53 pointsby fortran776 hours ago18 comments
  • _fat_santa5 hours ago
    The biggest issue I see is Microsoft's entire mentality around AI adoption that focuses more on "getting the numbers up" then actually delivering a product people want to use.

    Most of the announcements I hear about Copilot, it's always how they've integrated it into some other piece of software or cut a deal with yet another vendor to add it to that vendors product offering. On the surface there's nothing wrong with doing that but that just seems to be the ONLY thing Microsoft is focused on.

    Worse yet, most of these integrations seem like a exercise in ticking boxes rather than actually thinking through how integrating Copilot into a product will actually improve user experience. A great example was someone mentioned that Copilot was now integrated into the terminal app but beyond an icon + a chat window, there is zero integration.

    Overall, MS just reeks of an organization that is cares more about numbers on a dashboard and pretty reports than they are on what users are actually experiencing.

    • WillAdams5 hours ago
      Or, scaling back trying to keep their datacenter bill manageable.

      Used to be one could upload an unlimited number of files (20 at a time) and process them directly at the initial window --- now one has to get into "Pages Mode", and once there, there's a limit on the number of files which can be uploaded in a given 24-hour period.

    • basch5 hours ago
      The products they are delivering remain somewhat poorly promoted.

      Designer is more than an LLM grafted to a text field. https://designer.microsoft.com/

      If you go to microsoft.com, which link at the top would you click to get to Designer?

    • llama0525 hours ago
      It feels like that's the entire MO of the Azure platform as well. Make a minimum viable product and then get adoption by selling at all costs, despite the products edges.
      • mook4 hours ago
        Didn't Nadella come from the Azure side? In that sense it'd make sense that what they were doing would spread to the rest of the company.
    • kryogen1c4 hours ago
      The wild thing is, the business prop is so clear - an llm built into your corporate data, with the same security, guard rails, grc auditing stack that protects the rest of your data. Why integrate and exfiltrate to an outside company?

      But copilot is fucking terrible. Sometimes I ask it powershell questions about microsoft products and it hallucinates answers. Get your shit together microsoft, why would I use this product for any reason if it doesnt work squarely inside your own stack

    • apercu5 hours ago
      > "The biggest issue I see is Microsoft's entire mentality around AI adoption that focuses more on "getting the numbers up" then actually delivering a product people want to use."

      That succinctly describes 90% of the economy right now if you just change a word and remove a couple:

      The biggest issue I see is the entire mentality that focuses more on "getting the numbers up" than actually delivering a product people want to use.

  • JohnMakin5 hours ago
    Microsoft's fumble here is pretty spectacular.

    Back in early 2023, the state of google search was abysmal (despite that their leaders insisted it wasn't, it had become nearly unusable for me and I don't think was that unfounded of an opinion). Microsoft rolled out a new version of bing, which became bing chat - search worked for me again for a very brief window of time.

    They could have pounced on this opportunity to take a big chunk out of google's search, because google didn't really catch up there til the AI overview was rolled out, and even that is notorious for having issues. Eventually chatGPT seems to have carved out some of this search space with web-search being native to the tools now.

    But microsoft was way ahead of everyone here for a brief period! Instead they just rolled everything into bloatware vaguely called "Copilot" and called it a day.

    • basch5 hours ago
      >it had become nearly unusable for me and I don't think was that unfounded of an opinion

      if ironic is the right word; the (google) search product itself still is. if not even worse.

      the 'new' ai mode routinely creates these silly categories that are not what i was looking for and my screen is filled with repetitive ai summaries of articles. it will ingest a source as fact, and then use that fact to create confirmation bias across other articles. it will even use words like "confirm" when it finds a source saying something, even if the source is junk or seo spam. it becomes somewhat impossible to escape the assumptions the model has made, and i have to resort to traditional web search to get diversity in my results.

      and while deep research works, its so overly verbose, with no easy way to tone down the wordiness.

      • JohnMakin5 hours ago
        I don't use it often, but at least now I can get an answer. I swear in early 2023 I would just get completely irrelevant, borderline spammy results to the point I gave up and felt helpless because there was no real alternative at that time for how I used google. It felt like the internet broke for a window of time and Bing (very briefly) brought me out of that hell. To this day I still can't believe they didnt capitalize on it.
    • cadamsdotcom44 minutes ago
      It cost them (as a guess) -1T of market cap..

      In other words they still got rewarded by the market despite all the missteps. I don’t agree with this reality but here we are.

    • PaulHoule5 hours ago
      Over and over Microsoft kills products with mis-marketing.

      One scenario is the product is good (OneNote) but they put three icons on the taskbar for it and spam the rest of Windows for ads for it that just make people scream "take it away!"

      Another scenario is that the product is bad (OneDrive) and they push you into having a traumatic experience (Microsoft Office uses it as the default save location and when it is down you can't save your work!) that makes sure you'll never use it again -- even though now OneDrive seems to be basically reliable.

      Today is it the dominant playbook for marketing of AI experiences. Mostly people are sick and tired of hearing about it, the master Unique Selling Point of 2026 is products that don't interrupt you when you are trying to get work done.

      • ifwinterco4 hours ago
        Recently had to download actual Adobe Reader for the first time in at least a decade and... christ. Requires most of an H100 in resources and you can't do what you actually want to do because of multiple AI related popups and attempt to get you to subscribe to some Adobe cloud nonsense.

        I knew it would be bad but I couldn't believe the state of it, just utter garbage

  • Eddy_Viscosity26 hours ago
    > push by Chief Executive Satya Nadella to transform Microsoft into an AI-first company

    Why can't we have a 'user-first' company. Maybe think about the user of your products a wee tiny bit. But no, it is not to be.

    • Etheryte5 hours ago
      Because most of Microsoft's revenue is not generated by end-users. It's large government agencies and big corporations where the end-user is ten steps detached from the actual decision to buy or not to buy something.
      • wolvoleo5 hours ago
        Yeah and even the engineers and architects have no influence on the purchase decision. If you ask us we wouldn't buy Microsoft.

        But they're really good at rubbing shoulders with the CIOs and convincing them their stuff isn't the mediocre trash it really is.

        • PaulHoule5 hours ago
          It's a story in Germany all the time that some open source zealots get a town government to switch to an off-brand office suite which is so bad that the government worker's union goes on strike to get Microsoft Office back.
      • PaulHoule2 hours ago
        How's that different from Red Hat Linux? I mean, Linux is all about corporate takeover by IBM, Google and the like. The mainstream of Linux GUI is Android for crying out loud and X and Wayland are rounding errors compared to that.
    • hangonhn5 hours ago
      From the article, "its productivity software is used by hundreds of millions of corporate users, a captive audience to whom it can easily promote new AI products."

      Their end users are what they ultimately sell. They are captive audiences. This is what monopolies/platforms do. It's never been part of MSFT's DNA to care that much about end user experience. Who they really cater to are the IT decision makers, etc. These people can then show some numbers about "AI adoption" and "productivity" gains on their Power Point slides presented to their bosses. MSFT's value is delivering that to them.

    • JohnMakin5 hours ago
      If you think about the shareholders as their users, being AI-first is being user-first, because it makes number go up.
    • tonyedgecombe5 hours ago
      I thought it was cloud first, or was it mobile first, I don't remember.
      • InfamousRece4 hours ago
        I believe they skipped blockchain first so at least there is that.
    • fsflover4 hours ago
      This only works in a competitive market, not for monopolistic walled gardens like Microsoft.
    • copilot_king5 hours ago
      [dead]
  • pjmlp5 hours ago
    It is remarkable how during the last 25 years (approximately), Microsoft has been improving their ability to deliver first (or be among the first), followed by messing up the whole process so that late comers end up taking the crown jewels.

    PDAs, mobile phones, tablets, tablets with detachable keyboards, managed OS userspace, HoloLens, the XBox mess, and now AI.

    There certainly other examples that I failed to address.

    This is what happens when divisions fight among themselves for OKRs and whatever other goals.

    • exceptione5 hours ago
      And their philosophy of mediocre = good enough. (Not everything ofc, MS is a continent. .net core, language design etc is top-notch.)
      • pjmlp5 hours ago
        Which certainly has to do with it being initially developed at Microsoft Research Cambridge, and not plain Microsoft.

        https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40472977

        https://web.archive.org/web/20190111203733/https://blogs.msd...

        • exceptione4 hours ago
          Ah, thanks. That must be the link with Simon Peyton Jones as well. Seems to be another case of a marketing machine running away with foundational research coming from Europe.*

          * no hard feelings

        • brg5 hours ago
          I would argue that the success has more to do with DevDiv being the strongest technical organization at MS than its provenance.
          • pjmlp4 hours ago
            Until they messed up the whole UWP / WinRT developer experience in Visual Studio.

            Also VS 2026 was released with a hard milestone, thus while there is a new settings experience, many options show a dialog from VS 2022, because the new UI is still not implemented for the new experience.

            Note that most organisations have to pay for Visual Studio licenses, and get rewarded with such quality.

            Slop has also arrived into DevDiv.

            • PaulHoule2 hours ago
              I think after the failure of Metro, I think Microsoft gave up on native apps entirely and now the story is web or Electron.
              • pjmlpan hour ago
                It appears the problem is more deep than that.

                From what I could infer from some community talks, podcasts and so, I would assert that nowadays they have the problem new hires have been educated in UNIX like OSes and Web.

                Thus Windows team gets lots of folks that never coded anything for Windows, and management instead of having proper trainings in place, just goes with Webview2 and Electron all over the place.

                I might be wrong, this is more my perception than anything else.

                • h3lp18 minutes ago
                  > nowadays they have the problem new hires have been educated in UNIX like OSes and Web.

                  So, in other words, the kids grow up learning and using Linux, right?

  • 1vuio0pswjnm7an hour ago
    1.htm contains article text, including hyperlinks, no Javascript, no CSS, only 2 tags used: 1. <p> and 2. <a> with attribute href

       x=AA1VBKdf
       { echo "<meta charset=utf-8>";
       (printf 'GET /content/view/v2/Detail/en-in/'$x' HTTP/1.0\r\n'
       printf 'Host: assets.msn.com\r\n\r\n') \
       |busybox ssl_client assets.msn.com \
       |grep -o "<p>.*</p>"|tr -d '\134'; } > 1.htm
    
       firefox ./1.htm
  • ryandvm6 hours ago
    Don't worry, after a decade or two of having Windows reinstall and re-enable it every couple weeks against their users' wishes I'm sure they'll get the market penetration they're looking for...
    • add-sub-mul-div5 hours ago
      This is repeated endlessly by non-Windows fans I assume, because I disabled AI and other annoyances in Windows long ago and they haven't come back. I even used to worry about updating Windows because I saw this warning so many times, but then I did and it just never came to pass.
      • estimator72925 hours ago
        Microsoft has a long and well documented history of resetting user preferences.

        Multiple times I've disabled the cortana taskbar search widget, only to have a windows update turn it back on and proudly gives me a popup telling me they noticed it was disabled and turned it back on for me.

        Microsoft will forcibly re-enable AI features eventually. Again, this is an established pattern for them.

  • PaulHoule5 hours ago
    I think the plain ordinary chatbot behind the Copilot on the desktop is fine, it seems like a skin around ChatGPT-5 in the "Smart" mode and in the "Search" mode it compares to Google's AI mode.

    When it comes to anything multimodal it is an absolute disaster. Show it a photo of a plant for a plant id? Forget about it, just take a picture of the screen on your phone with Google Lens. If you ask it to draw something or make a Microsoft Word document you'll regret it.

    For advice about how to do things on the command line or how bootstrap works or how to get out of a pickle you got yourself in Git it is great. It writes little scripts as well as anybody but you can't trust it to get string escaping right for filenames in bash scripts which is one reason I'd want help. For real coding I use Junie because I'm a Jetbrains enthusiast but other people seem to swear by Claude Code.

    I do dread the day though when Microsoft decides to kill Copilot because I will miss it.

  • AJRF5 hours ago
    They really dropped the ball on this - they are down ~12% for the year.

    When they first started, they seemed to be firing on all cylinders and looked like they were going to be big winners, but the strategy has just been a slow motion car crash.

    I wonder if Satya is the right person for Microsoft.

    • pjmlp3 hours ago
      It was a fresh air after Balmer and he helped opening the company to open source, naturally not without their own intentions, however Satya has been a disaster for the consumer branding, anything related to Windows.
  • cyrusradfar6 hours ago
    The 3.3% paid conversion is not great.

    Believe it or not, the Recon Analytics trend is actually worse primary usage among Copilot subscribers dropped from 18.8% to 11.5% since July while Gemini climbed past it.

    People who paid are leaving.

    That's a churn problem.

    The tell is buried in the article: workers who have access to Copilot, ChatGPT, and Gemini side by side choose ChatGPT and Gemini at higher rates.

    Some companies are using 10% of their paid seats. Microsoft's CMO of AI says growth is "unlike anything we've seen before" but won't share the numbers.

    That's the "we're thrilled with preorders" of AI.

    This is the Ballmer story all over again.

      - Massive distribution advantage
      - Captive enterprise base
    
    Somehow still losing to the thing people actually want to use.

    Windows Phone had carrier deals too.

    The problem is the same: you can't mandate delight.

    This part is laughable, can't believe it leaked:

      > "About a year ago, Nadella sent a frustrated email to Rajesh Jha, 
      > executive vice president of experiences and devices, detailing an incident in which 
      > Nadella had asked the enterprise version of Copilot on the Edge browser 
      > to help with a public webpage he was on, 
      > but it couldn't fulfill his prompt"
    
    Meanwhile three different orgs inside Microsoft all own something called "Copilot" and none of them talk to each other.

    Meanwhile, Anthropic ships Cowork after 10 days and it just explodes with the market.

    • code_for_monkey6 hours ago
      > Meanwhile three different orgs inside Microsoft all own something called "Copilot" and none of them talk to each other.

      I audibly winced

      • wolvoleo5 hours ago
        There are in fact almost 30 products with Copilot in the name now. Though they've seem to have cut a few recently like the sales version
    • mook3 hours ago
      > unlike anything we've seen before

      They probably haven't seen (to pull a number out of a hat) negative three billion percent growth before either…

    • 5 hours ago
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  • mjr005 hours ago
    Microsoft's focus was making it so that AI could allow unskilled workers to replace skilled workers. The hope was that everyone but sales/management could be offshored to SEA/India/etc and AI would somehow make up for the skill differential.

    The successful AI companies are making it so that skilled workers can use AI as a tool to be more productive and efficient.

  • zwaps5 hours ago
    The reality is that Copilot’s laughable performance is almost entirely unrelated to AI models not being good at X.

    Every single thing Copilot does has been solved much better by other products.

    However, Copilot fails in extremely ridiculous ways, at very basic tasks which such a product absolutely must nail.

    Copilot should not have been released. A large majority of people involved have failed. People like managers, product managers etc should probably be fired. Technical leads equally so.

    For everyone who has been building similar products it is immediately obvious that Copilot is sloppy, unfocused and unprofessionally executed.

    People hate it, and for hood reason.

    It just boggles the mind how they would go and release it, or that it even exists in its current form.

    Those devs and managers rake in hundreds of thousands of dollars each, producing garbage that has been done better by dozens or hundreds of other teams

    Bah

  • kotaKat5 hours ago
    Maybe Microsoft needs to fix the cart before they put the jet engines on top of it and try to kill the horses off.

    Go back to fixing what’s wrong with Windows, then worry about the AI software running on top of it and where you can add a value proposition, because right now the Windows value proposition is continuing to go right down the shitter as everyone flees Windows 11.

    • PaulHoule5 hours ago
      Can't say Win 11 is really that bad.

      Contrast that to the Linux desktop which "just doesn't work" and my M4 Mac Mini that amazed me with how fast it was when I bought it and a year later it is beachball... beachball... beachball... reboot. beachball... beachball... beachball... Doesn't help that they vandalized the UI by adding meaningless transparency effects which don't actually look cool but rather look like they added anti-antialiasing to the edges of everything for now reason.

      • exceptione2 hours ago

          > which "just doesn't work"
        
        Some are more tech savy than others here, but I guess almost anyone can do the following trick successfully:

          step 1. visit https://endeavouros.com/
          step 2. download iso
          step 3. flash iso on medium
          step 4. boot medium, installation window shows
          step 5. you choose KDE, yes: KDE. Do more mouse clicks.
          step 6. system tells you it's done, and offers you to reboot.
        
        Done.
      • 3 hours ago
        undefined
    • theappsecguy5 hours ago
      According to the CEO peddling AI, software engineers are about to be replaced by AI, how come AI hasn't fixed all of their atrocious software hmmm..
  • dang4 hours ago
    Is there a readable link to this article? The workarounds posted in this thread so far seem all to have stopped working.
    • hvb22 hours ago
      • dang15 minutes ago
        Ok, let's put that in the toptext. Thanks!
    • ChrisArchitect3 minutes ago
      For whatever reason that title has reverted to the original

      Microsoft's Pivotal AI Product Is Running into Big Problems

      ...maybe to not imply copilot is having any kind of technical problems

    • eddyg3 hours ago
      If you have Apple News, you can open the article in Safari and then "Share" it to the News app.
  • Drunkfoowl5 hours ago
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  • copilot_king5 hours ago
    [dead]
  • th0ma55 hours ago
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