92 pointsby transportheap6 hours ago23 comments
  • sho_hn6 hours ago
    I understand there's been drama, and someone walked away or was pushed out. I don't quite care enough to understand it all or point at guilty parties.

    However, my current understanding is that the project remains active, so titling this article "Post Mortem" feels a bit like it's done in bad faith as it's usually applied to projects that are over. It's certainly what I immediately assumed made it newsworthy.

    • hiccup_socks5 hours ago
      >"Post Mortem" feels a bit like it's done in bad faith as it's usually applied to projects that are over.

      is it? outside of autopsies, i think i have only ever seen it used as a synonym for "incident report". i dont think ive ever associated the term specifically with the end of a project.

      e.g. cloudflare uses the tag for all of their incident reports (https://blog.cloudflare.com/tag/post-mortem/), not as a signal that they are closing shop

      • throwaway_ocr5 hours ago
        In the incident case, it's a post-mortem on the incident. The incident itself is (hopefully) resolved and can now be dissected to learn about what went wrong and how things can improve in the future.

        That's what a post-mortem implies to me in the tech industry. A thing happened, it's over now, here are the lessons we learned to take into the future.

        • sho_hn4 hours ago
          Yes, but Bazzite is not over.
      • kevinrineer5 hours ago
        > ... as a synonym for "incident report"

        People should stop using it as a synonym, then. The Latin effectively means "after death", meaning its a poor synonym for "what happened wrong recently".

        • hiccup_socks5 hours ago
          >The Latin effectively means "after death"

          language evolves over time

          post mortem is even in dictionaries (meriam, oxford, american heritage) as "an analysis or review of a finished event"

          • ktm5jan hour ago
            "Finished" being an important word. Seems like this Bazzite project is not finished and so post mortem is in fact a poor choice of words.
      • sho_hn5 hours ago
        Gamasutra has a famous line of articles where game developers provide retrospectives on how the development of their titles went, maybe I'm influenced by that.

        I'm aware about the use in incident reports of course, but then you still don't call it "<project name> Post-Mortem" but use a more specific namespace.

    • jovial_cavalier5 hours ago
      Antheas was the #1 most active developer, and responsible for almost all low level integrations.
      • bee_rider5 hours ago
        Just based on this blog post it seems like he wanted the project to be more “professional” in some way that the rest of the developer group didn’t. I wonder if that difference in vision, combined with a (probably justified based on your comment) feeling that he was doing a disproportionate amount of the work lead to an unsustainable situation.

        Calling it a post-mortem while others are continuing the project still seems kind of petty, though.

      • sho_hn5 hours ago
        Software history is rife with projects that outlive a person like that leaving, though. Ulrich Drepper comes to mind immediately. They don't own the project.
      • aprilwaters4 hours ago
        Nope, he was not, and his software will be replaced.
    • Forgeties796 hours ago
      As a bazzite user who had no idea anything was up until this headline, yes that was very concerning at first glance
    • 0xedd5 hours ago
      [dead]
  • hysan20 minutes ago
    Linking related post: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46818467

    AFAIK, removing Antheas from Bazzite opened the door to discussions for forming the OGC. Prior to that, Antheas had created such difficult situations that many of the member groups in the OGC did not collaborate with Bazzite because of his presence. Whether or not the OGC actually works (ex: getting patches upstreamed faster), only time will tell.

  • shantara5 hours ago
    It’s worth pointing out that the official Bazzite position is that Antheas was removed from the project for breaching Code of Conduct and harassing people in their official Discord server
    • dismalaf5 hours ago
      Was it real harassment or some micro-micro-micro-aggression that only terminally online people would care about?
      • 5G_activated3 hours ago
        it was clearly bad enough for everyone else to decide that they didn't want to put up with him anymore. which is what happens in the real world.

        online, everyone considers themselves a public figure. and because we can't seem to get shot of public figures, whether they be rapists, homophobes, or just arseholes, alleged or proven, they believe, logically, you shouldn't be able to be rid of them.

        offline, if you have someone who makes your life a misery, you tell them to fuck off.

      • shantara5 hours ago
        It didn’t impact me as a user, and I let the maintainers deal with their drama.
      • micromacrofoot5 hours ago
        was publicly being rude to the point of making other contributors leave (even after being asked to stop) and at least one case of using a slur

        they said it themselves in this post

        > Yes, I know I am hard to work with. Yes, I know that I pushed certain OSS contributors away.

        generally the kind of person that gives open source a bad reputation, you can be critical or anti-social without being an asshole

      • jajuuka5 hours ago
        Pretty much. He said some mean words. The cult of personality around the other maintainer has spun it into something way worse that he someone made other people quit OSS or something. It's hog wash and not backed up by anything.
        • Forgeties79an hour ago
          >He said some mean words.

          I guarantee you I can say some mean words that would upset you at some point. If you have to repeatedly deal with it, you'd likely leave the space we share or ask someone to make me leave. Words have power, we shouldn't pretend otherwise.

          • jajuukaan hour ago
            1. Being called an idiot or told my idea is dumb is not going to upset me. I guess I just have more emotional maturity than some OSS devs.

            2. Why would I leave when I can just block you if you are harassing me?

            3. Why are you inventing this hypothetical instead of just showing where that occurred?

            4. No-one has said words don't have power. But being on the internet you should be able to recognize that you won't be friends with everyone. So you have to develop some basic emotional regulation for silly insults.

            • squigz21 minutes ago
              > 1. Being called an idiot or told my idea is dumb is not going to upset me. I guess I just have more emotional maturity than some OSS devs.

              Alternatively, other people just have more respect for themselves (and others) than to stand to repeatedly be called an idiot.

  • maeln5 hours ago
    Sometimes I feel like Discord as been nothing but a bane on OSS. A chat is inherently less searchable than a wiki/forum/documentation, and those sources are often readable without needing to authenticate, which meant that you could find an answer through Google and such. Most project now don't bother with publicly readable and archivable (and so offline viewable) information sources and just rely on Discord. This lead to the same newbie question being answered over and over again, and is a clear degradation of the UX. But on top of that, most people see Discord as a hangout. Almost all Discord server I know have an "offtopic"/"random"/"meme"/etc channel, if not several. This almost inevitably lead to drama on a scale that newsgroups and IRC fellows could have only dreamed off. And considering that a lot of devs are able to create drama over even a mailing list, Discord is turbocharging the ability for nuisance.

    Maybe it's my "Am I out of touch ? No it's the children who are wrong" moment, but I really think OSS projects would benefit from ditching discord.

    • digiown39 minutes ago
      It is. I'm not a fan of Drew Devault, but I can agree with this article of his:

      https://drewdevault.com/2021/12/28/Dont-use-Discord-for-FOSS...

      The most salient part:

      > Using Discord partitions your community on either side of a walled garden, with one side that’s willing to use the proprietary Discord client, and one side that isn’t. It sets up users who are passionate about free software — i.e. your most passionate contributors or potential contributors — as second-class citizens.

      • jajuuka34 minutes ago
        Wouldn't any platform have the same problem though? A forum would partition the community between those willing to make an account and submit private information and those who aren't. It seems like no matter what platform you choose there will always be those who are willing to participate and those who are not.
        • digiown29 minutes ago
          Not quite. Discord is a lot more invasive with their info collection than, let's say Github or Matrix servers. Second, the info posted to Github is accessible without account, which is not true of Discord.
    • yomismoaqui5 hours ago
      You are not out of touch, I rember in the 90s when people recommended using IRC for Linux questions and I hated it.

      I didn't want to ask something and interacting in pseudo-realtime with another human being (that could potentionally laugh at me for asking a n00b question).

      News groups were a little better for this, but the real progress was when you could search them or later read the answer in Stack Overflow. And the final step here is a LLM agent that has a web/doc search tool and can answer more difficult questions.

    • opan5 hours ago
      Strongly agreed. I'd like to see users pushing more for this. Return to IRC, try XMPP or Matrix, put up a forum. Lots of options exist that would be more freedom-respecting, stable, and publicly searchable.
  • jna_sh5 hours ago
    Been on Bazzite for a while now and had very few issues, though to backup the sentiments of Antheas here, they have managed to upset the maintainer of the Go-XLR Linux Utility with their fast and loose HW changes: https://github.com/GoXLR-on-Linux/goxlr-utility/issues/239

    Looking around a couple of adjacent communities, it seems the Bazzite maintainers might have acted in the best community interest on this one, so I'm optimistic things will continue in a positive way. Still, might make me a little less full-throated about recommending Bazzite, knowing there's such drama under the surface.

  • uncletaco6 hours ago
    Very nice of Bazzite to adopt Drama Tuesday. They are true gamers.
    • RicoElectrico4 minutes ago
      It's as if everything gaming related attracts immature types. YouTube comment sections, forums, software projects...
    • 8372632920293 hours ago
      That must've sounded coherent in your head.
  • mhitza5 hours ago
    I guess the good thing about Bazzite, CachyOS, Omarchy and what have you, is that it brings new users to Linux.

    I would still like to see most users pick established distros, as contributions there have a higher impact on the ecosystem. But self-named gamers are probably harder to reason with.

    • ThatMedicIsASpy11 minutes ago
      The good part of Bazzite is I can just rebase to fedora kinoite and continue to be happy.
    • caconym_4 hours ago
      I've been using desktop Linux for 20 years in various capacities. I most recently picked Bazzite for my gaming/desktop VM because it's simple to set up and works better than other distros I've tried to game on in the recent past. It's that simple.
    • exographicskip5 hours ago
      Been running cachyos for months, drama-free
  • cobolexpert5 hours ago
    Relevant comment from some months ago [1].

    Personally I find that sticking to distros backed by companies or very large communities is just easier in the long term (Debian/Ubuntu/Fedora/Arch).

    [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46092225

    • jajuuka5 hours ago
      On desktops and servers yeah. Bazzite was a bit of a special case as it was catered to handheld devices. So it did have that going for it. A one stop install that just supported everything on these devices from the start.
      • opan5 hours ago
        I've been thinking we could eliminate a lot of niche specialized distros by replacing them with system configs for Guix System or NixOS. Maybe if you got Ansible involved it could work for Debian and Arch also. Set your default packages, custom kernel, whatever else in there. Everything needing a big brand, name, logo, website, and so on seems a bit excessive at times.
        • shantara4 hours ago
          Now it’s your responsibility to explain what any of these words mean to an average user who just wants to play their Steam games. Like it or not, brands have power. It’s been hard enough to convince people already willing to try Linux gaming to use one of the dedicated gaming distros, instead of waiting for when SteamOS is going to support their hardware.
        • plagiarist4 hours ago
          Bazzite is sortof in that category, though. Fedora atomic is a podman container image, and Bazzite is using that as FROM in their Containerfile. It's niche and specialized only to the extent that they're providing gaming specific setup (like Nvidia drivers). It's mostly a Fedora system.

          https://github.com/ublue-os/bazzite/blob/main/Containerfile

      • cobolexpert5 hours ago
        Maybe SteamOS will help with this!
        • ycombinatrix2 hours ago
          What do you mean? SteamOS is backed by a large company.
          • cobolexpert10 minutes ago
            As it slowly starts working on another platforms, it can fill in Bazzite's role (a bit ironic I guess, given Bazzite is inspired on SteamOS)
  • razighter7775 hours ago
    This is pure dramaposting- "post-mortem" is so misleading and mischaracterizes the situation. I don't use bazzite, I don't know Kyle or anybody here, but I am tired of the drama.

    All of the things listed in the blog are personal and technical disagreements, nothing morally reprehensible, no disrespect, nothing that would make anyone want to burn bridges like this.

    It's fine to leave a project and to publicize disagreements but this comes across as spiteful.

  • ziml776 hours ago
    Glad I decided not to stick with Bazzite. I gave it a try a few months ago and had issues with Bazaar crashing (not at all low end hardware btw). If the primary method to install software was that broken on a fresh install, there was no way I was going to trust the OS at all, no matter how many people on YouTube and HN talked about how amazing it is.
    • xd19365 hours ago
      What alternative did you switch to?
      • ziml775 hours ago
        I went with CachyOS. It's based off of Arch and compiles packages with flags for more modern CPUs. They also build extra packages that aren't normally provided by Arch (always nice to rely a little less on the AUR). And their default scheduler is supposed to provide a smoother gaming experience, though they have a selection of schedulers if you don't like that one.
      • TehCorwiz5 hours ago
        I tried it but couldn't get it stable on my system. Ended up with EndeavorOS which is arch-based with a much better-install process.
      • Cyph0n5 hours ago
        I never tried Bazzite, but have been using Jovian, which is a NixOS-based gaming setup.

        I have heard that CachyOS (Arch) and Nobara (Fedora) are two other decent options.

  • teamspirit6 hours ago
    Bazzite made it so easy to switch from windows. I first tried cachyos but bazzite’s gamemode worked perfectly from the start, hdr and vrr included, on nvidia. Turned an expensive PC into an expensive console and made me so happy. Just the fact I can sleep the system mid-game and resume is magic!

    Guess I gotta go back to cachy and try again. Bummer

    • uncletaco6 hours ago
      Why? Because some guy was pushed out of the friend group?
      • teamspirit5 hours ago
        Well, yes, but that’s an over simplification. My main concern is the instability. I don’t want to deal with a project that’s in turmoil and Cachy feels like a more stable project, even before reading any of this. It’s a larger user base and therefore more likely to stick around (or so I tell myself).
        • 5G_activated2 hours ago
          i'd be surprised if there are more users of cachy than bazzite.

          what gets missed is that bazzite is, to borrow video game parlance, a mod of fedora's atomic desktops. every piece created to build and maintain the system is on github. it's not rocket science, it's a collection of dockerfiles, rpm specs, config files and github actions workflows. and fedora is not going away any time soon.

      • ziml775 hours ago
        It's silly to reduce all issues like this to just pointless drama between people. It affects the product, especially if key people are pushed out. From the sounds of it, the person left running the show has already made a bunch of bad decisions (as I already commented on I ran into one of the issues caused by those bad decisions).
      • tracker15 hours ago
        The guy that did the bulk of the hardware integration work...
  • helle2536 hours ago
    man, i was JUST thinking about switching out windows for bazzite, because the only thing i use my windows machine for is video games...

    might need to hold off on that, as much as it pains me, with all the weird & sloppy updates windows is pushing out.

    • waisbrot5 hours ago
      I would still recommend trying Bazzite today.

      If we take the post as truth (it's not clear to me whether we can), then Bazzite will get iffy kernel updates that will particularly break handhelds. But desktop will be more stable and you could even turn off automatic updates for 6months and see how things look after.

      I think Bazzite has a very smooth experience for Windows gaming and even if you decide that you don't like it or that the distro really is falling apart, you'll have gotten the best Linux-gaming experience and can evaluate other distros more clearly.

    • vurudlxtyt5 hours ago
      Just install another distribution—Bazzite has some conveniences in setup, but doesn’t fundamentally provide anything that you can’t get elsewhere, and a lot of those customizations you probably won’t need.

      I decided to try Fedora Kinoite for my gaming machine (to have something with less “maybe not maintained one day stuff” out of the box and a long term community of maintenance), and have been happy.

    • ta90006 hours ago
      I’d recommend trying Linux Mint with Steam.
      • dismalaf5 hours ago
        Mint needs to die. It's the most ancient, archaic distro ever.

        Replacing something that's SOTA with something that still uses X11 and years old software isn't it (it makes Debian Stable look modern).

        • tomth5 hours ago
          I've had issues with Wayland, even in 2025, but never with X11. X11 may be old, but it's stable. Mint is for normal people, not us. I do have it on my travel laptop though, because well, it never has any issues.
          • ta9000an hour ago
            Yeah, sorry, I’m a normal person I guess.
        • ta9000an hour ago
          The latest version (with support through 2029) was released last month. It installed and runs flawlessly.

          https://www.linuxmint.com/rel_zena_whatsnew.php

          • dismalafan hour ago
            It's literally based on a 2 year old Ubuntu LTS... This is what I mean. It's very outdated.
            • ta900021 minutes ago
              So what’s your alternative?
              • tapoxi12 minutes ago
                Bazzite or Cachy

                Mint won't even boot for me because it doesn't support my year old GPU (9070 XT). That's a huge miss when someone is looking at an OS primarily for gaming.

                • ta90005 minutes ago
                  I’ll look into Cachy. Bazzite I’m not going to touch because it seems politically toxic.
              • dismalaf5 minutes ago
                Fedora Workstation, Fedora Silverblue, regular (non-LTS) Ubuntu are in my experience best for newbs. After that Debian. After that Arch.

                For gaming specifically, I've heard good things about Nobara (dev is a RedHatter, though it's his personal project) and CachyOS.

        • morshu90015 hours ago
          I tried Linux desktop for the first time in like a decade. Didn't know Xorg was deprecated for real, as in most distros moved to Wayland. Was surprised that the one hold out was Mint. And learned the hard way that Mint didn't work on my fairly normal PC, due to an Xorg issue.

          This is the thing so many people recommend?! No wonder Linux is unpopular.

          Also there like 20 competing ways to install packages now. Used to just be apt.

          • esseph5 hours ago
            > Also there like 20 competing ways to install packages now. Used to just be apt

            This is very incorrect. There's been far more for 35+ years

            * apt/.deb

            * yum(dnf)/.rpm

            * Tarballs

            * Ports trees

            * Flatpak

            * Snap

            * Etc, etc, etc

            • morshu90015 hours ago
              Flatpak and Snap are new to me, and that's the annoyance. Like I get if there's some technical advantage to a snap, but apt can install snaps too. Also idk what .appimage is.

              rpm was a thing that existed but wasn't a Mint way of installing. Tar, yes. I can see why you'd consider a tar a package, but I was thinking of things actually designed for packages, and tar isn't really an extra thing to learn and deal with. Port tree, idk never heard of that.

              • esseph5 hours ago
                > Flatpak and Snap are new to me and that's the annoyance.

                These were designed to solve different problems.

                PS - Just avoid snap. Fuck snap. All my homies hate snap.

                Flatpak otoh is software basically delivered in a container with some security restrictions. It works great, but you may want a GUI problem called "flatseal" to enable access to certain parts of the host filesystem, device access, etc depending on specifics of what the particular application is supposed to do. That's a bit of a security boundary (good).

                Flatpak does solve several big issues with the minor and only occasional need to use flatseal to enable access to say something in /proc /dev etc

                Snap happened in 2014

                Flatpak in 2015

                So you've got about 10 years of catch-up ;)

                • morshu90014 hours ago
                  I'm not really obligated to catch up on that. I'll try Linux again if they ever sort these things out, until then Mac is a fine dev/personal machine.
                  • plagiarist4 hours ago
                    Are you sure that's okay? It has App Store, .pkg, drag-to-install, homebrew, MacPorts, and who knows what else!
                    • morshu90013 hours ago
                      MacPorts vs Homebrew is actually my biggest gripe with Mac dev, but at least it doesn't get in the way of installing basic software. Regular stuff is always intuitive and ends up with a .app. Even lots of dev stuff is just a .pkg you download, macports/homebrew is for niches.
                  • esseph4 hours ago
                    > I'll try Linux again if they ever sort these things out

                    You don't understand. This won't be "sorted out", this is a feature.

                    Maybe it's just not for you, and that's ok.

                    • morshu90013 hours ago
                      You said it yourself, "fuck snap." But Snap is the default for a bunch of things. There's probably someone else saying "fuck flatpak." The user doesn't win this way, it's not a feature.
                      • eikenberry3 hours ago
                        Snaps are a Canonical thing and is only used by default on Ubuntu and distro's based on Ubuntu. No other distro uses or recommends them.
                        • morshu90012 hours ago
                          Those are the popular distros though. Switch to something else and you trade 1 problem for 10.
                          • eikenberryan hour ago
                            If you want to base it on popularity then you should use Debian. Debian and its child distros (of which Ubuntu is one) make up the majority of Linux distros and the child distros are still 99% Debian.
                          • essephan hour ago
                            Flatpak is available on every distro.
                      • essephan hour ago
                        Snap is Ubuntu and derivatives only which is a respectable but smaller segment of the options.

                        It's also a fucking system daemon that runs in the background. Avoid.

                        Flatpak is available on every distro.

        • yjftsjthsd-h5 hours ago
          (Even if they're all true) Do any of those things matter to a user? If the goal is to ditch Windows and have something else that can run Steam and a web browser and maybe some other applications, being "ancient" sounds just as likely to mean "stable and actually works"
          • ta9000an hour ago
            The stability is why I prefer Linux Mint for gaming. Everything just works, even on my modern hardware.

            dismalaf: I definitely don’t care about gestures on my desktop computer.

          • dismalaf5 hours ago
            One immediately noticeable thing is the lack of gestures on X11. Touchpad and touchscreen gestures just work in Wayland, most DEs implement them OOTB, even Hyprland has them.

            Imagine going from a modern OS to one that doesn't have touchpad gestures in 2026. Yeah there's workarounds but having to config that isn't a good user experience.

        • 5 hours ago
          undefined
  • hiprob5 hours ago
    what exactly happened to bazzite? I've seen so much hype around the distro and buzz among normal people, that it almost became THE normal gamer distro, so much so it completely overshadowed nobara and whatever other gamer gimmick distros are out there
  • BoppreH6 hours ago
    As a happy Bazzite user, I had no idea things were so bumpy. At least the migration to other os-tree distros is trivial (Fedora Kinoite -> Bazzite was one or two shell commands). My main reason for using the distro was the built-in nvidia drivers for my old graphics card.
  • dismalaf5 hours ago
    For everyone who thinks this is the death of Bazzite or whatever, keep in mind Bazzite, all the UBlue projects, are all based on Fedora Atomic which makes it super easy to make an immutable spin.

    There's also Silverblue which is ready to go out of the box (unless you have Nvidia), Nobara which adds some gaming things. And on a different vein CachyOS is making waves with some gamers (but it's Arch based instead of Fedora and not atomic/immutable).

    • exitb5 hours ago
      Also Jovian Nix, which is great if someone is already invested in that ecosystem.
  • devl5475 hours ago
    >Bazzite's fate is sealed as a non-commercial hobbyist-like OS.

    Sounds like good news to me.

  • rolymath5 hours ago
    This blog post is the only exposure I have to this whole thing, and from it, all I can say for sure is that this post is incredibly immature.
  • moonlion_eth5 hours ago
    Community member is problematic, makes themselves the victim
  • CodinM6 hours ago
    God damn it Kyle.
  • WhereIsTheTruth5 hours ago
    You like me for my (always right) conspiratorial takes

    I got another one:

    Look, follow the money, Microsoft knows Windows 11 on handhelds is a dumpster fire right now, and they are not ready to drop their own "Xbox Portable" yet

    So how do they keep the market from moving to the alternative SteamOS/Valve?

    They trojan horse the "alternative"

    Think about it: Bazzite pops up, gains massive community "trust", every traditionally pro-MSFT media talk about it, and then coincidentally becomes the loudest voice trashing GPD's HW support, why would they do that?

    It's a classic Embrace, Extend, Extinguish play

    FUD: Use Bazzite as an "undercover" $MSFT project to make GPD look like a risky, unoptimized mess

    Damage: GPD takes the hit because they are actually trying to innovate, while the "community" devs (who are definitely on a $MSFT gang) tell everyone to just buy an Rog Ally ($MSFT Partner) or wait for the next Microsoft Xbox handheld

    Pivot: Once GPD is sidelined as a "niche hobbyist risk", Microsoft drops a polished Handheld UX for Windows, Bazzite magically "loses funding" or support, and everyone gets funneled back into the Game Pass ecosystem on "approved" hardware

    Bazzite isn't a "community project", it's a trojan hose

    GPD bet on the wrong horse thinking that community was neutral

    • liamgm3 hours ago
      not undercover, kyle is microsoft employee based on his github bio.

      also if you wanna support linux on gaming, just buy hardware that support steamos like steamdeck, steam machine, steam frame, legion go s, rog ally.

    • malicka5 hours ago
      Convoluted, but hypothetically possible. We have no reason to think that right now, though…
    • 0xedd4 hours ago
      [dead]
  • rbtbisrespected5 hours ago
    [dead]
  • ramon1565 hours ago
    I don't care enough about the drama to deep-dive, but as far as I can tell both parties are at fault. At least Bazzite did not make a "post mortem" blog post on a project that is still active. Bit petty if you ask me
  • moribvndvs5 hours ago
    Leftism and OSS share a similar problem, being that good ideas, intentions, and works are squandered by petty drama and insecure egos.