Americans want heat pumps – but high electricity prices may get in the way(theconversation.com)

21 pointsby PaulHoule4 hours ago5 comments

hnburnsy7 minutes ago
Well for heat pump hot water heaters you are going to get them in 2029, like it or not...
https://www.hotwater.com/info-center/doe-regulations/doe-res...
OldSchoolan hour ago
I've been using two heat pumps near Austin, Texas since 2011, rated at a total of 84,000 BTU/hr (4 ton + 3 ton capacity) (25KW of heat) on a total of 5KW electrical input (COP ~= 5.0).
They are standard outdoor air heat exchangers so below about 35F efficiency drops significantly. That's pretty rare around here so it is almost always enough - we can still gain about 45F vs the outdoor temperature even below 20F.
We don't have natural gas available where I live, only propane. When I purchased the heat pumps, propane was $5/gallon for 91,500 BTU. That translates to about $4.60/hr to run 84,000 BTU/hr of furnace. With electric energy (cheap in Texas!) at about $0.11/KWh, the equivalent costs of my heat pumps was and remains close to about $0.55/hr to run.
In the summer, they cool with equal capacity and similar power consumption for a 15 SEER rating (waste heat from the system components works against cooling in the summer!)
Factor in your acquisition costs (mine, just after the housing bust and with a little legwork, were about 20% of retail at the time, so a no-brainer) and you can get a lot more objective idea what you're really accomplishing.
20 minutes ago
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atlgator3 hours ago
Do we though? I've had both and I much prefer natural gas.
- zippyman552 hours ago
  I'm a big natural gas guy (for cooking) with property in Coastal California. But, I think getting off gas may be the way to go. My utility bill requires a gas transport fee, and looking at it, when I am absent, I'm spending $120+/month for a pilot light and an idle water heater. Electricity would offer a cheaper way to shut off the usage while gone, and to avoid the excessive gas fees. So, I'd consider a electric water heater, electric stove, and then I have to resolve the heating issue, but climate is mild where I live.
  - kristiandupontan hour ago
    I've used gas and induction stoves and they are almost comparable. I certainly wouldn't replace my heat pump and induction stove with gas.
  - ralph84an hour ago
    Don't worry, the excessive fee even when you're not using it aka "Base Services Charge" is coming to electricity as well.
  - gib4442 hours ago
    Ramping up idle fees is how they will force the holdouts onto electricity. $120/mo is insane. We pay about $15/mo but I can certainly see it going up
    throwup2382 hours ago
    At $120/mo might as well just get a big propane tank and have a tanker come refill it every six to twelve months. If they’re not using it to heat the house a 500 gallon tank lasts a long time. Bonus points because you can use it as a generator fuel source for the inevitable California power outage and possible earthquake disaster.
    zippyman55an hour ago
    On my issue, the temperature extremes are like 61-63 with an average of 62. LOL. I’m out of state 6 months a year. I could just shut off the gas. But the realization w the recent price increases really make me want to get rid of gas. I bet I save $500 a year.
- viraptor2 hours ago
  What do you mean by prefer? Is it more economical in your location? (Where?) Or...?
  - pastagean hour ago
    You get fast control with gas, I have cooked a lot with gas that instant enveloping heat is nice! New electric stoves are in my view superior, because they are less messy and have even better control.
    boxedan hour ago
    This article is about heating a house, not a pot.
    iknowstuffan hour ago
    Induction is more responsive than gas
- whateverboatan hour ago
  Why do you prefer gas?
- dyauspitran hour ago
  Why would you prefer natural gas? That stuff is expensive and cooking with it is pretty toxic. Would much rather have government subsidies like the Australians have for solar panels to get over the initial large investment needed for the heat pump.
toomuchtodo4 hours ago
Electricity prices have gone up due to datacenters as well as neglected grid infrastructure needing investment. Natural gas prices are going up because of LNG export infrastructure causing US consumers to compete against global LNG consumers for fuel to heat, as well as domestic electrical generation demand. Pick your poison.
Electricity prices might come down over time (renewables push down generation costs), natural gas prices won’t due to global demand for it.
- Figsan hour ago
  The price of electricity where I am in California is pretty cheap for the energy itself -- I pay about $20/mo for generation -- but the cost for electricity delivery is absolutely fucking insane. It costs me $90 for "delivery" of that $20 worth of electricity.
  - subscribed9 minutes ago
    If the press reports are accurate, your electricit infrastructure needs investments, so hopefully your money pays for that, and not someone's bonuses.
- melling3 hours ago
  What happened to cheap home solar with batteries?
  - abracadaniel3 hours ago
    Installation costs dominate the price. I check every few years, and while the hardware is down to about $5k for me, cost for installation remained $45k-$50k. Which is where it’s been for years. Makes diy very attractive though.
    plantainan hour ago
    That cost makes absolutely no sense. It takes one single day for a couple of people to install solar and batteries on a residential house.
    SR2Zan hour ago
    Baumol's Cost Disease at work, I guess.
    tapoxi2 hours ago
    How big is that system? Without incentives mine was half that for 8kw.
    Izikiel43an hour ago
    How hard is it to DIY?
    sfblahan hour ago
    The installation is straightforward, but the problem comes when you want to connect to the grid, because you have to get it approved by the utility. I'm sure getting a DYI installation approved by the utility is _possible_, but I wouldn't count on it. And, you may not know that you got disapproved until you've made the investment and are sort of screwed.
    What I did was install solar with batteries and inverters that have the ability to never export power to the utility. That way I didn't have to tell them or seek their approval.
  - onlyhumans3 hours ago
    You don’t really make that much electricity in the winter when you need the heat
    zeroping3 hours ago
    I picked a random spot in New York state. It looks like the solar generation in January is about 68% of July. As solar keeps getting cheaper, one option is to just install more solar.
    Don't get me wrong, there are still issues here, like snow or back-to-back-to-back cloudy days. But the rate of a price change for solar has been pretty dramatic.
- SilverElfin2 hours ago
  I haven’t paid attention to the change in my utility prices but my natural gas furnace is much cheaper for heating than my electric heat pump (I have both and my thermostat can pick). I believe our local electricity is almost fully from renewables already.