord + dongle hanging off the side of the machine.
        • SXXan hour ago
          Replacement port for M1 Air can be bought for around $10 off Amazon and installation take like 10 minutes for total newbie like me. All you need is right screwdriver.

          Just look for a2337 usb-c port replacement.

      • projektfu43 minutes ago
        My wife does, too, but only because the dog ate the magsafe.
      • testing22321an hour ago
        The day I tripped over the cord and smashed my netbook I suddenly appreciated MagSafe a lot more.
    • ehutch79an hour ago
      Right? also, where's the thunderbolt ports? and it needs about another inch? maybe half inch on the screen. And really, 16gb is the new minimum. There's a whole bunch of acceleration and co processing features in the m series missing from the a series, so they really should put an m5 in there instead...

      Seriously though. Every feature someone says is missing and should have been added would be another $100 on the cost. This is already likely a low margin product meant of someone who's only using a browser and maybe a few apps.

  • an hour ago
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  • space_gregan hour ago
    Well, why can’t my 17 Pro run macOS apps when connecting it to an external screen etc?
  • ruined2 hours ago
    i didn't even know usbc2 ports were a thing
    • yndoendo2 hours ago
      The USB-C ports are unbalanced. Should have one on the left and right, not side by side.

      Unbalanced USB-C ports has become a common bad design in the laptop industry.

      • freeone3000an hour ago
        Commodity hubs, especially USB2, come with lots of ports; it's up to how many connectors you can reasonably fit on the chassis. But running a trace across the board for USB isn't a great sell. Getting a second board on the other side isn't a great sell, especially for budget computers like this one. So we end up with "unbalanced" ports.
        • matthewfcarlson42 minutes ago
          Yup- if you put usb ports on both sides of the laptop you need a retimer chip as the traces are too long/suffer EMI. Which adds to BOM cost.
    • klodolph2 hours ago
      There are also USB-C 2 cables.
      • eigencoderan hour ago
        USB-C is the bane of my existence. Everything looks the same, but certain cables won't charge certain devices for seemingly no reason, and other cables won't transfer data, and there's no easy way (AFAIK) to tell the difference
        • eigenan hour ago
          > certain cables won't charge certain devices

          not sure how you can make a cable that doesnt connect power from end to end. I can see if it doesnt charge as fast as others if it doesnt have the bits required for higher current support. and if a device requires >5V to charge, thats on the device not the cable.

          > other cables won't transfer data

          again, not sure you can make a cable that doesnt connect the USB2 pair from end to end. but if device doesnt use USB2 and requires something else without mentioning it then that again seems to be on the device not the cable.

          • eigencoder26 minutes ago
            It's probably a problem with my devices. I've never seen these problems with more expensive devices, but my cheap bluetooth speakers will only charge with certain cables.

            I also have cheap cables that don't seem able to do data transfer. Guessing it's not actually following the USB-C spec.

          • dhosek17 minutes ago
            USB c cables aren’t merely wires and connectors but have some electronics embedded on them.
  • dcchambersan hour ago
    It's an incredible value but a world of resource-hungry vibe-coded webapps and 8GB of RAM just does not feel compatible.

    If you primarily use native Apple apps though this thing is awesome. $499 with student discount? This thing is going to do NUMBERS.

  • deafpolygon39 minutes ago
    now the next macOS update being performance/bug fixed focused makes sense to me