54 pointsby bediger40006 hours ago12 comments
  • johanvts2 hours ago
    I like to point people to this page: https://digiconomist.net/bitcoin-energy-consumption/

    The breakdown in cost pr. Transaction really drives home what a ludicrous system it is. Bitcoin is a fantastic example of a great invention put to horrible use.

    • longitudinal93an hour ago
      Does that include transactions over the Lightning Network? If it doesn't then it's entirely meaningless.
  • izzydata3 hours ago
    Crypto should have stayed a silly tech demo that nerds used to trade with eachother for pizza.
    • aaghaan hour ago
      The how would Epstein-esque pedo's and bad state actors transact?
  • BadBadJellyBean3 hours ago
    Bitcoin and all other cryptocurrencies don't have a value assigned like normal currency. That means you almost never pay in bitcoin but in the bitcoin trading value of some currency. Instead of $5 you pay the current trading value of $5 in bitcoin. That is why it doesn't work as a currency and people are complaining about how they struggle with crypto volatility. No one really thinks about how many bitcoins they have just how much that is worth in "real" money.
    • johanvts2 hours ago
      The reason it doesn’t work as a currency is that the transaction costs are way way to high for that. A single transaction it is literally the price of 1-2 million visa transactions. This is by design, bitcoin will never be a competitive system for payment processing, without adding centralized “2nd layer” systems, and at that point why not just use a centralized system to begin with. It makes sense, a distributed system that does the same work millions of times cannot compete with a centralized system that does it once.
      • littlecranky6724 minutes ago
        You use outdated information. Modern Lightning, a layer 2 solution based on Bitcoin, does Bitcoin transactions in less than a second for less than any Visa fee. More to it, you can send transfers of less than 10satoshis (less than a cent) for fees in the millisatoshi range on an economical scale. Visa/Mastercard won't ever offer transfer fees of less than fixed 10cent per transaction, making micropayments impossible, and 1$ payments super expensive (more like 20cent fees on the dollar). That is one of the reasons why W3C web payments API was cancelled.
      • longitudinal93an hour ago
        You obviously haven't looked into the tranasaction economics of the Lightning Network. And things will only be mentally priced in USD until we switch to something else - quite possibly Bitcoin.
    • slicktux3 hours ago
      You can say the same thing about gold.
      • BadBadJellyBean3 hours ago
        At least gold is a physical good that has some use. I don't like gold speculations but bitcoins are literally just bits in a distributed database. But that is not even the problem. Most money is digital. The problem is the acceptance. It's primary use seems to be just trading it back and forth without trading it for goods.
        • slicktux3 hours ago
          They are bits that are cryptographically true and unique. It may not be tangible but now we are getting into philosophy of mathematics and whether math is real or not? I believe in math therefore I believe in cryptography.
          • BadBadJellyBean2 hours ago
            They are unique but they will cease to exist if everyone stops mining and doesn't keep a backup. They are just charges on a storage medium. You cannot use them for anything but to either keep in a wallet or move around. The transactions might be immutable but they are not persistent if not constantly tended to. Gold will stay gold for a long time without intervention.

            Most normal currencies are the same as bitcoin/crypto in that they are mostly digital but at least they have some mostly agreed upon value within their system. They don't need to be converted to another currency to find out which goods I can exchange for them.

            • bad_haircut72an hour ago
              Im not a crypto person I own zero cryptocurrency - yes, it will only ever be worth what someone thinks its worth. If it all gets turned off it goes to zero, but if the network is up and someone is willing to act as an exchange, it will have value - even if it drops back to 10c. If it has some value, it can be used to move that value around. If it can be used to move that value around, then people will think it has value. Thus I dont think bitcoin is going away, though its value relative to USD could go anywhere
        • bediger40002 hours ago
          You left out paying ransom, buying illegal guns and drugs, evading taxes, evading sanctions, settling inter-cartel debts, and bribing certain important world leaders
          • longitudinal93an hour ago
            The USD still rules (by several magnitudes) for the use cases you mention.
    • rusticpenn3 hours ago
      I dislike crypto as much as the next guy but, the normal currencies are not very different.
      • BadBadJellyBean2 hours ago
        Agreed apart from the fact that most currencies don't need to be converted to another currency first to determine which goods I can exchange for them. I agree that most currencies have no inherent value, only an agreed upon value.
        • littlecranky6711 minutes ago
          That is a chicken and egg problem. Look at argentina pre Miley, when the dollar/peso exchange rate was fixed and you couldn't freely exchange. People would still prefer the dollar over the peso, even though you couldn't legally agree on dollar prices in contracts such as rentals. So people were using the dollar to save in, and exchange for peso when they needed to exchange goods.

          My point being, you can have two competing currencies and exchange between them. In Argentinas case, the currency competition was healthy as politicians couldn't conceal their bad financial policies due to the hyper inflated exchange rate for pesos.

    • glitchc3 hours ago
      Bitcoin behaves exactly like a fiat currency would if driven completely by market forces. It's a good thought experiment in what the exchange rate would look like if the currency value is purely derived from demand and supply.
      • jjgreenan hour ago
        I've never understood why you'd need a currency specifically for Italian cars.
  • littlecranky6744 minutes ago
    Note that most of the 'Bitcoin anti-sustainability FUD' comes from a 2019 study published by cambridge university. The studies very heavily critisized, and in 2025 cambridge themselves revised their own models and admitted overestimation and model correction. The article is from 2022 and probably not up to date.

    I would also highlight that most knowledge and mental models around Bitcoin and the ecosystem seem to be stuck in 2021 - but after the AI hype took over, there have been slow improvements and developments that go mostly unnoticed, also here on HN. I.e. the lightning network is evolving too, making anonyous (to a certain extend), sub-second, off-chain transactions possible at way better efficiency regarding energy. With other developments like Bitcoin Taproot (Schnorr signatures), async and trampoline payments on the horizon fir lightning, we can expect even better anonymity and ease of use for lightning network within the next 1-2 years.

    Most comments, reasoning, papers etc. older than 3-4 years should be taken with a grain of salt, as it is a rapidly evolving and changing field. Probably the same applies to AI progress (especially the debatable energy consumption around AI).

  • tromp2 hours ago
    > If you don’t want people to rewrite history, you have to be wasting tons and tons of resources 24/7, 365. And that’s why Bitcoin burns as much power as a significant country.

    No, Bitcoin burns that much power because it has become the top speculative asset.

    But it only became that after maybe 8 years. Before that it actually functioned more like a currency (amongst other things, for buying illicit goods online).

    And what makes Bitcoin ideal for speculation is its capped emission where every 4 years the amount emitted is halved, encouraging FOMO.

    I agree most cryptocurrency should die in a fire, including all the ones made to enrich their creators, which is the vast majority of them.

    The few that do not allow their creators any financial gain, and those that strongly discourage speculation by having the same amount emitted every year, do not need to die.

  • smitty1ean hour ago
    So does this mean that AI will absorb all the cryptocurrency compute when "we" collectively realize that crypto was so much rectal sunshine?
  • gigatexal3 hours ago
    … they’re not wrong
  • badlucksbane3 hours ago
    [dead]
  • 3 hours ago
    undefined
  • helfan hour ago
    [dead]
  • profsummergig3 hours ago
    It will.

    Oh it will.