40 pointsby speckx6 hours ago12 comments
  • doodlebugging3 hours ago
    I thought it was a page about recipes for cannibals or tuberculosis tracking from the name. Luckily the title helped clarify the misleading website name.

    Y'all some hungry mofos. That counter zipped thru 13 million poor tasty, little critters while I was on that page. The cattle numbers seemed low relative to others. Maybe because they are larger and each feeds more individuals.

    What about normal game animals like deer, squirrel, wild turkey, rabbit, dove, quail, pigeon, etc? I think this site only gives a glimpse of the true scope of animal deliciousness.

    I also disagree with the numbers since most look they are wild-ass guesses intended to inflate or mislead so as to cause those of us who consume all this delicious meat to switch to more sensitive plants, insects, or algae, or fungi.

    Imagine the numbers you'd have to report if you were accurately reporting seed consumption of typical grains, legumes, leafy vegetables, herbs (which are delicious with meats), and spices and all the other things that vegetarians or vegans profess such deep attractions to that they can ignore all the destruction wrought by the agricultural practices relevant to their foodstocks. Some of the agricultural lands being tallied are used for growing crops like soybeans for consumption as pseudo-meat by vegans who couldn't be morally outraged enough about habitat loss for their beany things to worry about their own destructive impact on mother earth.

    What happens to the collective consciousness of a fungal colony when someone comes along and rips off a few warty things for their supper? Do you think that the fungus stores a memory of the event and the participants so that once they finally hit the dirt that memory can pass along the subterranean chain so that the fungus can move in return the favor?

    • zahlman3 hours ago
      > I thought it was a page about recipes for cannibals or tuberculosis tracking from the name. Luckily the title helped clarify the misleading website name.

      Agreed. It's called "human consumption", but it neither relates to the consumption of humans, nor the phenomenon in humans called "consumption", nor does it cover all consumption by humans, or even all food consumption.

      > Y'all some hungry mofos.

      Less than one animal per person per day, and the overwhelming majority of them are fish and invertebrate sea life (two thirds of that in the Asia-Pacific region).

      • doodlebugging2 hours ago
        It takes a lot of small sea critters to make on big fish like a tuna.

        If we weren't supposed to eat all this stuff then why did Jesus feed those hungry people in Matthew (14:14-21) bread (vegan food) and fish (non-vegan food)? Was he just covering all his bases or was it because fish really aren't meat?

        And if fish aren't meat then that website needs to account for that since the numbers would definitely seem to be greatly exaggerated on top of probably being invented.

    • dang2 hours ago
      OK, we've taken cannibal connotations out of the title above.

      (Submitted title was "HumanConsumption.Live – Real-Time Global Animal Consumption Stats". I've replaced it with a phrase from the subtitle.)

      • doodlebuggingan hour ago
        The post title makes more sense now. The website name is a bit misleading but is out of your control. Leading with that initially created the opportunity to lampoon them in a good-natured sort of way.

        If anyone's feelings were hurt by anything I posted here today I remind you to think of the plants. Mine have spent more than a week nearly frozen under a thick blanket of sleet waiting for me to have the opportunity to remove their cold weather protections so that they can once again feel the warmth of Mr Sunshine for a few hours before being covered again to protect them from the hard freeze we'll have again tonight. I love my plants and they grow well for me. And then I eat them, all the edible parts anyway, sometimes with meat but not always.

  • CurrentB5 hours ago
    I went vegan six months ago after being exposed to numbers like this and thinking about it a bit. In particular, imagining extending the empathy I felt for my pets to all these other unseen animals that really aren't much different. I thought I'd try it for a week to see how hard it was. It was so easy that I never looked back. These numbers all could be pretty close to zero and we humans would still thrive just as much as we are now, but causing much less suffering to other beings.
    • barbazoo4 hours ago
      Even just being aware of one’s privilege to eat animals or even animal products and the impact on other living beings for our “pleasure”. A little more humility would go a long way in terms of animal welfare.
      • MisterTea3 hours ago
        > one’s privilege to eat animals

        What privileges us vs a crow, catfish or lion?

        • barbazoo2 hours ago
          We don't have to anything for it. Someone artificially inseminates the animal, raises the animal, keeps it in mostly in terrible conditions we would cry about if we saw them, drives them somewhere for slaughter, processes the remains until it looks appetizing for you to just heat up and eat. All for couple of dollars per pound. Unbelievable privilege of not seeing the suffering involved.

          Animals go out and kill other animals for food, have to deal with the family and friends of the animal it just killed, compete with other animals for the meat, etc. Much more vulnerable and involved.

          • doodlebugging2 hours ago
            But what about raising a crop right up to the point where it's helicoptered its genitals enough to have found a gullible pollinator or sprayed it's pollen widely enough to produce the seed for the next generation and then killing it, thus cutting it down in the prime of its life with no opportunity for that plant's descendants to sprout and grow (especially if they are Monsanto seeds) and reach the point where they too can wag their privates while looking for PILFs (plants ...)?

            Everything has to eat something. Humans are omnivorous. We have a choice and some choose to base their diets on plant consumption while others eat a little meat and still others eat mostly meat. It's all okay. The universe is working as intended. Villifying those who choose a different diet than yours seems like a petty exercise by people who need to invent a reason to feel better about themselves.

            If you enjoy and love the foods that you eat then you are doing it right. There is no requirement and no need to proselytize about your choices. We have enough other religions who have forgotten the main message to deal with. It will be just as easy for people to tune yours out.

        • xnx2 hours ago
          Carnivores can't survive/thrive on a vegetarian diet like humans.
    • 77773322155 hours ago
      Would you raise your own animals to kill and eat? Animals eat other animals, it's nature.
      • hshdhdhj44444 hours ago
        Animals do a whole bunch of things to other animals we wouldn’t consider acceptable.

        Cannibalism, eating your young, rape, etc.

        I’m not sure why killing for food is the one place we should choose to define our values and ethics based on what animals in the wild do.

        • robcohen3 hours ago
          The problem I have with being vegetarian is that you can't prove that it's actually healthier, because the current state of dietary science is pretty poor.

          Even if you could, you would also need to explain all of the evolutionary problems that could come from some humans going vegetarian while others don't.

          What if being vegetarian makes you smaller and weaker physically (perhaps the case in some vegetarian countries now). If you had the answer, and it was clear a diet consisting of vegetables causes reduction in physical size, then I have to ask:

          Would you want your kids to be shorter and physically weaker than you are?

          • gruez2 hours ago
            >Would you want your kids to be shorter and physically weaker than you are?

            As someone who eats meat, that's probably one of the worse arguments against vegetarianism/veganism I've heard. If eating animals is immoral, sure why not? If pillaging your neighbors makes your society better off, do you think a good objection to "maybe we shouldn't pillage our neighbors" is "Would you want your kids to be shorter and physically weaker than you are"?

          • CurrentB2 hours ago
            Do you want your kids to have colon cancer or heart disease because there is pretty strong evidence to suggest red meat contributes to these. And there's much stronger evidence for that than there is that suggests that vegetarian kids will be shorter and physically weaker (in fact I don't think there is much good evidence at all suggesting that).

            Do you also have a problem with red meat?

          • mmooss2 hours ago
            'What if' is pointless. What if vegetarianism makes you stronger than eating meat? What if it increases your IQ by 20 points or makes you live 200 years? What if you can code faster drinking rare pygmy tree sap or the blood of certain albino poison toads?

            > you can't prove that it's actually healthier, because the current state of dietary science is pretty poor.

            Almost every decision in life must be made without proof, but with evidence and judgment. We know a lot about nutrition, and a lot of evidence points toward health benefits in eating more vegetables and less meat. We can also see lots of vegetarians in our communities and they don't seem sickly or shorter, etc. - we also see elite athletes in public who are vegetarians.

            > a diet consisting of vegetables

            Vegetarianim is much more than vegetables; it's everything but meat - legumes (generally beans), vegetables, fruits, grains, nuts - plus eggs and cheese. Vegans cut out the latter two items.

            > What if being vegetarian makes you smaller and weaker physically (perhaps the case in some vegetarian countries now).

            Where?

            > evolutionary problems that could come from some humans going vegetarian while others don't.

            What problems? How does diet affect evolution? We'll lose our hunting muscles over the next 500,000 years? Remember humans haven't changed much biologically in 200,000+ years.

        • card_zero3 hours ago
          Conversely, I'm not sure why we shouldn't limit our tender feelings to the individual animals we personally relate to. Values are based on other values, and equality is based on freedom of thought and the value of knowledge. Being kind to animals is about humans really, I think.
      • xnx5 hours ago
        Murder and rape are also part of nature, but humans can reflect and consider the effects of their actions in ways other animals can't.
      • CurrentB4 hours ago
        Personally that would be even worse for me, though I understand maybe "better" on a societal scale by some metrics. To feed a being every day and care for it, to gain its trust, to appreciate their individuality, then to have them killed when they reach some fraction of its potential lifespan, I just don't want to do that. I'm perfectly happy eating legumes.
        • 77773322154 hours ago
          I'm not sure if it would be better on a societal scale in terms of pollution and efficiency, but instead in ethical concerns with how the animals were treated.

          What about raising cows or chickens, then consuming their milk and eggs?

          • kuerbel4 hours ago
            In dairy farming, calves are usually separated from their mothers shortly after birth so the milk can be used for production. There are a few farms that keep calves with their mothers, but this isn’t something that scales in industrial systems. I worked on a farm for a while, and the day I had to take a newborn calf away from its mother, I became vegan. Farmers often say that cows don’t form a bond after giving birth, but that doesn’t match what I experienced. I have never heard anything as deeply sad as a mother cow calling for her baby.
            • doodlebugging2 hours ago
              Wait till you get into the other agricultural practices like raising sheep for wool or selecting your herd bulls.

              Sheep get castrated, ears notched and tail docked. Then they get set out to pasture.

              A bull is selected to be your herd bull and any cows either get milked as you described or pastured to be mama cows for building a herd. Any bull calves either get sold off to be someone else's herd bulls if the genetics are good enough or they get castrated, notched ears and in at least one herd I have seen, their tails are docked.

              As the old ag teacher in high school explained, you castrate them to keep their minds off of the ass and put 'em on the grass.

          • CurrentB4 hours ago
            Presumably you only would acquire female chickens to lay eggs. What happened to the male ones? (I don't recommend googling this).

            What do you do with the cow when its milk yield drops after several pregnancies? what do you do with the male calves? Just keep them all as pets?

            I think there are situations I could contrive where I'd say yeah its fine ethically to eat these things, but the general case still has victims.

            And again, since maybe the first week without them, I truly haven't missed milk or eggs or anything else after eliminating them from my diet. Plant options are pretty good too and there are plenty of plants.

      • midtake2 hours ago
        Yes. That is far more harmonious with nature than using machines of industry to enslave animal species and slaughter them on profit-driven schedules.

        Don't get me wrong, I eat meat, but I also understand that the grand majority of fellow meat-eaters have never hunted or reared livestock. Instead they are complete soyboys (ironic isn't it) who merely consume the output from the machine. These same beta cucks will open their mouths to screech "but animals eat animals in the wild!" Completely missing how unnatural an industrialized slaughter machine is.

        The only reason they are enslaved is that they lack organization and understanding. Had they those two, they could kill us all.

      • mmooss2 hours ago
        There are many good arguments I think, but not this one. Nature is eating your neighbor's children; it's starvation, epidemics, and massive forest fires; it's unrestrained homicide and rape; it's leaving your physically weakened child to die; it's eating the head of your spouse; it's survival of the fittest; ... (you get my point).

        The other animals in nature are not my standard of behavior. In a sense, the point of any culture is to exceed nature and by as much as possible.

    • rmah2 hours ago
      I disagree.
      • CurrentBan hour ago
        With what exactly?
        • rmahan hour ago
          All of it.
  • blell5 hours ago
    I understand this kind of people is allergic to “per capita”, but really, showing a list of consumption by region when the regions are of such different sizes is next to worthless.
    • barbazoo5 hours ago
      Per capita would be great. The absolute numbers are still mind boggling.
    • welferkj3 hours ago
      I'm "allergic to per capita" specifically in cases where it doesn't matter but keeps getting brought up as a bad faith retort.

      As an example, it doesn't matter who emits CO2 or where from, since we're all emitting it into the same air, and the only thing that matters is the absolute amount. Similarly, I imagine it's cold comfort for domestic animals in subsaharan Africa that their torturers, rapists, and murderers are marginally less prolific than those in other regions.

  • xnx4 hours ago
    I don't consume animal products, but -while well intentioned- I'm not sure a dashboard with these types of huge numbers does much as an advocacy tool.

    People are ill equipped to put such large numbers in context, let alone ~40 of them.

    Like a slide deck, better to limit to one number and one message per page(/screen). Otherwise, it's just a data dump.

    • graemep4 hours ago
      I do not see the point of large numbers. If its not OK to eat meat, then its not OK to eat one. If is OK, why does scale make it not OK?

      I did not expect Asia to be quite so dominant. I did expect, but interesting to see confirmation, that the Americas grow so much grain for animal feed.

    • 3 hours ago
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  • fooker3 hours ago
    If these numbers seem extraordinarily high to you, try and estimate the scale of deforestation it would take to replace all this food with grains and vegetables.

    (Hint: about 5-10x the available fertile land on earth)

  • davidmurdoch4 hours ago
    Something interesting to see is a version of if this that displayed a % of total animals instead of absolutes.
  • seanwilson4 hours ago
    There's also the significant cost to climate change because growing crops to feed to animals instead of eating crops directly loses the majority of calories, but it gets ignored because doing something about it is going to be unpopular:

    https://ourworldindata.org/global-land-for-agriculture

    > More than three-quarters of global agricultural land is used for livestock, despite meat and dairy making up a much smaller share of the world's protein and calories.

    > Despite the vast land used for livestock animals, they contribute quite a small share of the global calorie and protein supply. Meat, dairy, and farmed fish provide just 17% of the world’s calories and 38% of its protein.

    https://ourworldindata.org/land-use-diets

    > Livestock are fed from two sources – lands on which the animals graze and land on which feeding crops, such as soy and cereals, are grown. How much would our agricultural land use decline if the world adopted a plant-based diet?

    > Research suggests that if everyone shifted to a plant-based diet, we would reduce global land use for agriculture by 75%.

    • zahlman4 hours ago
      > but it gets ignored because doing something about it is going to be unpopular

      It gets talked about all the time.

      • CurrentB4 hours ago
        Do you think it widely leads to behavior changes among people that support environmental causes?
        • zahlman4 hours ago
          Not really; but talking about it more also seems like it will have approximately zero marginal benefit, and trying to insinuate that other people are immoral is probably net counterproductive.
        • renewiltord4 hours ago
          In the US 8 out of the top 10 environmental organizations with most membership oppose nuclear power broadly and the majority oppose wind and solar locally so I think we can safely conclude that climate change is not important to US environmental causes.

          The primary work by US environmentalists (or at least the popular ones) is in ensuring rich people’s homes abut publicly-maintained parks.

  • Cu3PO424 hours ago
    I personally find the "animals killed since you opened this page" number to be the most unsettling. YTD numbers are so large, I find them hard to process.

    If you choose to eat meat, please be aware of the conditions most of these animals exist in and how they die. I'll spare you more numbers, because they don't do the cruel reality justice anyway. Instead, I'll leave you with some video material: https://animalequality.org/blog/factory-farming-facts/

  • schlap4 hours ago
    Hell yeah, live leaderboard of humans.

    Add a K/D Ratio next plz

  • big-chungus44 hours ago
    Wait so when I ate the steak, it actually went up, how did it know?
  • slifin3 hours ago
    I am going to continue eating meat and plants but that's because the choice between eating plants or meat misses the point

    The issue here is the industrialisation of the land and the shortcuts that farmers are doing that essentially kill the land, animals and plants in a way that is unmaintainable

    The way this should work is animals should be herded on to land to eat and poo, once the grasses are nearly eaten the animals should be rotated on to other fields, the new grass regrows in this fresh environment because it has no competitor and plenty of fertiliser this process kills weeds and rejuvenates soil ready for planting

    This mimics the nomadic lives that early humans would have led, following their herds of animals to fresh new pastures

    Then the farmers worked out they didn't need animals to do this process they could just plow their fields and then that gets rid of the weeds, not quite as good as animals doing it in terms of soil health but effective and quick

    Then the farmers were sold weed killers which meant they didn't need to plow their field, they just needed to buy GMO glyphosate resistant seeds and flood their fields with glyphosate, some types of crops are even killed close to harvest with glyphosate so it'll be in your food at high rates for certain crops

    The problem with this approach is glyphosate is assumed safe because its mechanism for killing weeds is based on a system we don't directly have as humans, but our gut bacteria do, it also competes with glycine in our bodies used to create proteins, I wouldn't want to drink glyphosate from the bottle but it's being added to my food so effectively I do that

    It also degrades the soil quality into dust, instead of being full of earth worms which would normally feed the birds, the local wildlife etc

    So these mono culture fields are just turning huge swathe of land into sterile dust bowls that exacerbate climate change

    Then these crops are either sold directly to me as a plant eater or given to the animals to make them bulk up and sick

    As someone who eats a lot of meat I want my animals to be grass fed (or their natural diet) I don't want them to have to take antibiotics because the farmer needed to bulk them up with cheap glyphosate laced mono culture grains and cereals to get more profit out of the animal

    So if you are vegan you cannot just wipe your hands of this problem because you're still contributing by eating these mono crops - What we really need from consumers is for them to care how their plants and animals are raised and not accept glyphosate or other weed killers in their supply chains

    Animals should be pasture raised from a moral point of view but also a health and climate point of view

  • lastwalz2 hours ago
    [flagged]