22 pointsby fortran772 hours ago5 comments
  • ddtaylor11 minutes ago
    The amount of scams happening is insane.

    The amount of people being wraponized into doing terrible things for others is insane.

    This is kind of a gun story but not really IMO.

    This is kind of like a story like the people who SWAT others and sometimes people die and sometimes they are held accountable.

    If someone is committed to presenting a false narrative for a long time they can manipulate people into doing things. That's not new, but it's certainly more accessible than ever and nobody is ready for it =(

    • cucumber37328425 minutes ago
      >The amount of people being weaponized into doing terrible things for others is insane.

      Really is mind boggling when you look at it as "fractional evil". Some hypothetical clerk may make 99 "could go either way" decisions one way or the other to little ill effect and 1/100 or maybe 1/1000 of the time their decisions costs someone tens of thousands of dollars for no good reason for it could have gone either way.

      How much of society's wealth is lost to such endeavors?

      One wonders how much "evil" exists only because there exists some amount of legitimate activity it can be mixed among to dilute it enough that nobody cares.

  • fortran77an hour ago
    It's very hard to make people understand how scammers use third parties. Mom 92 year-old mother mailed a check that was stolen in the mail, had the name changed, and was e-deposited.

    My brother (a lawyer!) wanted to sue the person whose name is on the check! I had to convince him not to bother; that the person's account that the check was deposited to was probably some other victom who was tricked into giving the bank login information away and his account was being unwittingly used to launder checks. The scammer was most likely overseas, but pays U.S. Post Office employees to steal envelopes that likely contain checks and send images (See https://www.justice.gov/usao-ct/pr/former-postal-employee-se... for example)

    The bank reversed the check but we had to get a notarized statement from my mom, and it was a hassle for a 92 year old.

    As far as this case goes, guns should only be used in self-defense when there's an immediate danger. Not punitively. This guy's life wasn't immediately being threatened and he deserves to have the book thrown at him.

    • mjevans37 minutes ago
      That's the mindset isn't it?

      *Punitive* use of force.

      -----

      Batman usually doesn't do too badly. Not only is it fiction but they're often against fiction level villains who are 'hardened' criminals in literal senses. Even then the violence tends to stop at the point where actual resistance stops. (They get tied up and delivered to the cops with maybe the black eye used in the initial apprehension.)

      -----

      Contrast this with what we see repeatedly on TV when poorly trained and poorly supervised law enforcement officers beat down or outright murder someone until they're not just not resisting anymore but are outright _unable_ to resist at all. Such excessive use of force in a professional context should also be a crime that is punished with congruent weight for the breach trust in a public official absent extenuating circumstances ('I had an emotional reaction' leading directly to deadly force should not be such a circumstance).

      I do recall a highly unfortunate case of someone from WA state who was on some combination of super drugs such that there didn't appear to be a reasonable application of force to result in a successful outcome. More and better tools might help. Maybe net launchers and methods of incapacitating someone at a bit of a distance for mutual safety?

    • cucumber373284210 minutes ago
      It's easy to place all the blame on the shooter but you're basically ignoring the other 999,999 in a million of these situations where bad stuff happens that don't escalate to this point by doing that.

      You can't just say that the people actually doing the thing (whatever that thing may be) are in the right because they are doing their jobs otherwise they become a black hole for infinite liability. You need to accept that the dead person was wrong to be there collecting that package at which point is becomes a question of who dispatched them (obviously not themselves in this case) on what grounds and under what circumstances, etc, etc and how did it lead to this failure.

      Think about this like an industrial ancient, not some heartstring grabbing rage bait. There will always be crazy old men. Sure, send him to prison or whatever but how can the chain of events that lead to this particular crazy old man killing someone under these circumstances be broken.

    • c2227 minutes ago
      > The scammer was most likely overseas, but pays U.S. Post Office employees to steal envelopes that likely contain checks and send images

      Jesus, it's almost like Kaczynski was onto something.

    • mindslight23 minutes ago
      > As far as this case goes, guns should only be used in self-defense when there's an immediate danger. Not punitively. This guy's life wasn't immediately being threatened and he deserves to have the book thrown at him.

      I had agreed when I read your comment before I read the article. But after reading the article it feels like this is missing the mark. We're bumping up against the equivalent of gang stalking / stochastic terrorism here - someone being harassed through digital channels and put in a mental state where they're fearing for their life in the physical world.

      A similar case of the phenomenon happened in NY a while back [0] with someone being killed for driving up to the wrong house at night, with the shooter presumably having been pumped full of general fearmongering by mass media. But the stark difference in that case it was the shooter's own media diet creating insular paranoia whereas here it was personally-targeted digital communications making the shooter feel threatened by the person ostensibly acting as an agent of those threatening him.

      This is a tragic situation for sure, but falling back to applying fundamentalist judgement to emergent behavior is a mistake.

      [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Kaylin_Gillis

      • fortran778 minutes ago
        I'm not withot any sympathy for the man. But if you chose to have a handgun you have to be 100% responsible for its use. I've owned guns when I've lived in rural areas, but I don't own one in Silicon Valley because I think the risk outweighs the benefit.
    • abirchan hour ago
      Checks in their current form need to be sunsetted. Either have a way of printing a check locally that have QR codes that include recipient's name and the sender's financial institution. No static routing and account numbers.
  • dayofthedaleks26 minutes ago
    Getting grifted is no excuse for shooting a stranger.
  • almostherean hour ago
    When is the stopping point to get it so that our phone system stops scammers. We should migrate off phones except for personal calls to each other (without a number - more of a 2-step authorization, you can call me, I can call you, negotiated via links over email...

    The phone number is dead, and the only last need for it is scammers and companies that want to record you but you not record them.

    • abirchan hour ago
      Minimally we should make spoofing harder and use some basic TLS type technology for calls.
    • g8oz23 minutes ago
      I thought STIR/SHAKEN was supposed to help. Whatever happened with that?
    • jackyingeran hour ago
      While we’re at it let’s get rid of wire transfers, and transactions by bank id / account number. Something more fool proof and transparent is far overdue.