I suspect the Ring mass surveillance ads are the same thing.
Car companies do this too. Frequently expensive cars are advertised to people who could never buy them. The ad makes them associate it with luxury. That helps rich people associate it with luxury because luxury is often based on a social consensus.
Maybe all ads are made to sell you things, but the thing being solid is always an idea. Sometimes that idea isn't as simple as "go buy this now"
- Feb–Mar 2022 (before full production/marketing stoppage): RosIndex reported that 94.3% knew the Coca-Cola brand.
- 2023 (roughly a year after global brands stopped producing in Russia): 88.6% of consumers knew the Coca-Cola brand.
5.7% drop in recognition in one year translates to billions of losses if scaled to US market. So yes, Coca Cola has to constantly run ads.
Veblen goods are status symbols, and something can't confer status if nobody else knows they're supposed to be awed by how expensive it is.
> Who is the buyer?
With your tax money. With your votes.
They're there not to sell you a plane directly but to make you happy with the money spent. To make you excited about the machines.
Think of it as a political ad, not a sales ad
The best way to invest "against" the F-35 is to put money in companies like Embraer and Saab, which have put up a strong fight on the export market.
Who do you know who is currently sitting in a seat of massive power in the US Government, watches TV and says things like, "I need to have that! Why do we not have that already? It will project strength, and all the best governments project strength at every opportunity!"
Even if it only moves the needle on 2-3 sales every decade, the ROI is probably great.
3,000lbs of avgas is only a few thousand dollars, you can run a formation flight for less than $15,000 plus maintenance. Cynically speaking, that's a bit of a steal when you've got the private sector paying millions for a 30-second ad spot.
https://www.af.mil/News/Article-Display/Article/4384084/air-...
Using a few planes for a fly-by, particularly of anything other than B2, wouldn’t possibly “give away” any info.
Caveat: A non-trivial number of air assets are currently stationed or assigned on the other side of the world right now.
Citation: I used to be involved with flyovers.
This interview with Forbes from a few months ago provides some extra details: https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidphelan/2025/12/05/how-sear...
1. Apparently what happens is that the AI scans the videos of surrounding cameras and pings the owner to ask if they can share the footage. So no video is shared unless the owner chooses.
2. Ring is indeed working on being able to detect people.
That's all fine and good until we hear "oops, turns out all the customer video feeds were streaming to our cop accessible servers 24/7!".
I don't believe Ring's claims (or flock etc etc) for one second.
- Sedgwick, Kansas (2024): Former Police Chief Lee Nygaard resigned after it was discovered he used Flock cameras to track his ex-girlfriend and her new partner 228 times over four months, according to The Wichita Eagle and KAKE.
- Menasha, Wisconsin (Jan 2026): Officer Cristian Morales was charged with misconduct in office for allegedly using the Flock system to track his ex-girlfriend, WLUK-TV reported. Morales admitted to using the system due to "desperation" and "bad judgment".
- Orange City, Florida (2025): Officer Jarmarus Brown was charged with stalking after reportedly running his girlfriend's license plate 69 times, her mother's 24 times, and her brother's 15 times over seven months, the Miami Herald reported.
- San Diego, California (2021): Sergeant Mariusz Czas was arrested for stalking his ex-girlfriend using police resources
https://fox11online.com/news/crime/menasha-police-officer-ac...
https://local12.com/news/nation-world/police-chief-gets-caug...
"A suspected criminal walked past your house the other day, mind sharing your doorbell cam footage with us?"
"Sure officer, no problem!"
None of them have contracts with, nor can they sell to, federal agencies. Agencies have to provide a warrant, and the processes are verified through each of the companies' respective legal teams.
Their recordings data is not generally available for sale; that's a legal minefield, but there are official channels to go through. Geofence warrants and things like that aren't conducive to real-time surveillance, and the practice of using those types of reverse-search , differential analysis uses of sensitive data is under review by the Supreme Court; it's thought that they're going to weigh in on the side of the 4th amendment and prohibit overbroad fishing expeditions, even if there's snazzy math behind it.
TLDR; They need to pay the company, either via subscription or direct charge for T&M, require warrants, and the use is limited in scope. It's burdensome and expensive enough that they're not going to be using it for arbitrary random "let's scan everyone's doorbell cams in case there's an illegal immigrant!" situations, but if there's a drug dealer, violent offender, or some specific high value target, they're going to use the broad surveillance tools wherever they can.
Hell even if you tell them to get a warrant, they'll just go and get Betty next door's footage instead.
"computer, search the entire flock database (which in partnership with ring also includes everybody's doorbell and security cameras[0]) for this minority, and plot a map of their whereabouts over time[1]"
0: https://www.flocksafety.com/blog/flock-safety-and-ring-partn...
1: https://www.flocksafety.com/blog/flock-nova-smarter-investig...
What other methods have actually worked?
I don’t own a Ring camera (or any similar device), but the idea that someone could spend time unnoticed on my porch, messing with my stuff, right where my daughter likes to play on weekends, makes my skin crawl.
If that happened to me, I’d probably just double down on security to be honest. Knowing that some people actually feel it's the right thing to do makes me wonder if I shouldn't start today.
To be clear, I have no issue with someone peacefully informing people in their neighborhood about the potential dire consequences of enabling "share images of my doorbell with the government or other private agencies", that's all fine to me. But if you feel the need to impose your views by harassing me about it or by breaking the law to get your point across, you won't get an ally in me.
We're in a slow moving civil war at this point. Looking for sympathy stopped making sense a long time ago. You're either pro humanity or pro property tbh
You don't realize this type of thinking is exactly what contributes to the "civil war"? Same with all this virtue signaling where if you're even slightly for some sort of immigration enforcement you're labeled as not being "pro humanity" or whatever, and then a populist gets in power because the other side's rallying cry is "there's no illegal on stolen land". In the wake of the killing of Renée Good, Trump's approval on immigration was 48% approve to 52% disapprove. In the same survey, who do you think voters trusted more on immigration? Still Republicans, 44% to 33%.
https://prod-i.a.dj.com/public/resources/documents/Redacted_...
If you're not going to ally with the people fighting the surveillance systems that are currently being used by the secret police to disappear and kill people what does that make you. My cause doesn't need your sympathy it needs to stop this horror. I'm not quite saying "with or against" but you are saying "against."
1990s Ireland:
A: "hey guys, maybe it's a bad idea to set off bombs in public places to promote Irish independence. You won't get an ally in me."
B: "If you're not going to ally with the people fighting British that are currently subjugating the Irish what does that make you. My cause doesn't need your sympathy it needs to stop this horror. I'm not quite saying "with or against" but you are saying "against.""
I gave the video footage from my car to local police and insurance company and the insurance companies ruled I was at fault because I was in reverse.
https://www.reuters.com/technology/tesla-workers-shared-sens...
Since I didn’t capture who was driving, the police didn’t charge them with hit and run.
People generally aren't complaining about home owners mounting cameras for themselves (the car is no different). A 3rd party combining the interconnected nature of their system into a holistic system with sweeping coverage is much different than a single person figuring out who hit their car.
Since police absolutely have no care about porch pirates where i live, I rig my camera to turn up a siren for 10 seconds (using a homekit power plug) when it sees someone near my townhome after 11PM (this is enough to usually scare them off to easier pickings). It wouldn't be so bad if the kids bedroom wasn't on the first floor and we are on the third, but it is what it is. At least its only really bad in late spring and summer, the only time when Seattle's long rainy season comes in useful.
Its too bad that I can't bike in Seattle anymore, the theft situation just makes it too unbearable (and probably why you see fewer people biking these days even though they are dumping lots of money into biking infrastructure). Think what we could do with cameras like we've done with apple tags to ramp down bike theft (then again, police don't care, and people aren't ready to go vigilante here).
Are you OK with being tracked everywhere you go in public so that some bad guys don't get away with their bad activities? Many people are.
I am in favor of the flock cameras. Most people tend to behave if they know they are being watched. They have helped reduce crime in the cities they've been deployed in.
https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2025/11/flock-haters-cro...
https://www.wyden.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/wyden_letter_to_f...
https://www.wyden.senate.gov/news/press-releases/wyden-krish...
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2025/06/flock-safetys-feature-...
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2024/11/human-toll-alpr-errors
https://www.404media.co/a-texas-cop-searched-license-plate-c...
https://www.404media.co/ice-taps-into-nationwide-ai-enabled-...
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2025/10/flocks-gunshot-detecti...
https://denverite.com/2025/10/27/bow-mar-flock-cameras-accus...
https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/detroit/2025...
https://www.aclu.org/news/privacy-technology/doritos-or-gun - not flock but a dangerous example of AI surveillance camera false positives risking people's lives.
And even with that minimal effort I've already provided about the same quality of sources that Flock corporate does for their claims.
Cities aren't pulling out of Flock contacts because Flock isn't effective at clearing crimes. They're pulling out because Flock has garbage security, lies about who has/had access to the data, and generally argues in bad faith about all of it.
These are separate concerns.
I think ALPRs with proper access controls, short retention periods, and strict auditing/oversight are a net good. Flock... Not so much.
If it helps catch 1/10 criminals? or even 1 more out of 100 criminals than would be otherwise caught?
I am. I have nothing to hide. Also, in public, anyone can record you on video without your permission anyway.
What's your full name and current address? Where do you work? What locations do you frequent in your day-to-day life? Who do you live with and spend the most time with? Can you please list their full names and contact information? Would you mind turning on location tracking on your phone? Once you've done this, let me know and I'll email you so you can share it with me.
Because they have nothing hide they shouldn’t fear anyone being able to access this information after all.
Also Flock cameras just record license plates. Have you ever been to South Korea, Taiwan, Singapore or any other democratic nation with lots of CCTVs? Have you seen the crime rates there? basically 0. I wish we could have those levels of crime in the U.S.
It's very suspicious that you're being so uncooperative. I'm starting a Flock competitor and we sell our products to law enforcement and private businesses [3]. You seem to be against giving me this data, which feels anti-American and against traditional American values which are clearly afoul of NSPM-7 [4]. This will earn you a label of "potential domestic terrorist" in our database [5]. This, in combination with your "ethnic"-sounding username is enough to gain the attention of our users [6][7], so I suggest you comply to make America safer.
Why don't we start with something simpler? How about just your license plate number, current location, and a photograph of your vehicle taken while you're driving it (ideally along routes which we know you take so that you're not flagged [8][9])? Flock collects this information (along with a history of where that plate was recognized), so surely this shouldn't be an issue?
[1] https://www.404media.co/license-plate-reader-company-flock-i...
[2] https://www.flocksafety.com/products/flock-nova
[3] https://www.flocksafety.com/blog/flock-launches-first-ever-b...
[4] https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/09/coun...
[5] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46903556
[6] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kavanaugh_stop
[7] https://www.404media.co/emails-reveal-the-casual-surveillanc...
[8] https://apnews.com/article/immigration-border-patrol-surveil...
The proposed solution is lovely. And having the tools of the surveillance state available for things like a lost child or tracking a porch pirate or whathaveyou should be nice things we should be able to have.
But we won't get those nice things, but Big Brother will whether we like that or not.
Turns out this deviant package stabber, surely a scruffy disgruntled man in his 40s who was likely on six types of meth, cloaked and operating in the shroud of darkness, was actually a mischievous raven. I'm glad we didn't expand the surveillance hell hole that has the US has absentmindedly embraced just to find the infamous package stabber was a raven. The neighbors, many of whom were screaming for blood, were incredibly let down when we shared what had actually happened.
Not super relevant, but funny. Also, fuck Ring.
When we had a porch pirate, I absolutely shared that video with the police. Screw that guy. But it was our deliberate decision to share the video and we decided exactly how much to give them. I like having the ability to help law enforcement. I demand the right to choose how and when to do so.