79 pointsby csmantle9 hours ago8 comments
  • __turbobrew__an hour ago
    I have been trying to upstream patches to kubernetes and etcd for about a year and ended up giving up. It is impossible to get someone from the project to review my PRs, and since I cannot get PRs under my belt I can not become a maintainer either.

    My suspicion is that you get ghosted if you don’t have a @google or @redhat email address and really the only way to become a contributor is to be buddies with someone who works on the project already.

    I have considered going to one of the CNCF committee meetings and being like, hey you guys are not accepting new contributions which goes against your mandate. But in the end I just maintain local patches that don’t get upstreamed which is easier.

    • direwolf2027 minutes ago
      The CNCF may or may not take it seriously. They definitely won't if they don't know.
  • rendaw3 hours ago
    Regardless of the contents,

    > For each of my emails, I got a reply, saying that they "sincerely apologize" and "@Dalibor Topic Can you please review...", with no actual progress being made.

    then

    > Sorry to hear this. .... @Dalibor Topic <dalibor.topic at oracle.com>, can we get this prioritized?

    This is pretty morbidly funny.

    • softwaredoug2 hours ago
      Anyone who has been a freelancer negotiating a contract with a big company feels this sort of thing in their bones.
  • Freak_NL31 minutes ago
    I know it is a deeply culturally ingrained idiom for Chinese to use in English, but the phrase "I do live in Chinese Mainland" sincerely irks me from someone who is attempting to claim the high road of having no affiliations with any sanctioned entities.

    The phrase "Chinese Mainland" when used in English comes loaded with the suggestion that Taiwan is rightfully part of China — it is an unavoidable implication. If you believe that China should annex Taiwan by any effective means, by all means, use that term. But if you want to steer clear of imperialist politics — or just leave that out of your communications — just use "China" in English for the big country run by Xi Jinping.

    And no, saying "I do live in Chinese Mainland" is not just a way of saying "Oh, I don't live on Macau or in Hong Kong".

    • arglebarnacle11 minutes ago
      Interesting, when I've come across this before I have always interpreted it as "not from Hong Kong", especially in a context like this where it's raised in the context of engaging with a western counterpart's potential suspicion.

      It's been my experience that westerners (I am a westerner) do have different assumptions about "mainland" Chinese people than people from Hong Kong who are assumed to be more cosmopolitan, "westernized", or even "politically neutral" from a western liberal capitalist perspective, so it seems reasonable to point it out in this context.

  • beartan hour ago
    I know Java has a complicated history of ownership, but I'm not sure I understand why Oracle is able to block contributions to OpenJDK. I thought the point of OpenJDK was to be separate from Oracle. I'm not a Java developer, just curious how this works.
    • oliwarneran hour ago
      It's still their project and the Oracle Contributor Agreement means they get to asset joint ownership of your contributions.

      That's broadly the point of CLAs, but for a beefy project like OpenJDK with so much shared code baked deep into enterprise deployment, Oracle will feel it's critical they can pull freely given code into the depths of their closed Java builds.

      It's their project. It does absolutely block contributions (employers are unhappy sacrificing their engineering output to Oracle). If you don't like it, fork it.

    • gf00016 minutes ago
      Where does oracle block contributions?

      This was more of an unfortunate lack of attention/prioritization.

      Don't assume malice where a simpler explanation exists.

  • voakbasda3 hours ago
    When I want to contribute to an open source project, I throw together some trivial but useful patches and see how the project responds.

    Many projects behave this way, particularly those with corporate overlords. At best, it will take weeks to get a simple patch reviewed. By then, I have moved on, at least with my intention to send anything upstream. I commend the author for giving them a whole year, but I have found that is best a recipe for disappointment.

    Maintainers: how you react to patches and PRs significantly influence whether or not you get skilled contributors. When I was maintaining such projects, I always tried to reply within 24 hours to new contributors.

    It would be interesting to see how quickly the retention rate drops off as the time to review/accept patches goes up. I imagine it looks like an exponential drop off.

    • esafakan hour ago
      Absolutely. I look at the commit and PR history. Are the maintainers responsive and welcoming?
  • freedomben3 hours ago
    All of the https://github.com/AOSC-Tracking/jdk/ links 404 for me, so it's difficult to get a sense of what was being done. Going off of the "loongson fork" links though they look rather trivial. Not saying they should be ignored, but I do think trivial PRs to large critical open source projects like JDK can often end up taking more time away from contributing engineers doing reviews and testing than they are worth.

    I know first-hand the frustration of having PRs ignored and it can be quite demoralizing, so I do feel for the author. It sounds like the author is getting to a place of peace with it, and my advice from having been down that path before is to do exactly that, and find something else interesting to hack on.

    • Cpoll2 hours ago
      But that's not what's happening here, right? They're blocked on having their 'Oracle Contributer Agreement' approved; they're not even at the stage where their PRs are eligible for being ignored.
    • aeurielesn2 hours ago
      I disagree. Trivial PRs are perfect for first contributions, especially to get through the myriad of bots requesting you to sign/review stuff.

      Having said that, I would never contribute to a project with a first contributor experience like this one.

      • zbentley2 hours ago
        I don’t think you and GP disagree. Trivial PRs can be

        > perfect for first contributions, especially to get through the myriad of bots requesting you to sign/review stuff

        At the same time as they

        > can often end up taking more time away from contributing engineers doing reviews and testing than they are worth

      • plagiarist39 minutes ago
        I agree but I would also never contribute to a project with a CLA in the first place.
  • pjm3312 hours ago
    I have this theory that with LLMs getting better at writing code our current open source model (relatively few large projects that everyone contributes to, relatively rare to maintain your own fork) will invert and it will be easier and more common for people to have personalized forks and a lot of the problems around managing large open source projects will just become irrelevant
    • majormajoran hour ago
      Or a ton of "personalized agents" will start bugging upstream to complain about suspected issues with all those forks all the time...
  • dwroberts4 hours ago
    The PRs they link mostly seem like noise? “Remove the d prefix from this number because the C++ standard doesn’t require it”. Yeah great.
    • jstanley3 hours ago
      That's a pretty unfair characterisation of the commit in question: https://github.com/loongson/jdk/pull/125/commits/ee300a6ce73...

      By my reading, it's not merely that the standard doesn't require the "d" suffix, it's that the standard doesn't allow the "d" suffix, and the code won't compile on anything but gcc.

      • freedomben3 hours ago
        Agreed, although things I immediately think of are:

        1. Is "anything but gcc" actually supported by the project? Do they have a goal of supporting other compilers or possibly an explicit decision not to support other compilers?

        2. If they do support other compilers, how did the "d" suffix make it in the first place? That's something I would expect the dev or CI to catch pretty quickly.

        3. Does gcc behave any differently with the "d" suffix not there? (I would think a core dev would know that off the top of their head, so it's possible they looked at it and decided it wasn't worth it. One would hope they'd comment on the PR though if they did that). If it does, this could introduce a really hard-to-track-down bug.

        I'm not defending Oracle here (in fact I hate Oracle and think they are a scourge on humanity) but trying to approach this with an objective look.

        • dundarious2 hours ago
          Given they have one to fix usage of llvm-config, I assume clang is also supported or being worked on.
          • stuaxo37 minutes ago
            That sort of patch is clearly fixing something that blocked him, and probably blocked many others who didn't get as far as trying to fix it.

            A project should take on useful small patches, thats how you onboard contributors.

            • gf00011 minutes ago
              That again assumes a project is looking to onboard contributors.

              I absolutely get that it was an unfortunate interaction from the email writer's perspective, and it's really unfortunate.

              But there are a lot of concerns/bureaucracy, etc in case of large projects like this. It may just never got to the person responsible, because it is a cross-cutting concern (so no clear way to assign it to someone) with a low priority.

      • dwroberts3 hours ago
        If all of these things are about making it build under clang though they need to better explain it or maybe group these changes together though.

        My initial comment was maybe unfair but I can completely sympathise with the maintainers etc. that separately these PRs look like random small edits (e.g. from a linter) with no specific goal

        • imcritic3 hours ago
          Shouldn't small trivial changes be easier to review (and thus maybe even have higher prio)?
          • gf0007 minutes ago
            If there is a single maintainer of the project, sure.

            If it's such a massively huge project like OpenJDK, then not really.

            You might also check how non-trivial it is to get a change into the Linux kernel.

    • perryprog3 hours ago
      Even if the changes aren't "meaningful" (which it seems like they are), they still have an impact in how it makes the contributor more comfortable with working on the project. No new contributor is going to start with making massive patches without starting out with some smaller things to get a feel for working with the project.
      • Twirrim3 hours ago
        Agreed, these seem like ideal patches to me for a first contribution. Solves a specific problem, doesn't require a lot of effort on maintainers side to review, and should give them a straightforward path to familiarise themselves with the process.
    • thethirdone3 hours ago
      The d suffix makes it not compile under clang. The PRs seem like mostly small changes that are clear improvements.
    • ablob3 hours ago
      The correct quote is: "Remove invalid 'd' suffix for double literals".