They should augment deployed enforcement with those who have such expertise.
Why is crowd control even needed?
ICE existed for many, many years before now, and them doing their job never caused crowds previously (under both R and D administrations), so what (rhetorically) changed?
Deploying literal hordes of poorly trained, well-armed men onto American streets with explicit guidance that runs directly contrary to the US Constitution's plain text can, will, and SHOULD attract crowds in opposition.
Hope that helps!
Now, when we see ICE grabbing someone, we know that person probably won't have access to legal representation even if they are here legally, even if they're a citizen. We know they might be sent to a concentration camp in a foreign country they aren't from, and we know they might even get murdered in the street. It's a very different dynamic.
We have numerous examples of people who have followed all legal procedures and have legal status in the US who were likewise denied basic Constitutional protections.
Here are a few relevant sources:
https://www.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/2025-04/FIRE%20Ozt...
https://www.cato.org/blog/50-venezuelans-imprisoned-el-salva...
Why?
LOL. Why do you assume you'll get a hearing?
As Timothy Snyder (an historian of Central and Eastern Europe, the Soviet Union, and the Holocaust) observed last year:
> If you accept that non-citizens have no right to due process, you are accepting that citizens have no right to due process. All the government has to do is claim that you are not a citizen; without due process you have no chance to prove the contrary.
* https://xcancel.com/TimothyDSnyder/status/190429656556234343...
"Well I'll get due process because I just need to say I'm a citizen!"
Bro... to whom do you say that? When? In what forum? That is literally the entire point of contention!
https://www.wcvb.com/article/21-citizenship-oaths-canceled-f...
They have not been supporting ICE on warrentless invasions, fishing expeditions, assaulting local citizens.
At this point, you just have to assume the truth is exactly the opposite of what the feds are saying. How do you know a fed is lying...their mouth is moving.
Previously I felt like a hyperbolic nerd, and now I have a whole lot of new friends all working on the same stuff. Wheee. Go team. I hate it.
Fortunately it feels very much the other direction, lately- more folks seeing the dangers, more willingness to take the long bet. Fewer folks at brunch.
That's a bet some of have been taking for a while, though it's oftent felt dumb, and we haven't needed a great shocking occasion to do it.
https://www.propublica.org/article/kristi-noem-dhs-ad-campai...
"Firm Tied to Kristi Noem Secretly Got Money From $220 Million DHS Ad Contracts The company is run by the husband of Noem’s chief DHS spokesperson and has personal and business ties to Noem and her aides. DHS invoked the “emergency” at the border to skirt competitive bidding rules for the taxpayer-funded campaign."
and that cherry on top:
"DHS, White House shared white nationalist song in ICE recruitment posts"
https://www.splcenter.org/resources/hatewatch/white-national...
I will say though that I am also a bit scared. When government officials push a blatantly false narrative, that they know is a lie, and their supporting voters completely accept that version of reality over what they can see with their eyes, it suggests that those same voters would be okay with ANYTHING the administration does.
It's been this way for a while, though. It's just that the stakes of the things they are willing to tell folks to "2+2=5" about seem to have dropped substantially. It used to be about the goodness of US foreign interventions and, say, "imperial capitalism" in general, and they made plenty of fun propaganda to support it: "Red Dawn" or "First Blood"- quality and fun propaganda.
When they started kidnapping folks from our communities who've been peacefully chilling and being community members for decades, it got a lot less abstract, I think.
If it helps, understand that it becomes ever easier to get folks to disbelieve the government when they can see it; it's far harder to get the average brunch-enjoyer to care when they are doing a central american coup... much easier to care when they are shooting yt wmn in the streets.
Famously, there are plenty of stories in the west about eastern-bloc countries and propaganda, where everyone knows that that the papers don't tell the truth but the truth circulates regardless.
So maybe don't worry about the false narratives- worry about the recouperative powers of capital to pull all those radicalized liberals back into the fold instead of using a mass line of organization to force structural changes.
Please be bait...
Why are you inferring that that comment was downvoted for the 13% of it that you quoted rather than something in the other 87%?
The government cannot send out masked, untrained goon squads to bust down doors without warrants or probable cause. They are forbidden from doing that by the Constitution.
The "inevitable tragedies" are from free people exercising their rights in the face of an administration which obviously has nothing but contempt for them.
Renee Good dropped her kids off in childcare so she could go and obstruct armed law enforcement officers in the course of their work using her car as a weapon.
If a close member of your family told you they were intending to do this, would you discourage them from taking this action? If you cared about them, of course you would discourage this. And if you are honest you would admit this.
The Democrat party is encouraging people to do this.
I don't think you are remotely close to "getting it". My point was accurate and valid. You replied with a vague deflection followed by abuse. Not worth engaging.
Incidentally here's a video of the "poor, innocent nurse" Alex Pretti interacting with law enforcement a week before his fatal altercation where he turned up with a weapon
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XzNvxc-Q5wo
Of course he doesnt deserve to die as a result but in a highly, volatile environment he sure is acting pretty stupidly.
Everyone within the borders of the United States has rights, even if they're here illegally. That's what it means to be a free country.
I'm not sure what you mean. The Gastapo was an organ of the state. Geheime Staatspolize means "Secret State Police."
I suppose Gestapo did have more menacing uniforms.
Arguably ICE does seem to overreact but I would still appreciate more nuanced articles that really try their best to be purely fact based and don't attempt to manipulate the wording to make ICE seem better or worse than it is.
where was everyone standing when she said to drive? could she see the ICE agent in front of the car? also, you can tell someone to "drive drive", but that does not mean to "drive over whoever is in front of you". reads to me like you are as guilty of reading more into it as you claim they are for not quoting 'drive drive'.
This is the upgraded version of "you may beat the rap but you won't beat the ride" -- where that ride may take you halfway across the country and be detained incommunicado for many days before being ejected out of the holding center and on your own to get home.
This is well-documented and a legitimate concern of any legal protester being illegally detained.
> violently extracting her from the car
Isn't that what always happens when someone doesn't comply when told to exit their vehicle? Since when has not complying with an officer on the street resulted them in saying, 'Oh, okay, carry on what you were doing'?
I imagine if I parked perpendicular on a road and danced while honking my horn (timestamp 39 seconds in video below), then not complying when the police told me to exit the vehicle, the police would try to extract me by force as well.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=wrlUUPZPpaY
I always thought a protest was chanting with signs, but it seems like times have changed.
I haven't seen videos and of officers going up to people holding signs (who are not trying to be physical with the officers) and initiating physical contact.
I haven't seen video of the officers walk up to Alex Pretti and tackle him for no reason. I have seen a video of him on a prior day kicking and breaking the light off a vehicle:
https://x.com/RyanSaavedra/status/2016611647553413126
Is the constant blaring of whistles at Alex Pretti's shooting, to alert people, or make it more likely for the officers to make a mistake?
I'm not a fan of anything that's going on, and it appears that people are trying to make things worse, not better. Why?
Not complying with a masked men with guns who gave conflicting info (leave now/get out of the car) who were going to mess her up as much as they could? Really? She was trying to leave.
You should watch the video where Alex Pretti tries to protect and aid a women who was pepper sprayed by ICE officials approaching them, and then tackled and shot multiple times, and then more for good measure.
> I'm not a fan of anything that's going on, and it appears that people are trying to make things worse, not better. Why?
If you are a rationalist, you should be taking in all possible information and be prepared to change your mind as compelling evidence is presednted.
Let's work backwards from the situation: Why is ICE in Minnesota in the first place? Ostensibly because of financial fraud (not their area of interest), and more so, as a show of strength and intimidation.
Steven Miller has publicly stated that ICE has zero accountability and freedom to act as they see fit. 1st Amendment and 4th Amendments are doormats to these people. And with Alex Pretti, they now declare that 2A is null and void too.
So your position is kneel and comply regardless of why?
Edit: I didn't downvote you because I wanted to answer with dialog instead. You send some very mixed messages about not liking what's happening but also blaming the victims for their fate.
when you're in front of of the car at some distance like the shooting ICE in the video and the car is making a turn in front of you, you clearly see that the car is moving away from you to the side, not moving toward you.
News: holy shit this guy murdered that lady on camera.
You: they are slandering ICE.
Make it make sense.
Without obscuring how bad is it, I don't believe there was ever a time when officials _didn't_ rush to defend federal officers without waiting for key facts to emerge. The us government has constantly loved to say that no one working for them has done anything wrong.
But overall, I also disagree. The press has been very easy on Trump, from going easy on the grab then by the pussy tape, to never saying that he lies, to not making an issue out of his mental decline.
The way Noem et al. immediately started with the violent domestic terrorist rhetoric / we've done nothing wrong was absolutely unheralded, and the government was never like this. When there's a shooting you say that the situation on the ground is dynamic, evidence is being amassed, the subjects are on leave pending the investigation, etc.
This was completely unlike the historic norm, and clearly it was the marching orders. They were obviously instructed to ape Trump's habit of utter confidence in the face of devastating reality.
And I mean, it just reflects how Trump operates. Reality is secondary to what you claim it is, and if you lie, and everyone knows you lied, just repeat the lie again and again and it breaks many people's brains until some subset of the population will just go "Wow, no one is so shameless or vile they'd lie like this, so he must be telling the truth!". Similarly, immediately pretend that these situations and slam dunk, quick-close cases with over the top rhetoric (terrorism! ICE agent hospitalized in mortal danger, etc) no further consideration needed, is perfectly coherent with the way Trump has managed to con so, so many.