184 pointsby ghostwriternr3 hours ago21 comments
  • hungryhobbit33 minutes ago
    Man, I love Next ... but I also love Vite ... and I hate the Next team, because they focus on fancy new features for 0.1% of their users, at the complete expense of the other 99.9% of the Next community (who they basically ignore).

    This gives someone like me everything we want. Better performance is something the Next community has been begging for for years: the Next team ignored them, but not the Cloudflare team. Meanwhile Vite is a better core layer than the garbage the Next people use, but you still get the full Next functionality.

    I wish Cloudflare the best of luck with this fork: I hope it succeeds and gets proven so I can use it at my company!

    • thousand_nights8 minutes ago
      at my job we have some 7+ year old nextjs apps that don't receive new features but still do their jobs perfectly fine, and they keep changing random shit around for no reason, we've had to waste time on multiple refactors already for major nextjs version bumps once the older ones are no longer supported
    • 3rodents13 minutes ago
      What is it you love about Next that isn’t tied to Vercel and isn’t available elsewhere? I love Next too but I find the value is inextricably linked to Vercel. I can’t imagine choosing to use Next if I’m not choosing it for Vercel’s fancy stuff.
    • himata41133 minutes ago
      I mean you don't want really want to use javascript for the backend anyway... What's the problem with just using vite and any backend of your choosing?
  • ratorx14 minutes ago
    I find it interesting that they bought Astro (https://blog.cloudflare.com/astro-joins-cloudflare/), which from my definitely-not-a-frontend-person perspective seems to tackle a similar problem to Next. A month ago.

    If it is so cheap to make something that they recommend using (rather than a proof of concept), why buy Astro (presumably it was more expensive than the token cost of this clone?).

    One conclusion is that, at the organisational level, it still makes sense to hire the “vision” behind the framework, rather than just clone it. Alternatively, maybe AI has improved that much in 1 month!

    • pier25a few seconds ago
      Unlike Astro, this looks more like a low effort experiment while making fun of a competitor than a project intended for any serious production use.

      Maybe I'm wrong. We'll see what happens a couple of years from now.

    • 3rodents9 minutes ago
      Astro is a different paradigm. Acquiring Astro gives Cloudflare influence over a very valuable class of website, in the same way Vercel has over a different class from their ownership of Next.js. Astro is a much better fit for Cloudflare. Next.js is very popular and god awful to run outside of Vercel, Cloudflare aren’t creating a better next.js, they’re just trying to make it so their customers can move Next.js websites from Vercel to Cloudflare. Realistically, anyone moving their next.js site to Cloudflare is going to end up migrating to Astro eventually.
    • satvikpendem5 minutes ago
      > which from my definitely-not-a-frontend-person perspective seems to tackle a similar problem to Next.

      It does not. Astro is more for static sites not dynamic web apps.

    • phpnode8 minutes ago
      The acquisition is just a different play - they get access to the Astro user base and can steer the future direction of the framework. This move here is all about nerfing a direct competitors main advantage (to all of our benefit)
    • bastardoperator9 minutes ago
      I think they just want steer users/developers to CF products, maybe not? It is interesting to see the two platforms. I've moved to svelte, never been a frontend person either but kind of enjoying it actually.
  • aggregator-iosan hour ago
    Surprised this didn't get a higher placement on the HN front page, only 34 points?

    Absolutely impressive that this was done with $1100 in tokens and in 1 week. I agree, and so do a lot of my peers that code has quickly become nothing more than a tool to accomplish a task. Code never was and never should have been the product in and of itself. This is amazing news, and this is exactly where we should be as a civilization. The only people that have trouble with this development are the gatekeepers who think that code should be sacred and revered by itself. That is a perversion of computing, and we got the wrong group of people there.

    While Vercel continues to be the #1 host for Next.js projects, others seem to claim that migrating to their platform is as easy as enabling the Github integration. It's not. Cloudflare even mentions that you can port your Next project to run on its infra, but I couldn't get it to work. Replit markets the same, and yet, Next fails to on there too. You have to go through several painful hacks and try-build-fail loops and eventually not worth it.

    You know what took less time and frustration? I asked Claude Code with Opus 4.6 to convert the entire Next project to React+Vite. And as a shameless plug, I was able to get https://jsonquery.app fully up and running and the builds are lightning fast with Vite, and worked with just 2-3 tries on Cloudflare pages. If you don't need SSR and Next routing, I suggest you do the same.

    Oh, and in Next.js land, Turbopack had severe edge cases, that I had to revert to Webpack. Esp when dealing with WASM, as JSON Query uses the jq dependency brought in as a wasm to run on the web. This is not an issue with Vite.

    • blibble18 minutes ago
      > Surprised this didn't get a higher placement on the HN front page, only 34 points?

      looks like HN has finally defeated the cloudflare voting ring

    • ojr11 minutes ago
      last time I tried to use nextjs in a cloudflare worker there was a lot of issues
    • cpursley36 minutes ago
      Or just skip/migrate off of the Next.js and other JS SSR rats nets to Elixir and Phoenix LiveView - Claude and Codex are both very good with Elixir now: https://elixirisallyouneed.dev
      • h4ch112 minutes ago
        I see this sort of maximalism a lot where people are just turned off js and say f it I'll use HTMX or LiveView or Alpine or whatever promises that you won't have to write js, and that's fine; as long as you're building generic dashboards and/or the same repetitive UI patterns. And even then you're basically writing JS just in a worse way.

        I use Liveview and Elixir for 2-3 home-lab related frontend services; but when I have to do something moderately complicated I have to reach out for a darn js library and hooks and phx-commands. Try using native drag and drop or even client-side markdown rendering. This also leads to memory leaks when you can't properly detach libraries.

        I just say think about your goals; these frameworks/platforms that promise to remove JS from your life or minimize it do so by sacrificing something. There's no silver bullet for building on the web.

        But whenever I do talk to people who are debating amongst frameworks SvelteKit and SolidStart are the two I recommend, it's easy to host anywhere (unlike Next), you can turn off SSR, just ship static files with very minor changes (exporting a variable in Svelte for ex). They're really quick, get the job done, actively being worked on, loads of resources, discussions and thriving communities.

    • Hamuko30 minutes ago
      >Surprised this didn't get a higher placement on the HN front page, only 34 points?

      The last time Cloudflare vibe-coded something, it was a glorified proof-of-concept with TODOs up the wazoo.

  • switz2 hours ago
    This is pretty fascinating and comes with some complicated AI-world incentives that I've been ruminating on lately. The better you document your work, the stronger contracts you define, the easier it is for someone to clone your work. I wouldn't be surprised if we end up seeing open source commercial work bend towards the SQLite model (open core, private tests). There's no way Cloudflare could have pulled this off without next's very own tests.

    Speaking more about the framework itself, the only real conclusion I have here is that I feel server components are a misunderstood and under-utilized pattern and anyone attempting to simplify their DX is a win in my book.

    Next is very complex, largely because it has incrementally grown and kept somewhat backwards compatible. A framework that starts from the current API surface and grows can be more malleable and make some tough decisions here at the outset.

    Crazy to see it's already being run on a .gov domain[0]. TTFGOV as a new adoption metric?

    [0] https://www.cio.gov/

    • anematodean hour ago
      > The better you document your work, the stronger contracts you define, the easier it is for someone to clone your work.

      Well said; this is my thinking as well. One person or organization can do the hard work of testing multiple approaches to the API, establishing and revising best practices, and developing an ecosystem. Then once things are fairly stable and well-understood, another person can just yoink it.

      I have little empathy for Vercel, and here they're kind of being hoist by their own petard of inducing frustration in people who don't use their hosting; but I'm concerned about how smaller-scale projects (including copyleft ones) will be laundered and extinguished.

    • falcor8414 minutes ago
      > There's no way Cloudflare could have pulled this off without next's very own tests.

      I'm very uncovinced. History showed us very complex systems reverse engineered without access to the source code. With access to the source code, coupled with the rapid iteration of AI, I don't see any real moat here; at best a slight delay.

  • thawab43 minutes ago
    Nextjs had remote code execution vulnerabilities because of how they implemented react server side. I am not touching an AI version without waiting for a while.
  • kundi4 minutes ago
    Next-js team is a bunch of inexperienced teens who like good looking UIs and their lousy platform to upsell their services. Very glad to see this
  • rc1an hour ago
    > The whole thing cost about $1,100 in tokens.

    I like this is called out.

  • jtbaker17 minutes ago
    All my homies hate Next.js
  • eaf7e281a minute ago
    again?
  • evilhackerdude24 minutes ago
    > The [next.js] developer experience is top-notch.

    let me add my own unqualified statement to that: no.

    > Next.js has invested heavily in Turbopack but if you want to deploy it to Cloudflare, Netlify, or AWS Lambda, you have to take that build output and reshape it into something the target platform can actually run.

    it's almost as if vercel had some kind of financial incentive to gear this towards their own platform.

    > reimplemented the Next.js API surface on Vite directly

    a clown car screeches to a halt; several burnt-out-bored oracle vs google lawyers climb out and, weirdly, i am there for it

    all in all, it's definitely a good example of something we couldn't have done for $1100 pre-llms, but: should we have? did somebody consult the lava lamps?

  • bryanrasmussenan hour ago
    someone spent over 1000 dollars to replicate the functionality of Next.JS, even 1 dollar would seem too much somehow. I suppose that is me being overly retributive.
  • htch2 hours ago
    In hindsight, a totally expected achievement given where models are and the high quality tests available, but wildly impressive all the same.

    I don’t know what this means but it feels like yet another milestone moment.

  • vercantez43 minutes ago
    Great to see. Could have use this last month when we migrated from OpenNext on CF to React Router 7
  • keeganpoppen31 minutes ago
    i love how this disintermediates the next.js/vercel axis, which seems to be determined to make basically everything hard except for exactly what they want to do. as much as i love what vercel has done for open source in general (amazing stuff!) it is hard to interpret some of the stuff they do with next as anything other than vendor lock-in bs… the kind that i know is not in their hearts.
  • 2001zhaozhao16 minutes ago
    This is another example that good tests (e.g. Next.js's own test suite) are SO incredibly important to making the AI able to work on big projects autonomously with lower steering. So is a very domain-knowledgeable human in charge of steering.
  • 25 minutes ago
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  • troupo42 minutes ago
    Here's what is buried a bit in the text:

    --- start quote ---

    Something like 95% of vinext is pure Vite. The routing, the module shims, the SSR pipeline, the RSC integration: none of it is Cloudflare-specific.

    --- end quote ---

    The real achievement is human-built Vite (and it is an amazing project).

    Since Next.js's API surface and capabilities are known, this is actually quite a good use of AI: re-implement some functionality using a different framework/language/approach. They work rather well with that.

  • jdthedisciplean hour ago
    Shots fired, Vercel folks better hide!
  • carverauto6 minutes ago
    good job, now you have to support that mess that took 3774~ contributors to build.

    have fun.

  • verdverm2 hours ago
    NextJS is bad enough, cannot imagine an Ai version

    Cloudflare also lost my support because their support is among the worst, rep evn sneered (cannot update my WHOIS, still, after months of emails). Strongly recommend avoiding their platform. You will find that you lose more time & money to dealing with the issue of parity. God help you if you ever need support, almost every question in Discord goes unanswered as well.

    • slig23 minutes ago
      The former CTO commented a lot here and said numerous times about emailing him with issues that support couldn't figure out. Maybe try emailing the new CTO?
  • acedTrex38 minutes ago
    God cloudflare's blog quality has fallen off a fuckin cliff ehh. Used to be so good now its just llm slop both content and actual writing.
    • bbkane7 minutes ago
      This is interesting to my on both a technical level as well as a social-political level. I wonder what impact "AI-washing" will have on licensing for example
    • spzb13 minutes ago
      The core network products seem to be having a run of downtime issues too. Maybe they should focus on their homework before going out to play with the AI kids.