102 pointsby zagwdt6 hours ago11 comments
  • MASNeo3 hours ago
    I wish there would be more of this research to speed things up rather than building ever larger models
    • wongarsu27 minutes ago
      Notice how all the major AI companies (at least the ones that don't do open releases) stopped telling us how many parameters their models have. Parameter count was used as a measure for how great the proprietary models were until GPT3, then it suddenly stopped.

      And how inference prices have come down a lot, despite increasing pressure to make money. Opus 4.6 is $25/MTok, Opus 4.1 was $75/MTok, the same as Opus 4 and Opus 3. OpenAI's o1 was $60/MTok, o1 pro $600/MTok, gpt-5.2 is $14/MTok and 5.2-pro is $168/MTok.

      Also note how GPT-4 was rumored to be in the 1.8T realm, and now Chinese models in the 1T realm can match or surpass it. And I doubt the Chinese have a monopoly on those efficiency improvements

      I doubt frontier models have actually substantially grown in size in the last 1.5 years, and potentially have a lot fewer parameters than the frontier models of old

      • 5o1ecist8 minutes ago
        > I doubt frontier models have actually substantially grown in size in the last 1.5 years

        ... and you'd be most likely very correct with your doubt, given the evidence we have.

        What improved disproportionally more than the software- or hardware-side, is density[1]/parameter, indicating that there's a "Moore's Law"-esque behind the amount of parameters, the density/parameter and compute-requirements. As long as more and more information/abilities can be squeezed into the same amount of parameters, inference will become cheaper and cheaper quicker and quicker.

        I write "quicker and quicker", because next to improvements in density there will still be additional architectural-, software- and hardware-improvements. It's almost as if it's going exponential and we're heading for a so called Singularity.

        Since it's far more efficient and "intelligent" to have many small models competing with and correcting each other for the best possible answer, in parallel, there simply is no need for giant, inefficient, monolithic monsters.

        They ain't gonna tell us that, though, because then we'd know that we don't need them anymore.

        [1] for lack of a better term that I am not aware of.

    • nl3 hours ago
      Why not both?

      Scaling laws are real! But they don't preclude faster processing.

  • LarsDu88an hour ago
    A lot of this post-training recipe feels reminiscent of DINO training (teacher/student, use of stop gradients). I wonder if the more recent leJEPA SigREG regularization research might be relevant here for simpler post-training.
  • WiSaGaN43 minutes ago
    I think diffusion makes much more sense than auto-regressive (AR) specifically in code generation comparing to chatbot.
  • bjt123452 hours ago
    I do wonder why diffusion models aren't used alongside constraint decoding for programming - surely it makes better sense then using an auto-regressive model.
    • bob1029an hour ago
      Diffusion models need to infer the causality of language from within a symmetric architecture (information can flow forward or backward). AR forces information to flow in a single direction and is substantially easier to control as a result. The 2nd sentence in a paragraph of English text often cannot come before the first or the statement wouldn't make sense. Sometimes this is not an issue (and I think these are cases where parallel generation makes sense), but the edge cases are where all the money lives.
  • simonwan hour ago
    I'd love to know what's going on with the Gemini Diffusion model - they had a preview last May and it was crazy fast but I've not heard anything since then.
  • yjftsjthsd-h4 hours ago
    Is anyone doing any form of diffusion language models that are actually practical to run today on the actual machine under my desk? There's loads of more "traditional" .gguf options (well, quants) that are practical even on shockingly weak hardware, and I've been seeing things that give me hope that diffusion is the next step forward, but so far it's all been early research prototypes.
    • janalsncman hour ago
      I worked on it for a more specialized task (query rewriting). It’s blazing fast.

      A lot of inference code is set up for autoregressive decoding now. Diffusion is less mature. Not sure if Ollama or llama cpp support it.

    • Bolwin4 hours ago
      Based on my experience running diffusion image models I really hope this isn't going to take over anytime soon. Parallel decoding may be great if you have a nice parallel gpu or npu but is dog slow for cpus
  • LarsDu884 hours ago
    Google is working on a similar line of research. Wonder why they haven't rolled out a GPT40 scaled version of this yet
    • vintermann3 hours ago
      Probably because it's expensive.

      But I wish there were more "let's scale this thing to the skies" experiments from those who actually can afford to scale things to the skies.

      • yorwba2 hours ago
        Scaling laws mean that there's not much need to actually scale things to the skies. Instead, you can run a bunch of experiments at small scale, fit the scaling law parameters, then extrapolate. If the predicted outcome is disappointing (e.g. it's unlikely to beat the previous scaled-to-the-sky model), you can save the really expensive experiment for a more promising approach.

        It would certainly be nice though if this kind of negative result was published more often instead of leaving people to guess why a seemingly useful innovation wasn't adopted in the end.

  • nl2 hours ago
    Releasing this on the same day as Taalas's 16,000 token-per-second acceleration for the roughly comparable Llama 8B model must hurt!

    I wonder how far down they can scale a diffusion LM? I've been playing with in-browser models, and the speed is painful.

    https://taalas.com/products/

    • aurareturn2 hours ago
      Nothing to do with each other. This is a general optimization. Taalas' is an ASIC that runs a tiny 8B model on SRAM.

      But I wonder how Taalas' product can scale. Making a custom chip for one single tiny model is different than running any model trillions in size for a billion users.

      Roughly, 53B transistors for every 8B params. For a 2T param model, you'd need 13 trillion transistor assuming scale is linear. One chip uses 2.5 kW of power? That's 4x H100 GPUs. How does it draw so much power?

      If you assume that the frontier model is 1.5 trillion models, you'd need an entire N5 wafer chip to run it. And then if you need to change something in the model, you can't since it's physically printed on the chip. So this is something you do if you know you're going to use this exact model without changing anything for years.

      Very interesting tech for edge inference though. Robots and self driving can make use of these in the distant future if power draw comes down drastically. 2.4kW chip running inside a robot is not realistic. Maybe a 150w chip.

      • spuza few seconds ago
        The 2.5kW figure is for a server running 10 HC1 chips:

        > The first generation HC1 chip is implemented in the 6 nanometer N6 process from TSMC. ... Each HC1 chip has 53 billion transistors on the package, most of it very likely for ROM and SRAM memory. The HC1 card burns about 200 watts, says Bajic, and a two-socket X86 server with ten HC1 cards in it runs 2,500 watts.

        https://www.nextplatform.com/2026/02/19/taalas-etches-ai-mod...

    • LASR2 hours ago
      Just tried this. Holy fuck.

      I'd take an army of high-school graduate LLMs to build my agentic applications over a couple of genius LLMs any day.

      This is a whole new paradigm of AI.

      • tokenlessan hour ago
        When that genrates 10k of output slop in less latency than my web server doing some crud shit....amazing!
  • hanifbbz2 hours ago
    Is this available as open source anywhere to try?
  • LoganDark2 hours ago
    Can't wait for the day I can actually try a diffusion model on my own machine (128GB M4 Max) rather than as a hosted service. So far I haven't seen a single piece of software that supports it.
  • refulgentis5 hours ago
    If this means there’s a 2x-7x speed up available to a scaled diffusion model like Inception Mercury, that’ll be a game changer. It feels 10x faster already…
    • blurbleblurble4 hours ago
      Diffusion language models seem poised to smash purely autoregressive models. I'm giving it 1-2 years.
      • impossibleforkan hour ago
        One appeal of it is for RL. If it ends up being a lot faster for generation, you'll be able to do a lot more RL.

        If people can make RL scalable-- make it so that RL isn't just a final phase, but something which is as big as the supervised stuff, then diffusion models are going to have an advantage.

        If not, I think autoregressive models will still be preferred. Diffusion models become fixed very fast, they can't actually refine their outputs, so we're not talking about some kind of refinement along the lines of: initial idea -> better idea -> something actually sound.

      • meatmanek3 hours ago
        Feels like the sodium ion battery vs lithium ion battery thing, where there are theoretical benefits of one but the other has such a head start on commercialization that it'll take a long time to catch up.
        • LarsDu88an hour ago
          Not really. Unlike with physical goods like batteries, the hardware for training a diffusion vs an autoregressive language model is more or less exactly the same.

          Although the lab that did this research (Chris Re and Tri Dao are involved) is run by the world's experts in squeezing CUDA and Nvidia hardware for every last drop of performance.

          At the API level, the primary differences will be the addition of text infill capabilities for language generation. I also somewhat expect certain types of generation to be more cohesive (e.g. comedy or stories where you need to think of the punchline or ending first!)

        • sroussey2 hours ago
          Same with digital vs analog