35 pointsby 1vuio0pswjnm75 hours ago6 comments
  • Alifatisk3 hours ago
    This is such great news, we have seen mental health decline a lot this decade while social media among teens have become a commodity.My only concern is how this will be enforced, trusting private entities with IDs and passport doesn’t seem reliable with the recent leaks. We do not want to risk children like this. I don’t know which country started this trend, with banning social media though, maybe it was Australia but I am in favor of it. I hope next step is for schools to ban phones as a whole.
    • bmacho2 hours ago
      > This is such great news, we have seen mental health decline a lot this decade while social media among teens have become a commodity.

      Yes, and simple solution could be (or: could've been) making parents control their kids social media usage. It's only harmful in excessive amounts, several hours a day. (Unlike drugs, or alcohol that only needs secons to be harmful.) Parents can control that, and absolutely would if government told them so.

      There is absolutely no reason to ban kids from social media.

      • Braxton19807 minutes ago
        >simple solution could be (or: could've been) making parents control their kids social media usage

        How?

      • Aeglaecia28 minutes ago
        i dont know if you deleted your response or if it got censored. if you genuinely consider the 2005 internet as comparable to whatever the hell passes for the internet nowdays , then there is no way to bridge our viewpoints.
      • Aeglaeciaan hour ago
        sure, there would be absolutely no reason to ban kids from social media in a utopic society where people treated each other with respect , were all as educated as the average hacker news inhabitant , and behaved rationally. meanwhile in reality, modern social media have nothing to do with socialization and everything to do with abusing brains to maximise engagement. while this point is n=1, it really does not take more than a few minutes for short form content to crash my motivation, so i completely disagree with your 'several hours' figure.

        fuck it, ban kids from having any form of smart phone or social media. give em all sony ericssons with pre paid sims that force them to put effort into their texts and actually socialize. maybe that will give imagination a fighting chance. what possible benefit could there be to let kids doom scroll? if you were a kid, why would you read or play or socialize when you could doom scroll? yes it is a parents responsibility to control their kids, and not one parent has any idea or education as to how modern social media affects a child - do you expect modern parents to spontaneously manifest this knowledge?

        for what its worth , i once suggested to simply make it illegal for parents to let kids on facebook. but that doesn't offer much scope for multi national corporations to scrape PII (which is probably the real priority)

        • 35 minutes ago
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    • greatgiban hour ago
      At the time of the Christian Inquisition horrors, same things happened with books...
  • squeefers2 hours ago
    well thank god it has absolutely no ill effects on adults or wed all be screwed amirite!>!>!/?!one
  • pjc502 hours ago
    I'm not normally given to "conspiracy theory", but .. this feels coordinated, right? Quite possibly by the age verification vendors, or some shadier intelligence service sockpuppeting them?

    It's just so rare for so many governments to simultaneously, suddenly, after so many years of social media agree that it's a problem on the scale of chloroflurocarbons.

    • stuaxo36 minutes ago
      Yes, the 5rights Foundation + their backers are behind the age verification bits and probably the social media ban, I have no idea what their destination is or how far they will take their prohibition.

      They work with other orgs, e.g. Fairplay (formerly CCFC) in the US.

    • hulitu44 minutes ago
      > this feels coordinated, right?

      Yes. Like most of the "news".

      Google, Meta, Microsoft and Apple really need your personal data.

    • greatgiban hour ago
      Sadly it shows that there is really a kind of "world order" conspiracy, and it is not conspiracy theorists that are crazy as we always assumed.

      Just have a look at Epstein files, you can see that a lot of "occidental" politics and business leaders were connected to him one way or another. You see that we don't have equal rights but some get privileged info about big financial changes that could help them grow their wealth.

      Look at how hard we had to fight Microsoft contracts creeping in everywhere in public institutions and schools, when you see in background that Microsoft was spending billions organizing events, gifts, ... to "legally" bribe officials.

      Now we can all see that there is a big dictatorial shift in the political leaders of occidental countries that used to be lands of freedom and rights. Politics see that they are unpopular and there is an uproar of the population to have change, but on the other side they see that a lot of dictatorial countries are able to control their population and stay in power using liberty restriction regulations (China, N Korea, Russia, Arabian countries, ...). So they are going to do the same.

      And the best way for them to support such reduction in freedom for populations is to bound together to do it together: - One "western" country leader that would instigate censorship, and reducing freedom and privacy right would be seen too clearly as abusing and on a dictatorial trend. - But if multiple of them push for that at the same time, it might more easily be seen as "for the greater good", because they are the "free countries"...

      So sad that the second world war is so far away, almost everyone forgot what happened in the years before the Nazi took control of Germany and started the obvious horrors. But we are on the same path.

      Putin's Russia is also a good example of how a country that was on the verge of freedom and liberty for its population, slowly but surely shifted to the current dictatorial state. All of that without a clear "revolution" or sudden shift. And officially it is still a "democratic" country...

    • squeefers2 hours ago
      its because of hysteria. same thing happened with tv. some girl in england killed herself after she herself had been searching out suicide content, the algo obviously suggests it back to her and because of that we basically got the Online Child Safety act. Whos going to tell grieving parents the kid did it to herself?
      • pjc502 hours ago
        > the algo obviously suggests it back to her

        Pro-suicide content has been a thing since the days of USENET. It's been a (lesser) problem on social media since the start. Is it really just that one case got over the hysteria threshold?

        But yes, if the algorithm is suggesting pro-suicide content then the developers are morally, if not legally, liable for that and should expect some consequences. I note that one of the few taboos maintained by the otherwise grossly irresponsible UK media is not reporting on suicide (because this is known to be a trigger). You might see "famous musician died suddenly at a young age" and have to connect the dots yourself.

        • squeefers7 minutes ago
          > But yes, if the algorithm is suggesting pro-suicide content then the developers are morally, if not legally,

          if she hadnt searched for it herself, it wouldnt have suggested it. the parents (understandly) want to blame someone for it. politics is emotion, not logic.

  • PebblesHD4 hours ago
    So don’t allow accounts with ages set below the limit like they already do for under 13s. Why does this translate to every other site wanting my government ID or a scan of my face?

    Just this past 12 months both my drivers license and passport have been involved in data breaches and there are no penalties or recompense for the companies at fault, so my patience for providing ID is near zero.

    • StopDisinfo9104 hours ago
      > So don’t allow accounts with ages set below the limit like they already do for under 13s. Why does this translate to every other site wanting my government ID or a scan of my face?

      Because self inputed age fields don't work. People just lie to access what they want.

      You have to understand that the goal here is not token compliance but actually limiting teenagers exposure to something we now know to be highly addictive and damaging to mental health.

      Clearly, the market is not able to self restrict and will exploit every opportunities given to it. It's only logical to take stronger restriction. That's basically bringing regulations on social media on the same track as tobacco and alcohol.

      Personally, I think it makes a lot of sense.

      • hulitu8 minutes ago
        > You have to understand that the goal here is not token compliance but actually limiting teenagers exposure to something we now know to be highly addictive and damaging to mental health.

        If this would have been the case, proper parental controls would have been in place everywhere. Instead, parental controls are only used to maximize profits.

      • Kim_Bruning4 hours ago
        Ok, let's assume for today that age gating is the thing to to.

        Requiring ID is not entirely the right approach here I think. You're forcing people to reveal PII for limited gain, and building systems you can't knock down later.

        The EU is working on a zero knowledge proof system for exactly this purpose, but it doesn't quite seem to be ready for prime time yet.

        https://ageverification.dev/Technical%20Specification/annexe...

        • aaplok3 hours ago
          > Requiring ID is not entirely the right approach here I think

          It is in the sense that it entices the industry to come up with a better approach.

          Otherwise they'll just sit on their piles of gold saying that it can't be done, as they have been doing for far too long.

          • pjc502 hours ago
            This approach is just fine for the industry: delegate the problem to the lowest, shadiest bidder. After all, privacy breaches aren't their problem. If governments want an ID system they should provide one.
        • StopDisinfo9103 hours ago
          The restricting law is mostly concerned with the age gating, not the how.

          You can expect another law or directive to explain how it has to be done. In the EU, GDPR does apply so you can be sure that poorly storing ID copies for this purpose will not fly.

          But, I think it's clearly what ID is for and a legitimate use case for electronic ID. ID is the tool the state uses to give you a way to prove you are who you pretend to be.

          I think there's something a bit funny in worrying about giving a copy of your IDs to companies who already know everything about you from your full social graph to your political leanings and interests.

          • lbeltrame2 hours ago
            > I think there's something a bit funny in worrying about giving a copy of your IDs to companies who already know everything about you from your full social graph to your political leanings and interests.

            I believe it's because the governments (which are far more powerful than any "corporation", because they have the de facto monopoly of violence: Microsoft can sue you, but the government can just jail you) can then pressure said companies if there's something that is not liked, with all consequences that come from there.

            There's no need to bring conspiracy theories in, FTR. The power of the government must be always limited and bound by strong chains, and this goes in the opposite direction.

      • squeefers2 hours ago
        dont parents control what their kids do? if its that hysterically dangerous, take the phone off your kid.
  • blell2 hours ago
    A certain part of the political aisle are seeing what free flow of information is doing to their youth numbers and they don’t like it. This is only the beginning.