105 pointsby croes3 hours ago21 comments
  • kuritoan hour ago
    What a waste of resources. Imagine employing some of the most brilliant engineers on the planet and allocating man-hours towards artificially worsening the experience for your userbase in order to blackmail them into paying you, and giving them back what they had in the first place.

    At least this is a loosing game for Google, since this is client side behaviour.

    • slvng2 minutes ago
      The best engineer I've ever known ended up working for years on optimizing ad space auction time by micro seconds.
    • jy1489839 minutes ago
      While I'm not pro YouTube, I think it's fine for companies to decide how to monetise their product, including things which were originally free. If you don't like free services, stop using them
      • rockskon12 minutes ago
        If a company wants to offer its service as a loss-leader to outlast its competitors who offered their services at a cost its users were willing to pay, then that company has no room to complain if people don't want to pay the last-game-in-town's jacked-up rates!

        There is no moral high-ground for YouTube to take here.

      • reddalo35 minutes ago
        >If you don't like free services, stop using them

        Problem is, there's no real alternative for YouTube. It's a monopoly.

        • sneak31 minutes ago
          That’s not remotely true.
          • reddalo26 minutes ago
            Okay, so list which websites I can use to watch all kinds of content that I can find on YouTube.

            Vimeo? It's basically dead. DailyMotion? It could've been an alternative, but they've recently deleted most old videos. Peertube? Nice idea in theory, but lack of content.

            • lombasihir20 minutes ago
              is use yewtu.be from time to time on web, and pipepipex on android.
      • tjpnz33 minutes ago
        Is this product or hampering the way the web works with video? Go to any other site with a <video> tag and you won't face similar issues.
    • Ampersanderan hour ago
      Aren't they going to win in the long run with remote attestation?
    • shevy-java13 minutes ago
      > Imagine employing some of the most brilliant engineers on the planet

      I am not sure those who work at Google are all brilliant - but it should also not matter, because they support Evil here. They should be ashamed for working for Evil. Guess if the money is right ...

    • keepamovin37 minutes ago
      Maybe ads-as-business-model is like political ideology - it is not a human universal but must adapt to the place: for instance collectivism over individualism in East Asia, theocratic conservatism over democracy in Afghanistan -- maybe ads as business model is despicable to some regions, but accepted in others? Albania it's apparently illegal for YouTube to serve ads?
    • latexr33 minutes ago
      > Imagine employing some of the most brilliant engineers on the planet

      Maybe we should stop with that tired fallacious rhetoric? Just because you work at a massive company doesn’t make you “brilliant”.

    • AlienRobot5 minutes ago
      Agreed. I was leaving the mall with lots of great goods I had found, but then the guard stopped me and told me I was stealing! Imagine paying that guy a salary just to blackmail me into paying them! This is an outrage.
    • testfrequency7 minutes ago
      Apple has entered the chat
    • nikanjan hour ago
      *Allocating man-hours towards making sure that users actually pay for the service they're using, either via youtube subscription or ads
      • anonymous90821331 minutes ago
        Google is the richest company literally on the entire planet, you really don't need to go to bat for monopolistic practices.
      • saagarjha43 minutes ago
        Monetizing a basic OS feature is not a good look.
      • BrenBarn41 minutes ago
        If they wanted users to pay for the service they're using they should never have made YouTube free in the first place.
        • reddalo34 minutes ago
          They made it free just like any other startup makes a free tier to obtain market share.
          • learingsci22 minutes ago
            Drug dealers invented this business model, they would give heroin to young children for free and then once hooked hike the prices or force them to turn tricks to pay for their habit. It’s effective but not very admirable to say the least.
      • realusername41 minutes ago
        Maybe if the Youtube subscription wasn't 10x what they earn from a single user with ads, that would be more believable option.
    • tjpnz40 minutes ago
      No worse than what a lot of their other "brilliant" minds are working on - ads.
      • throwaway1324488 minutes ago
        Whataboutism is just fascinating. How myopic must your world view be that when you see one bad thing, you immediately try to justify it by pointing out another bad thing?
    • causalscience24 minutes ago
      [dead]
  • politelemon2 hours ago
    Newpipe remains one of the best solutions for background playback. They do tend to move pretty quickly to patch "fixes" that YouTube throw in now and again. It's also useful for video backups if you need to preserve them for any reason.
    • Erenay09an hour ago
      I am using Tubular, a NewPipe fork that has built-in SponsorBlock and ReturnYouTubeDislike features.
    • mhitzaan hour ago
      I'm a NewPipe user as well, unfortunately the experience is getting worse there too. Might be because I also use a VPN, but after every couple of videos I have to cooldown my usage until the IP block is reset.

      This started happening for me a few weeks ago.

    • GvS23 minutes ago
    • happymellonan hour ago
      Why install additional software? Firefox hasn't broken for me only the Chrome clones.
      • Pooge41 minutes ago
        Because modern websites are unusable on mobile; it's a feature and not a bug.
    • scnsan hour ago
      > It's also useful for video backups if you need to preserve them for any reason.

      You can download only the soundpart as mp4 or opus too.

    • keepamovin29 minutes ago
      I released a browserbox variant many years ago that could ensure background playback on YouTube. Despite multiple posts here and on PH, it never gained any traction. It seemed people were simply not interested in overcoming no background playback for free on every platform (including mobile).

      Same time, one can appreciate the YouTube business: once you give something away for free, people absolutely loose their fucking minds if you make it paid. Once you set the bar to zero for payment, people will murder in the streets and despise you if you reasonably charge for what could have been a paid product all along. So there's a psychological blocker to switching on payment that people are ready to go to war for. It's the same blocker that cripples "open source" sustainability. People quickly develop an entitlement-callous, and feel cheated if you require payment instead of just continuing to surrender value to them.

      It reminds of how a group of primates will kill a handler who gives cake to one, but not the group. This "free / paid" tension triggers some kind of deep-rooted human fairness wiring that is really tricky to extinguish once activated. That's why you should never open source your code and never give stuff away for free, if you plan to posslby make money from it somehow or make it paid in future. Because if you ever withhold the siphon of value related to ads or other 'you as a product' models, they will launch a jihad against you.

      I think it's interesting how the human fairness reflex, often correct, breaks down in the context of "provider / consumer" dynamics. Even if the provider is not some "evil mega corp" but simply a solo software creator, people will still feel you are attempting to rob them of all dignity and debase their honor if you require payment for what was previously gratis.

      Oh well. Live and learn, YouTube.

      • learingsci15 minutes ago
        It’s called “opportunity cost.”

        If you marry somebody and they suddenly become a totally different person and try to extort you a common reaction is to feel deceived and unhappy. They have cheated you in a sense of the opportunity cost of being able to marry someone else.

        That people might not understand that tells you something about them.

    • Poogean hour ago
      yt-dlp is great if on desktop.
      • deafpolygonan hour ago
        I do this, then send it to VLC on mobile.
  • sxde17 minutes ago
    Revanced allows you to patch the official Android YouTube apk to enable this feature alongside many others, including a block, Sponsorblock, and dislikes.

    https://github.com/revanced/revanced-manager

    Rossmann's Grayjay app offers the same functionality in a separate standalone client. It has a paid pro mode, but is free software. I use this on devices that I haven't signed in with Google.

    https://grayjay.app/

    • jwrallie5 minutes ago
      The real reason why sideloading is soon to be blocked by Google, along with NewPipe.
  • barnabeean hour ago
    Background playback is a feature of the browser and operating system, not YouTube.

    Consumer laws should prevent Google doing this. We need an anti-DMCA to make circumvention, bypassing, or disabling of user’s device or OS features illegal.

    • lmzan hour ago
      Serving requests is a feature of Youtube and if they don't want to serve your client... well you didn't pay for it anyway.
      • VadimPRan hour ago
        They corned the market, drove everyone out of it, and are now rent-seeking. Can't say you have much of a choice between youtube and any other video provider that has the same content on it.
        • reddalo30 minutes ago
          >They corned the market, drove everyone out of it, and are now rent-seeking.

          It's almost dumping [1]: they gave a service away for free (even if they were losing a lot of money) just to make it unfeasible for any other company to start a competing service.

          Vimeo could have been a competitor, but then they pivoted to a professional market and now that Bending Spoons bought them [2], I'm not sure they will even have a future.

          [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dumping_(pricing_policy) [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45197302

      • esperentan hour ago
        The equivalent here is if Sony owned the most watched TV network (by far) and decided that it would work fully on Sony Bravia tvs. People with LG or Samsung TV's could only watch a degraded version.
      • an hour ago
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  • redmlan hour ago
    i had that happen on firefox mobile months ago and installed video background play fix which all it does is stop sending the js hooks for when tab/window focus is lost. it was something clearly targeted to mobile browsers for people like me who don't bother with official apps anymore as they're riddled with antipatterns and ads. you can just youtube to the homepage like it's an app anyway.
    • Imustaskforhelpan hour ago
      +N for video background play fix extension. Highly recommended on firefox.

      This and ubo on android really make firefox a really great (the best imo) browser on android.

  • xnxan hour ago
    This will be a positive if browsers (extensions?) allow the ability to spoof visibility by site. Most websites have no business knowing if they're in the foreground or background.
    • madeofpalk28 minutes ago
      Nice - you’ve just increased significantly power consumption of your browser!

      Browsers will “slow down” various aspects of pages when they’re not visible, like animations or timers, to save on battery usage on laptops or phones.

      Even if your remove explicit APIs for backgrounding, pages can still use heuristics to detect anyway.

      • chii23 minutes ago
        The user should be making the choice - not the website. The website could be informed about being backgrounded, if the user chooses to. But the user should have the priority in the decision chain - their choice overrides any that the website makes.

        That is what it means to have control over your own computing.

    • touweran hour ago
      That's actually quite easy. onBlur, etc
      • reddalo28 minutes ago
        Just to be precise, onBlur is a JavaScript event for an item that loses its focus, visibilitychange is what you actually need to detect tab changing.
  • keyle2 hours ago
    If this may help you, some browser allow youtube videos in PIP (e.g. Orion). That keeps the video going, you can scale it down in a corner.

    Otherwise the other option is to drag the tab out to a window of its own, they can't know it's not visible, at least that works for Twitch ads.

  • doe88an hour ago
    There must be reaching a state where there must have more code for blocking all the stuffs there are trying to block than displaying videos. No wonder its UI feels bloated.
  • jsilence2 hours ago
    This is so annoying.

    Along the same line is that you can watch any hour long video without interruptions unless it is music where you will get interrupted every couple of minutes with "are you there?" dialogues.

  • speedylightan hour ago
    On iOS you can get free background play with Youtube App by putting the video in picture-in-picture -> locking the screen, -> going to control center and hitting the play button. Don’t let Google know!
    • jwrallie3 minutes ago
      For me just pressing the power button twice and play on the lock screen quickly does it.
  • zarzavat21 minutes ago
    I'm confused. Wouldn't Brave just stop telling YouTube if it's in the background or not?
  • shevy-java14 minutes ago
    It should be trivial to work around; for instance, yt-dlp or so (https://github.com/yt-dlp/yt-dlp) and I think you can as-is stream e. g. via mpv or something, probably to the browser too. Some python script for an ad-hoc localhost webserver I'd think.

    What is much more worrying is how aggressively Google tries to abuse its de-facto monopoly. I have said it before, I will say it again: Google abusing everyone else is a bad situation. We need to make Google smaller again.

  • baxtran hour ago
    If you’re on iOS, put the video on full screen and then put Safari in the background. Next, press play in the Control Center. This should now allow the audio to play in the background.
  • p4bl0an hour ago
    What a shame. What's the point even? I'm not going subscribe to YouTube premium anyway, and even less install and use the YouTube app. What happens with this move is just that I will just use YouTube less. I believe that's the case for most people who chose to use YouTube in a browser precisely for background playback.

    As an example: knowing that I won't be able to keep the sound playing for the 5 minutes in between two buses when I need to walk and pay attention, I'll probably just launch a podcast from the beginning of my hour of transportation so that I'm not interrupted. For these five minutes, they loose me for almost an hour.

    • renewiltord31 minutes ago
      Perhaps that's what they desire. Serving YouTube video has marginal cost and you provide marginal zero value. Losing you as a customer is probably desired.
      • p4bl011 minutes ago
        That's a very narrow view. YouTube is the only reason I have a Google account. Because of it I use some of their other products. And because I'm connected to my YouTube/Google account, they can track my behavior across products and across devices. My usage profile has value if only because it can be correlated to others (who don't bock ads), and because I share link to their platform on social media and messaging app. That's still true even if I'm able from time to time to continue listening to a YouTube video while my phone is in my pocket. But I will share less link and leave them a lot less usage data if they push me away from their products.
        • renewiltord6 minutes ago
          Yeah and people have been trying to pay artists in exposure for eons now. I’m sure the artists are really feeling bad about the decision now.
    • nikanj44 minutes ago
      The point is that youtube is an ad-funded service, and if you're not watching the ads, Google is losing money on you.
      • wazoox34 minutes ago
        Bwaaa an evil monopolistic empire won't get our money, that's so sad really. They're racking up tens of billions of money every quarter, we don't. I carefully do my best not to give any money to Microsoft, Google and the likes. They must be dismantled anyway.
        • nikanj6 minutes ago
          If they are an evil monopolistic empire, why are you upset you can’t use their services? It’s not like watching shorts is a matter of life/death.
  • sfdlkj3jk342aan hour ago
    Still working on IronFox (Firefox fork) on Android with the Video Background Fix extension.
  • ed_mercer28 minutes ago
    Will someone _please_ make a decent linux phone already so we can stop this nonsense.
    • sevenzero26 minutes ago
      You're free to do so, probably your million dollar idea right there.
  • idrissbellil2 hours ago
    still works for me
    • Banditoz2 hours ago
      Not for long, probably.

      I've noticed YouTube likes to A/B test a lot. If you use it signed out you pretty much get a new set of minor changes each time.

  • poulpy1232 hours ago
    Fuck google
  • gethly2 hours ago
    I've noticed yesterday before and after update. So annoying. I so fucking hate Google and what they've become.
  • deafpolygonan hour ago
    This is precisely why I don’t use YT anymore. On top of these scummy behaviour on Alphabets part… the content has taken a deep dive because more and more people are creating it for the “algorithm” and less for the content.
  • hsbauauvhabzban hour ago
    Imagine trying to take a basic browser function we’ve all taken for granted for decades and attempt to paywall it as ‘Background playback is a feature intended to be exclusive for YouTube Premium members.’

    Get fucked. I vote we remove API access to any focus state information.

    Fuck you google.

    • laserlightan hour ago
      It upsets me to see YouTube Premium apologists despite all the hostile moves by YouTube. YouTube Premium is an extortion scheme. When there are enough paying customers, YouTube Premium will begin showing ads to them. They won't forget sugarcoating ads as being “unobtrusive” or “environment-supporting” or whatever. But guess what? If you don't want to see them, you can upgrade to YouTube Premium Plus and continue being an apologist.
      • wiseowisean hour ago
        But think how hard it is for them to earn money to make up for all the billions they’ve used to create de facto monopoly in video space? Won’t someone think of poor capitalists trying to squeeze the niche dry?
      • mschuster9144 minutes ago
        > YouTube Premium is an extortion scheme.

        One might also say it was unsustainable from the start, video is incredibly expensive to host and especially moderate.

        All we're seeing right now is the beginning of the end of the ad-financed world. Someone has to pay the bills in the end and advertisement spending is on the way down, more and more of it is going to influencers/TTL instead of traditional ATL/BTL marketing.