131 pointsby beAroundHere15 hours ago18 comments
  • thesz2 hours ago
    8B coefficients are packed into 53B transistors, 6.5 transistors per coefficient. Two-inputs NAND gate takes 4 transistors and register takes about the same. One coefficient gets processed (multiplied by and result added to a sum) with less than two two-inputs NAND gates.

    I think they used block quantization: one can enumerate all possible blocks for all (sorted) permutations of coefficients and for each layer place only these blocks that are needed there. For 3-bit coefficients and block size of 4 coefficients only 330 different blocks are needed.

    Matrices in the llama 3.1 are 4096x4096, 16M coefficients. They can be compressed into only 330 blocks, if we assume that all coefficients' permutations are there, and network of correct permutations of inputs and outputs.

    Assuming that blocks are the most area consuming part, we have block's transistor budget of about 250 thousands of transistors, or 30 thousands of 2-inputs NAND gates per block.

    250K transistors per block * 330 blocks / 16M transistors = about 5 transistors per coefficient.

    Looks very, very doable.

    It does look doable even for FP4 - these are 3-bit coefficients in disguise.

  • Hello99999014 hours ago
    This would be a very interesting future. I can imagine Gemma 5 Mini running locally on hardware, or a hard-coded "AI core" like an ALU or media processor that supports particular encoding mechanisms like H.264, AV1, etc.

    Other than the obvious costs (but Taalas seems to be bringing back the structured ASIC era so costs shouldn't be that low [1]), I'm curious why this isn't getting much attention from larger companies. Of course, this wouldn't be useful for training models but as the models further improve, I can totally see this inside fully local + ultrafast + ultra efficient processors.

    [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Structured_ASIC_platform

    • roncesvalles3 hours ago
      Well even programmable ASICs like Cerebras and Groq give many-multiples speedup over GPUs and the market has hardly reacted at all.
      • brainless41 minutes ago
        Seems both Nvidia (Groq) and OpenAI (Codex Spark) are now invested in the ASIC route one way or another.
      • fookeran hour ago
        > market has hardly reacted at all

        Guess who acqui-hired Groq to push this into GPUs?

        The name GPU has been an anachronism for a couple of years now.

  • owenpalmer4 hours ago
    > Kinda like a CD-ROM/Game cartridge, or a printed book, it only holds one model and cannot be rewritten.

    Imagine a slot on your computer where you physically pop out and replace the chip with different models, sort of like a Nintendo DS.

    • roncesvalles3 hours ago
      That slot is called USB-C. I can fully imagine inference ASICs coming in powerbank form factor that you'd just plug and play.
      • zupa-huan hour ago
        This would be a hell of a hot power bank. It uses about as much power as my oven. So probably more like inside a huge cooling device outside the house. Or integrated into the heating system of the house.

        (Still compelling!)

        • fennecbutta minute ago
          *the whole server uses 2.2kw or whatever, not a single board. I think that was for 8 boards or something.
      • ekianjo25 minutes ago
        Not if you need 200w power to run inference.
      • XorNot3 hours ago
        Pretty sure it'd just be a thumbdrive. Are the Taalas chips particularly large in surface area?
        • thesz2 hours ago
          800 mm2, about 90mm per side, if imagined as a square. Also, 250 W of power consumption.

          The form factor should be anything but thumbdrive.

          • pfortuny2 hours ago
            mmmhhhhh 800mm2 ~= (30mm)2, which is more like a (biggish) thumb drive.
            • thesz2 hours ago
              Thanks!

              I haven't had my coffee yet. ;)

        • dmurray2 hours ago
          The only product they've announced at the moment [0] is a PCI-e card. It's more like a small power bank than a big thumb drive.

          But sure, the next generation could be much smaller. It doesn't require battery cells, (much) heat management, or ruggedization, all of which put hard limits on how much you can miniaturise power banks.

          [0] https://taalas.com/the-path-to-ubiquitous-ai/

    • Someonean hour ago
      Would somewhat work except for the power usage.

      I doubt it would scale linearly, but for home use 170 tokens/s at 2.5W would be cool; 17 tokens/s at 0,25W would be awesome.

      On the other hand, this may be a step towards positronic brains (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positronic_brain)

    • beAroundHere4 hours ago
      That's the kind of hardware am rooting for. Since it'll encourage Open weighs models, and would be much more private.

      Infact, I was thinking, if robots of future could have such slots, where they can use different models, depending on the task they're given. Like a Hardware MoE.

    • 8cvor6j844qw_d63 hours ago
      A cartridge slot for models is a fun idea. Instead of one chip running any model, you get one model or maybe a family of models per chip at (I assume) much better perf/watt. Curious whether the economics work out for consumer use or if this stays in the embedded/edge space.
      • sixtyj2 hours ago
        Plug it into skull bone. Neuralink + slot for a model that you can buy in s grocery store instead of prepaid Netflix card.
    • Onavo3 hours ago
      Yeah maybe you can call it PCIe.
  • brainless35 minutes ago
    If we can print ASIC at low cost, this will change how we work with models.

    Models would be available as USB plug-in devices. A dense < 20B model may be the best assistant we need for personal use. It is like graphic cards again.

    I hope lots of vendors will take note. Open weight models are abundant now. Even at a few thousand tokens/second, low buying cost and low operating cost, this is massive.

  • cpldcpu2 hours ago
    I wonder how well this works with MoE architectures?

    For dense LLMs, like llama-3.1-8B, you profit a lot from having all the weights available close to the actual multiply-accumulate hardware.

    With MoE, it is rather like a memory lookup. Instead of a 1:1 pairing of MACs to stored weights, you suddenly are forced to have a large memory block next to a small MAC block. And once this mismatch becomes large enough, there is a huge gain by using a highly optimized memory process for the memory instead of mask ROM.

    At that point we are back to a chiplet approach...

    • pests2 hours ago
      For comparison I wanted to write on how Google handles MoE archs with its TPUv4 arch.

      They use Optical Circuit Switches, operating via MEMS mirrors, to create highly reconfigurable, high-bandwidth 3D torus topologies. The OCS fabric allows 4,096 chips to be connected in a single pod, with the ability to dynamically rewire the cluster to match the communication patterns of specific MoE models.

      The 3D torus connects 64-chip cubes with 6 neighbors each. TPUv4 also contains 2 SparseCores which specialize handling high-bandwidth, non-contiguous memory accesses.

      Of course this is a DC level system, not something on a chip for your pc, but just want to express the scale here.

      *ed: SpareCubes to SparseCubes

    • brainless39 minutes ago
      If each of the Expert models were etched in Silicon, it would still have massive speed boost, isn't it?

      I feel printing ASIC is the main block here.

  • m10130 minutes ago
    So if we assume this is the future, the useful life of many semiconductors will fall substantially. What part of the semiconductor supply chain would have pricing power in a world of producing many more different designs?

    Perhaps mask manufacturers?

    • ivan_gammel11 minutes ago
      It might be not that bad. “Good enough” open-weight models are almost there, the focus may shift to agentic workflows and effective prompting. The lifecycle of a model chip will be comparable to smartphones, getting longer and longer, with orchestration software being responsible for faster innovation cycles.
  • rustybolt3 hours ago
    Note that this doesn't answer the question in the title, it merely asks it.
    • alcasa9 minutes ago
      Frankly the most critical question is if they can really take shortcuts on DV etc, which are the main reasons nobody else tapes out new chips for every model. Note that their current architecture only allows some LORA-Adapter based fine-tuning, even a model with an updated cutoff date would require new masks etc. Which is kind of insane, but props to them if they can make it work.

      From some announcements 2 years ago, it seems like they missed their initial schedule by a year, if that's indicative of anything.

      For their hardware to make sense a couple of things would need to be true: 1. A model is good enough for a given usecase that there is no need to update/change it for 3-5 years. Note they need to redo their HW-Pipeline if even the weights change. 2. This application is also highly latency-sensitive and benefits from power efficiency. 3. That application is large enough in scale to warrant doing all this instead of running on last-gen hardware.

      Maybe some edge-computing and non-civilian use-cases might fit that, but given the lifespan of models, I wonder if most companies wouldn't consider something like this too high-risk.

      But maybe some non-text applications, like TTS, audio/video gen, might actually be a good fit.

    • beAroundHere3 hours ago
      Yeah, I had written the blog to wrap my head around the idea of 'how would someone even be printing Weights on a chip?' 'Or how to even start to think in that direction?'.

      I didn't explore the actual manufacturing process.

  • 708145_30 minutes ago
    Is Taalas' approach scalable to larger models?
  • kinduff3 hours ago
    Very nice read, thank you for sharing this so well written.
  • rustyhancock4 hours ago
    Edit: reading the below it looks like I'm quite wrong here but I've left the comment...

    The single transistor multiply is intriguing.

    Id assume they are layers of FMA operating in the log domain.

    But everything tells me that would be too noisy and error prone to work.

    On the other hand my mind is completely biased to the digital world.

    If they stay in the log domain and use a resistor network for multiplication, and the transistor is just exponentiating for the addition that seems genuinely ingenious.

    Mulling it over, actually the noise probably doesn't matter. It'll average to 0.

    It's essentially compute and memory baked together.

    I don't know much about the area of research so can't tell if it's innovative but it does seem compelling!

    • generuso4 hours ago
      The document referenced in the blog does not say anything about the single transistor multiply.

      However, [1] provides the following description: "Taalas’ density is also helped by an innovation which stores a 4-bit model parameter and does multiplication on a single transistor, Bajic said (he declined to give further details but confirmed that compute is still fully digital)."

      [1] https://www.eetimes.com/taalas-specializes-to-extremes-for-e...

      • londons_explore3 hours ago
        It'll be different gates on the transistor for the different bits, and you power only one set depending on which bit of the result you wish to calculate.

        Some would call it a multi-gate transistor, whilst others would call it multiple transistors in a row...

        • hagbard_c2 hours ago
          That, or a resistor ladder with 4 bit branches connected to a single gate, possibly with a capacitor in between, representing the binary state as an analogue voltage, i.e. an analogue-binary computer. If it works for flash memory it could work for this application as well.
      • rustyhancock3 hours ago
        That's much more informative, I think my original comment is quite off the mark then.
    • jsjdjrjdjdjrn2 hours ago
      I'd expect this is analog multiplication with voltage levels being ADC'd out for the bits they want. If you think about it, it makes the whole thing very analog.
      • jsjdjrjdjdjrn2 hours ago
        Note: reading further down, my speculation is wrong.
  • punnerud2 hours ago
    Could we all get bigger FPGAs and load the model onto it using the same technique?
    • generuso2 hours ago
      You could [1], but it is not very cheap -- the 32GB development board with the FPGA used in the article used to cost about $16K.

      [1] https://arxiv.org/abs/2401.03868

    • fercircularbuf2 hours ago
      I thought about this exact question yesterday. Curious to know why we couldn't, if it isn't feasible. Would allow one to upgrade to the next model without fabricating all new hardware.
    • wmf2 hours ago
      FPGAs have really low density so that would be ridiculously inefficient, probably requiring ~100 FPGAs to load the model. You'd be better off with Groq.
      • menaerusan hour ago
        Not sure what you're on but I think what you said is incorrect. You can use hi-density HBM-enabled FPGA with (LP)DDR5 with sufficient number of logic elements to implement the inference. Reason why we don't see it in action is most likely in the fact that such FPGAs are insanely expensive and not so available off-the-shelf as the GPUs are.
  • abrichr3 hours ago
    ChatGPT Deep Research dug through Taalas' WIPO patent filings and public reporting to piece together a hypothesis. Next Platform notes at least 14 patents filed [1]. The two most relevant:

    "Large Parameter Set Computation Accelerator Using Memory with Parameter Encoding" [2]

    "Mask Programmable ROM Using Shared Connections" [3]

    The "single transistor multiply" could be multiplication by routing, not arithmetic. Patent [2] describes an accelerator where, if weights are 4-bit (16 possible values), you pre-compute all 16 products (input x each possible value) with a shared multiplier bank, then use a hardwired mesh to route the correct result to each weight's location. The abstract says it directly: multiplier circuits produce a set of outputs, readable cells store addresses associated with parameter values, and a selection circuit picks the right output. The per-weight "readable cell" would then just be an access transistor that passes through the right pre-computed product. If that reading is correct, it's consistent with the CEO telling EE Times compute is "fully digital" [4], and explains why 4-bit matters so much: 16 multipliers to broadcast is tractable, 256 (8-bit) is not.

    The same patent reportedly describes the connectivity mesh as configurable via top metal masks, referred to as "saving the model in the mask ROM of the system." If so, the base die is identical across models, with only top metal layers changing to encode weights-as-connectivity and dataflow schedule.

    Patent [3] covers high-density multibit mask ROM using shared drain and gate connections with mask-programmable vias, possibly how they hit the density for 8B parameters on one 815mm2 die.

    If roughly right, some testable predictions: performance very sensitive to quantization bitwidth; near-zero external memory bandwidth dependence; fine-tuning limited to what fits in the SRAM sidecar.

    Caveat: the specific implementation details beyond the abstracts are based on Deep Research's analysis of the full patent texts, not my own reading, so could be off. But the abstracts and public descriptions line up well.

    [1] https://www.nextplatform.com/2026/02/19/taalas-etches-ai-mod...

    [2] https://patents.google.com/patent/WO2025147771A1/en

    [3] https://patents.google.com/patent/WO2025217724A1/en

    [4] https://www.eetimes.com/taalas-specializes-to-extremes-for-e...

    • generuso2 hours ago
      LSI Logic and VLSI Systems used to do such things in 1980s -- they produced a quantity of "universal" base chips, and then relatively inexpensively and quickly customized them for different uses and customers, by adding a few interconnect layers on top. Like hardwired FPGAs. Such semi-custom ASICs were much less expensive than full custom designs, and one could order them in relatively small lots.

      Taalas of course builds base chips that are already closely tailored for a particular type of models. They aim to generate the final chips with the model weights baked into ROMs in two months after the weights become available. They hope that the hardware will be profitable for at least some customers, even if the model is only good enough for a year. Assuming they do get superior speed and energy efficiency, this may be a good idea.

    • cpldcpu3 hours ago
      It could simply be bit serial. With 4 bit weights you only need four serial addition steps, which is not an issue if the weight are stored nearby in a rom.
  • londons_explore3 hours ago
    So why only 30,000 tokens per second?

    If the chip is designed as the article says, they should be able to do 1 token per clock cycle...

    And whilst I'm sure the propagation time is long through all that logic, it should still be able to do tens of millions of tokens per second...

    • wmf2 hours ago
      You still need to do a forward pass per token. With massive batching and full pipelining you might be able to break the dependencies and output one token per cycle but clearly they aren't doing that.
    • menaerusan hour ago
      Reading from and to memory alone takes much more than a clock cycle.
  • lm28469an hour ago
    Who's going to pay for custom chips when they shit out new models every two weeks and their deluded CEOs keep promising AGI in two release cycles?
    • lancebeet4 minutes ago
      You obviously don't believe that AGI is coming in two release cycles, and you also don't seem to have much faith in the new models containing massive improvements over the last ones. So the answer to who is going to pay for these custom chips seems to be you.
    • NinjaTrance22 minutes ago
      To run Llama 3.1 8B locally, you would need a GPU with a minimum of 16 GB of VRAM, such as an NVIDIA RTX 3090.

      Talas promises a 10x higher throughtput, being 10x cheaper and using 10x less electricity.

      Looks like a good value proposition.

    • brainless32 minutes ago
      New GPUs come out all the time. New phones come out (if you count all the manufacturers) all the time. We do not need to always buy the new one.

      Current open weight models < 20B are already capable of being useful. With even 1K tokens/second, they would change what it means to interact with them or for models to interact with the computer.

      • lm2846923 minutes ago
        hm yeah I guess if they stick to shitty models it works out, I was talking about the models people use to actually do things instead of shitposting from openclaw and getting reminders about their next dentist appointment.
        • brainless9 minutes ago
          The trick with small models is what you ask them to do. I am working on a data extraction app (from emails and files) that works entirely local. I applied for Taalas API because it would be awesome fit.

          dwata: Entirely Local Financial Data Extraction from Emails Using Ministral 3 3B with Ollama: https://youtu.be/LVT-jYlvM18

          https://github.com/brainless/dwata

  • moralestapia3 hours ago
    >HOW NVIDIA GPUs process stuff? (Inefficiency 101)

    Wow. Massively ignorant take. A modern GPUs is an amazing feat of engineering, particularly about making computation more efficient (low power/high throughput).

    Then proceeds to explain, wrongly, how inference is supposssedly implemented and draws conclusions from there ...

    • wmf2 hours ago
      Arguably DRAM-based GPUs/TPUs are quite inefficient for inference compared to SRAM-based Groq/Cerebras. GPUs are highly optimized but they still lose to different architectures that are better suited for inference.
    • beAroundHere2 hours ago
      Hey, Can you please point out explain the inaccuracies in the article?

      I had written this post to have a higher level understanding of traditional vs Taalas's inference. So it does abstracts lots of things.

  • techpulse_x2 hours ago
    [dead]
  • villgax3 hours ago
    This read itself is slop lol, literally dances around the term printing as if its some inkjet printer
  • sargun3 hours ago
    Isn’t the highly connected nature of the model layers problematic to build into physical layer?