209 pointsby saubeidl5 hours ago25 comments
  • iceflinger2 hours ago
    Not sure why this is flagged? One of the largest social media platforms in the industry changed ownership, its user base is noticing an unexplained change in functionality? Surely that warrants a discussion among tech people?
    • dudefeliciano2 hours ago
      these topics are controversial for people who support the current US government, they don't want to see it on their tech-news website (even though it's called hacker news, the spirit of the hacker manifesto is not alive here).

      Funnily enough, these flagged topics seem to spark a lot of conversation, and the voices of the government supporters are not heard here...So they just flag and move on, not even trying to defend their position

      • xtractoan hour ago
        My problem with these type of posts in HN is that the discussion doesn't offer ANYTHING constructive.

        I comment a lot about these matters on Reddit, and I'm very much against all that's happening in the USA.

        But the reality is that the discourse i see here in these types of political posts is the same as on Reddit and the like. (Whether For or against )

        It would be great if somehow the discussion added something different. Like the post about Iran censorship and the suggestions on technology to bypass it (I learned about Snowflake) .

        But the problem with US related politics is that HN people are very emotionally invested (being Americans most of them) and that makes the discussion become very visceral.

        • Schmerika14 minutes ago
          > My problem with these type of posts in HN is that the discussion doesn't offer ANYTHING constructive.

          They offer a chance for awareness, which is literally step one. Americans are some of the most propagandized people on Earth, and most don't even know it.

          It's crucial that the tech community develops more awareness around censorship - no small share of the responsibility is with us.

          Censoring stories about censorship, on a premier tech community and investment forum, just because the discussion gets 'visceral' is simply capitulation to any entity willing to try and make a discussion toxic. We need to do a lot better than that.

      • thunkyan hour ago
        > the voices of the government supporters are not heard here

        This is sad to me because I really want to hear the other perspective, and there is no place that exists (that I know of) for people who disagree with each other to have a real conversation. Nothing left but echo chambers.

        But I think HN falls into this trap because the down vote button is used when people disagree with the other person, which imo is a misappropriation and what prevents people from sharing unpopular opinions.

      • zombotan hour ago
        > not even trying to defend their position

        Hard to do when your position is essentially indefensible.

    • saubeidl2 hours ago
      There is a certain proto-fascist contingent here that sees it to their duty to stifle all discussion critical of the regime.
      • Schmerika22 minutes ago
        And there are people who own and run this website with extremely aligned interests.

        Altman and Thiel have long had YC connections (obv); and for the last year or so Garry Tan and PG have been full-throatedly cheerleading Musk and DOGE on their Twitter pages.

        Then there's the many connections between YC and the 'defense' industry; you know, the one making billions of dollars from wars that people speak out about on social media.

        It's very easy to explain why posts get flagged here. It's a lot harder to digest why they don't get unflagged. Especially when all the posts about it are quickly removed, every single one.

    • rsynnott34 minutes ago
      Minihands's fans tend to flag anything unfavourable to Dear Leader.
  • oefrha5 hours ago
    This is quite out of character for a lawn mower; lawn mowers shouldn't care.
  • macshaggy3 hours ago
    Celebrities need to stop giving their sht to these SM companies and used Federated social media. So they can own their product and not have to worry about being censored for being anti-government.

    Which is hilarious sentence now because this government so pro free speech!!! sarcasm*

    But seriously this is something that if my main gig was to create music or some art form, I wouldn't want to be on a corp run platform. I would want to own it myself and the all that data.

  • Alifatisk4 hours ago
    Is the country falling apart? So many extreme events is happening over there.
    • hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm4 hours ago
      [flagged]
      • Alifatisk4 hours ago
        Doesn’t more and more countries fall into the enemies category as Trump is ruining international relationships?
        • hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm4 hours ago
          This is just changing goal posts but that aside, Trump got a standing ovation at Davos and got a deal for Greenland. Everything prior to that was a performance. One day he says British troops weren't on the front line in Afghanistan, the next day he says they are the greatest warriors of all time besides the US. He is incredibly good at manipulating public perception to change opinions and get what he wants. What appears to you as chaos or "making enemies" to him is just business as usual.
          • notamario4 hours ago
            What did he get out of the Greenland deal that the US didn’t have Jan 19, 2025?
            • hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm4 hours ago
              I am not the NATO chief.
              • koonsolo3 hours ago
                Then tell us what powers does the Dutch NATO chief has to make a deal in name of Greenland and Denmark.

                Trump got empty hands, he got totally played by the nice words of Rutte.

                Edit: Your conversation is really mind boggling:

                "Trump got a great deal on Greenland!"

                "What deal?"

                "How would I know?!?!?!"

                • hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm3 hours ago
                  It is not mind boggling if you don't manipulate quotes to fit for your narrative.
                  • piva00an hour ago
                    It is mind boggling how you keep trying to deflect away given your narrative.

                    > Trump got a standing ovation at Davos and got a deal for Greenland

                    And you don't know what is the deal, at all, so how can you base your entire argument in something you simply do not know? You don't know, you simply do not know.

                    • koonsolo37 minutes ago
                      I'm confident to go a step further and say there is no deal.

                      Greenland and Denmark weren't present to make a deal.

                      And to quote Trump: "Well, the deal is going to be put out pretty soon and we'll see. It's right now a little bit in progress, but pretty far along." (from https://www.youtube.com/shorts/W_UE7h3nTmQ)

                      The deal that is "now a little bit in progress", sounds to me like there is no deal.

                  • koonsoloan hour ago
                    Nice way of avoiding the main question: What deal? There is no new deal between Greenland/Denmark and US.
          • Martinussen3 hours ago
            I think you are heavily underestimating the level of contempt he has built towards Americans and the US in the last month or two. I don't think Europeans, certainly not Scandinavians, will forget this for decades. This isn't like some random normal boycott-type movement that goes viral, I legitimately think Americans are teetering on being persona non grata as a people unless they prove they've divorced themselves from the mess at home.

            It might be manipulating people at home, but you're closer (still not close, obviously) to Russia than Sweden as far as a trustworthy business partner or ally now. We're suddenly not making any long term plans that rely on America or American companies where it's avoidable, I don't know if you understand how big of a shift that is.

          • mda4 hours ago
            He is not good at manipulating the public, almost everyone knows what he actually is (there is not much to know at this point anyway). They are not applauding him, they do it because they need US economy to keep things afloat they smile and shake hands because of that. He could be just saying random words or saying only profanities from start to finish, the outcome would be the same, they would still give a standing ovation with eyes rolling.
          • WickyNilliams4 hours ago
            > He is incredibly good at manipulating public perception to change opinions and get what he wants

            Sorry but you are suffering from some kind of delusion here. He's not manipulating public perception in any way that is beneficial to him or the US. He's crashing his own public perception (which was already in the gutter to all but the sycophants and blind loyalists) and taking the US' reputation with him

            • hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm3 hours ago
              This is the one thing you shouldn't deny especially if you don't like Trump.

              “There is no greater danger than underestimating your opponent.” ― Lao Tzu

              • WickyNilliams3 hours ago
                Oh I don't underestimate him. It's been obvious he's dangerous from day 1. But being dangerous does not preclude being (seen to be) a fool.
          • simgt4 hours ago
            > Trump got a standing ovation at Davos

            Let's run the clap-o-meter.

            - Trump: https://www.youtube.com/live/qo2-q4AFh_g?si=1dLbyqmpVH39KtY1...

            - Carney: https://youtu.be/CQOr9FcSf-M?si=vb4Z9fSOewRyV_7S&t=1130

            • dudefelicianoan hour ago
              Are you even surprised, the intellectual dishonesty of MAGA knows no bounds.
          • awesome_dude4 hours ago
            Wait, everything ELSE was a "performance" but a (claimed) standing ovation was the real deal...?
            • hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm4 hours ago
              You can just watch the event.

              Edit: https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cm24vjvy3n1o

              "I was in the room when President Donald Trump entered and it's fair to say he got a good welcome from the crowd, certainly at the beginning. A standing ovation."

              • piva00an hour ago
                Because everyone knows how easy it is to play Trump, do a standing ovation and his ego is satisfied so it's easier to deal with him.

                Exactly like you'd do with a toddler :)

          • ilogik4 hours ago
            And all the people that died because of him, is that intended?
            • hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm4 hours ago
              Who are all the people? Unfortunately for Trump, he doesn't control every trigger that gets pulled but now we are seeing de-escalation.
            • neonsunset4 hours ago
              [dead]
          • watwut4 hours ago
            Trump did not got standing ovation, Carney got ovation. Trumps entourage tried to invoke standing ovation, but failed.

            People were leaving and stopped paying attention during Trump speech. It was just ... bad.

          • 3 hours ago
            undefined
          • darig4 hours ago
            [dead]
  • akagusu3 hours ago
    Why does everything ICE related gets flagged on HN?
    • saubeidl3 hours ago
      Pro-Regime enforcers exist in the digital world as well.

      21st century brownshirts, if you will.

  • iinnPP4 hours ago
    This isn't very compelling. It's 2 anecdotes and a pretty damning final paragraph. Is there any more reliable data?
    • theshrike7926 minutes ago
      Anecdata is strong, I have multiple cases myself just from browsing this morning.

      But I'm leaning towards incompetence. Some US generated stuff was most likely moved to Oracle shitboxes, causing encoding issues and unreliable streaming.

      ...or it's malice and they're scanning the data and intentionally throttling traffic for unwanted content.

    • peyton4 hours ago
      I believe the headline is missing a “mistakenly”. Very strange article given the headline.
    • SilverElfin4 hours ago
      Data? No. None of these companies are making their data freely available for analysis or being transparent about how their algorithms work. People have complained for a while that Twitter / X seems to suppress the visibility and reach of profiles or posts that disagree with Musk’s views. The recent open sourcing of their algorithm is meaningless since there’s no evidence of what they actually have in production or what data / configuration is used with it.

      So the best we can do is anecdotal examples. And it’s also obvious that Trump avoided banning TikTok for months, illegally, because he wanted to have another platform serve as a mouthpiece. He now has that by forcing a sale of TikTok to his friend, Larry Ellison.

      • ethbr12 hours ago
        The fact that social media companies aren't mandated by law to provide transparency into reach / visibility is a travesty.

        It should be fucking table stakes for being able to run a business with that much power and influence.

    • computerthings43 minutes ago
      [dead]
  • wormpilled4 hours ago
    Makes sense since Oracle now has complete control of it.
  • baxtr4 hours ago
    I have a bit of experience with video platforms.

    It’s really hard to say which video will work or not. What people react to and what not.

    All I’m saying is that this could also potentially be explained by "The Algorithm" per se.

    • mrtksn4 hours ago
      There’s lots of myths in social media, some weeks ago I kept seeing people on TikTok claiming that if you put some keyword in you profile(I think it was “Oracle”) or some of your post you will start seeing the protest again because the algorithm will “reset”. I assumed that someone was trying to farm accounts interested in politics or maybe indeed the algorithm steers by the introduction of the new for the account word.

      Anyway, considering that the purchase of the American TikTok was done with a purpose and there is documented collusion between the involved tech Billionaires and the political class behind the street executions in American cities that drive those protests, I wouldn’t be surprised that they are actually throttling this time.

    • scotty794 hours ago
      Support for ICE is in minority (although a large one). I don't think algorithm would suppress negative opinions on it, especially among viewership of celebrities that don't appeal to the right side of political spectrum.
  • docdeek4 hours ago
    That’s not a very convincing article. One person leaving TikTok claiming she was silenced, and another where a claim of silencing is made but, within 24 hours, the ‘silenced’ video "has more than 220,000 views and over 70,000 likes”. Perhaps there is some silencing going on, but it doesn’t appear that there is much evidence of it in this particular article.
  • rsynnott4 hours ago
    Celebrities should consider maybe not using social media things controlled by the regime? Like, other social media is available.
    • filoelevenan hour ago
      They will follow wherever the network effect goes, the same way that more influencers are posting to Bluesky in addition to Twitter now, and some of them are making the move entirely.
    • vanviegen4 hours ago
      > Like, other social media is available.

      Social media that actually have a large audience and that cannot be easily pressured by the US government?

    • Maken4 hours ago
      This specific social media was not controlled by the regime, and they are taking every step necessary to correct that.
  • niemandhier4 hours ago
    In transparency will do this.

    No one can know what TikTok censors or penalizes in its algorithms. All other social media platforms are equally intransparent, what is new is that TikTok is not American.

  • misja1114 hours ago
    > according to TechCrunch, this language has been included in the privacy policy since Aug. 2024, and wasn’t changed in response to the Trump administration’s latest escalation of immigration enforcement, and is “primarily there to comply with state privacy laws like California’s Consumer Privacy Act.”

    This is the problem with any kind of censoring media. The initial intentions of those policies might have been good, but these kind of policies can so easily be abused for malign intentions.

  • b65e8bee43c2ed04 hours ago
    those who were OK with malinformation being suppressed by every platform for two years (from 2020-02 to 2022-02) should be OK with this as well.
  • 4 hours ago
    undefined
  • self_awareness4 hours ago
    This is so American.

    They raise alarms because they have low TikTok view counters. But mass killings of Iranian protesters is Iran's own business.

  • bjourne4 hours ago
    The whole point of the forced sale of TikTok was for the American-Israeli hegemony to exert control over the narrative of the platform. And now it is doing exactly that. Color me surprised.
    • krapp3 hours ago
      No no no no no, it was because TikTok was owned by the CCP and was literally and directly controlling the minds of millions of people and indoctrinating them with communist propaganda, turning them against the United States.

      You may have gone onto the platform and seen nothing but the same sort of vapid memes as anywhere else, but you see that's just how insidious and clever those Chinese are.

      We're not exerting control over the narrative, we're protecting the truth from foreign influence.

      There is no genocide in ba sing se.

  • stanislavb4 hours ago
    Get used to it. Both TikTok and X(twitter) have been used and will be used to manipulate the public opinion in favour of Trump. I'm aware that I can't prove it; however, this explains how Trump won, and how he will win again - manipulating the zombies.
  • blell4 hours ago
    Wait until you try to criticise Israel.
  • jauntywundrkind4 hours ago
    pretty impressive how quickly Ellisons managed to make this whole situation suck and reek badly. they'll turn down the heat & stuff the frog back in the pot, then crank the heat up a bit slower this time, but there is just going to be such endless utterly preposterous censorship and algorithmic biasing for the right wing & ultra capitalist agenda, on and on now.

    incredible beyond words that this was a unanimous decision by the supreme court. letting the us government set up whatever arraigned marriage it felt like for buying a social network is some wild meddling with businesses. and here we are, with the ultra capitalists doing exactly what they want to with one of the most popular social networks.

    excellent write up for this absolute madness of a court decision, TikTok v. Garland and the First Amendment Anticanon by Evelyn Douek, https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=6118706

    • 0x3f4 hours ago
      Capitalism is when bad things happen. And the more badder they are the more capitalism it is!
      • tormeh4 hours ago
        I don't think the parent said it was. This is clearly closer to mercantilism, given the degree of government involvement.
        • 0x3f4 hours ago
          They've claimed this is the result of or at the behest of 'ultra capitalism'. I don't even mind hyperbole--call it fascism if you want--but at least use the dimensionally-correct terms. This is like when people call everything 'neoliberal'.
          • orwin2 hours ago
            Isn't neoliberal just Friedman and the Chicago boyz' liberalism? So policies enacted by Reagan, Pinochet and Thatchers?
            • 0x3fan hour ago
              Sort of and to varying degrees. Neoliberal is a funny one because it's used as a thoughtless pejorative by both the left and right.

              I've heard people say housing policy has failed because it's too neoliberal meaning too free market, and then other people say it's failed because it's too neoliberal i.e. too much government intervention.

              Neoliberalism is basically just markets-by-default and evidence-based alternatives when they fail.

      • keybored4 hours ago
        This was the logic the West used throughout the life of the Soviet Union but for [Cc]ommunism.
        • 0x3f4 hours ago
          Arguably people still do this with 'socialism'. Calling everything communism is now a bit _too_ cliche.
      • scotty794 hours ago
        I recently saw an interesting explanation. The point was, that capitalism is not (just) an economical system. It's a system of power in which capital can (and almost always does) overrule everything else. If you take this stance, capitalism is to blame for all the good and bad things that happen in the capitalist country. Democracy is just the way how capital rules.
        • 0x3f4 hours ago
          Aren't all country-scale (economic, governance, etc.) systems also 'systems of power'? It's not like the most powerful people of the USSR didn't leverage that system.

          Whatever the rules are, people end up adapting to and gaming them to entrench and grow their own position, typically at the expense of everyone else.

        • keybored4 hours ago
          > It's a system of power in which capital can (and almost always does) overrule everything else. ... Democracy is just the way how capital rules.

          That’s a contradiction.

          • filoelevenan hour ago
            “It comes from a very ancient democracy, you see..."

            "You mean, it comes from a world of lizards?"

            "No," said Ford, who by this time was a little more rational and coherent than he had been, having finally had the coffee forced down him, "nothing so simple. Nothing anything like so straightforward. On its world, the people are people. The leaders are lizards. The people hate the lizards and the lizards rule the people."

            "Odd," said Arthur, "I thought you said it was a democracy."

            "I did," said Ford. "It is."

            "So," said Arthur, hoping he wasn't sounding ridiculously obtuse, "why don't people get rid of the lizards?"

            "It honestly doesn't occur to them," said Ford. "They've all got the vote, so they all pretty much assume that the government they've voted in more or less approximates to the government they want."

            "You mean they actually vote for the lizards?"

            "Oh yes," said Ford with a shrug, "of course."

            "But," said Arthur, going for the big one again, "why?"

            "Because if they didn't vote for a lizard," said Ford, "the wrong lizard might get in. Got any gin?"

            - Douglas Adams, Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy

          • scotty793 hours ago
            Depends on how you understand democracy.

            It's a contradiction only if you understand democracy as a theoretical ideal. Practical democracies, as implemented in western countries, in recent decades proven themselves to be completely controllable by capital, both the democratic elites and democratic masses.

            I think we should rather go with practical outcome not the stated theoretical ideas. It's also a good way of evaluating communism and probably other systems.

            • keyboredan hour ago
              I see we are going with the definition of democracy where it is one in the headlines and stops being one if you go into the text or interrogate it.
      • BigglesB4 hours ago
        I’m reading “ultra-capitalists” here as “those that control an extreme proportion of capital” rather than “those who believe really strongly in capitalism as a system”, though tbf that venn diagram may well be a donut…
        • 0x3f4 hours ago
          Technically, Venn Diagrams don't show _degree_ of overlap :)

          Although re your actual point: the current admin only gifts things like this to a chosen few; a small subset of those with extreme capital. So it seems much more appropriate to call it cronyism, or some such thing, rather than capitalism in the sense of merely controlling capital.

          • filoelevenan hour ago
            Crony capitalism is a well-established term for a reason.
  • krautburglar4 hours ago
    That a handful of private companies (of which, Ellison has big investments in several) have cornered the market on NAND and DRAM -- with some sources saying that these reservations extend into 2029 -- should be far more concerning. They're sprinting toward super-intelligence, while potential competitors can't even buy equipment. Both pro-immigrant and anti-immigrant arguments will seem fatuous when we are all slaves.
  • rvnx5 hours ago
    Happening because TikTok is under US laws. Use https://www.douyin.com/ then.

    And if they wouldn’t, they would be blocked or prevented of doing business in the US.

    • SanjayMehta5 hours ago
      Laws? Rules based order.
    • saubeidl4 hours ago
      US laws, hmm.

      Wasn't there something about an amendment to their constitution? I believe it might've even been the first? Something about freedom of speech?

      Maybe I'm just misremembering, but I could've sworn conservatives kept harping on about it.

      • defrost4 hours ago
        The Constitution is silent on the matter of the cutting room floor and Ellison lawnmowers.

        It only restricts the Federal government (later extended to state governments IIRC?)

        This is one of many reasons Federal government is now partnered with private business.

      • 0xy4 hours ago
        Did you have the same concerns when Biden's DoJ was colluding with social media to censor narratives they didn't like politically?

        https://judiciary.house.gov/media/press-releases/google-admi...

        • filoelevenan hour ago
          You mean "politely asking social media to censor narratives, with the implied force of the federal government if they choose not to comply." Which every administration has done since social media became a thing.
      • joe_mamba4 hours ago
        [flagged]
        • 0x3f4 hours ago
          Generally speaking, threats and calls to violence are legal. Only a subset are illegal.
          • joe_mamba4 hours ago
            [flagged]
            • 0x3f4 hours ago
              Possibly the police will come bother you, but you're not being convicted.
            • SilverElfin4 hours ago
              You should use Google and try to understand what the person you’re replying to is saying. Because they’re correct and there’s a nuance to it under the law.
  • pavlov5 hours ago
    Ellison’s Murdoch killer flexing its muscles for a mild warmup.

    They got Paramount and CBS and TikTok, are allied with Twitter, and still have a chance of grabbing Warner.

    I don’t think American billionaires ever particularly liked Murdoch, an Australian, controlling so much of the media environment in their country. Maybe they’ll make an offer for Fox News that the Murdoch heirs can’t refuse.

  • gadders5 hours ago
    Maybe no-one is interested in celebrities virtual signalling any more?
    • jesseendahl4 hours ago
      Finneas (Billie Eilish's brother) isn't one for virtue signaling from what I've seen over the years from his posts. He keeps it very real and down to earth as far as celebrities go.
    • gambiting4 hours ago
      Since when is speaking out against fascism virtue signalling? Like, how bad does it have to get before it's just speaking out against the attrocities happening around us and not virtue signalling? Or are celebrities just flat out not allowed to do it?
      • 4 hours ago
        undefined
      • joe_mamba4 hours ago
        [flagged]
        • chimprich4 hours ago
          > Because if it were actual fascism, like the Hitler/Mussolini kind, you'd be arrest/dead the moment you spoke anything against it.

          It looks like you have paramilitaries roaming your streets - not wearing ID or proper uniforms, covering their faces to avoid identification, not answering to usual democratic controls - executing protestors.

          In the latest incident, they seemed to be beating and spraying a woman with a chemical agent for filming them, and then executing a bystander who tried to help her. The regime then tried to deny reality and falsely claim that they'd attacked said paramilitary operatives.

          In any Western democracy (and I'm not sure if the US is currently part of that category) there would be a public investigation, but they seem to have been squirrelled away and the politicians who have spoken out about it have been threatened.

          This all seems to be fascistic by any reasonable standard.

          • gadders4 hours ago
            >>covering their faces to avoid identification

            Covering their faces to avoid doxing and being attacked at their homes.

          • joe_mamba4 hours ago
            >not wearing ID or proper uniforms

            Really? Is that why they have vests with labels that say "POLICE FEDERAL AGENT" front and back? Maybe literacy is an issue.

            > covering their faces to avoid identification

            Same reason SWAT and special forces covering their faces. Because just like them, ICE arrests and deports violent criminals, cartel members, human traffickers, etc. Dangerous people that could identify their faces and then track down and kill their families in retaliation, exactly what lib-dem ANTIFA & co anarchists would love to do to them if they could see their faces.

            And also then, why are the "protesters" assaulting them covering their faces as well if the good guys are supposed to show their faces and only bad guys cover their faces according to your logic?

            >In any Western democracy (and I'm not sure if the US is currently part of that category) there would be a public investigation

            Public investigations are meaningless now in this specific partisan case since the people have already made up their mind on who's guilty. So if the officer would be publicly investigated and then cleared, them dems would just say it was all rigged anyway.

            • chimprich4 hours ago
              > Really? That's why they have vests that say "POLICE FEDERAL AGENT" front and back ?

              The paramilitaries that executed Pretti are all wearing street clothing, and all wearing different clothing. They look like a mob.

              > Dangerous people that could identify their faces and kill their families in retaliation.

              Well that's convenient, because it also allows them to kill protestors or their families without any consequence.

              > Why are the protesters assaulting them covering their faces

              Pretti didn't assault them, and wasn't covering his face. He got executed anyway.

              • joe_mamba3 hours ago
                [flagged]
                • chimprich3 hours ago
                  > On top of which they have matching ICE issued vest with inscriptions.

                  It's a fascist theme to have paramilitaries not wearing uniforms. See for example the mukhabarat in Syria. It makes them more intimidating, because they look undisciplined, and adds confusion to protestors as to whether they are dealing with someone who is part of the legal system. Why on earth would they not be issued with uniforms?

                  > Yes, accidents like this will happen when you shove law enforcement officers with a gun on you.

                  Pretti did not shove any "law enforcement officers". The first physical contact is a shove on Pretti by one of them.

                  BBC did a frame by frame analysis: the first shove happens at approx 1:00 in this video. https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/l0057wmt/bbc-verify-an...

                  If you disagree, please provide a source.

                  The first time they seem to be aware that he has a firearm is when they disarm him, and the execution happens after that, so I don't see how that is relevant.

                  • joe_mamba3 hours ago
                    >they disarm him, and the execution happens after that,

                    You're leaving the part out where a gunshot is heard right before they "execute" him. The officers with their fingers on the trigger pointed at him during detainment, got scared of that gunshot and jumped on the trigger by accident. It's an unfortunate accident but not an execution. Read up the legal definition of execution. This is not it.

                    • saubeidl2 hours ago
                      He was shot eleven times to the back of his head.
                    • gambiting2 hours ago
                      I have literally never met anyone as delusional as you on HN. Your comments are just on the absolute edge of sanity, and the only hope I have is that you are an actual russian troll trying to sow discontent and not an actual real human that holds these beliefs earnestly.

                      It just leaves me wondering - how do you look yourself in the mirror each day? I guess it must be super easy if you just look at what happened there and think shooting a guy 11 times from close distance is an "accident".

                      • joe_mambaan hour ago
                        >I have literally never met anyone as delusional as you on HN.

                        Pot calling the kettle black.

                        >the only hope I have is that you are an actual russian troll

                        Yes, you are not the minority opinion, you are 100% correct and everyone disagreeing with you is a russian troll.

                • gambiting2 hours ago
                  >>There's etiquette when dealing with police that people seem to have forgotten.

                  You are literally insane if you think this is a matter of "etiquette" or that it was an accident.

                  Essex police haven't fired a single bullet in the last 10 years, and they are able to provide effective policing anyway. But in US a bunch of gestapo officers have a man pinned to the ground, with his gun taken away, and then they shoot him?

                  At least the real gestapo had the decency to ask you to stand against the wall looking away before they executed you.

                  As I asked you in another comment - do you want to live in a Judge Dredd universe where officers can just execute someone like this? And I repeat, it's not an accident. If it was, they would have shot him once.

                  • joe_mambaan hour ago
                    >Essex police haven't fired a single bullet in the last 10 years, and they are able to provide effective policing anyway.

                    Only if you misreport crime, ignore grooming gangs and arrest people for Tweets as "effective policing" in the UK.

                    >And I repeat, it's not an accident. If it was, they would have shot him once.

                    Police are trained to always fire multiple shots, as learned from firefight reports, people are left in capacity to fire back even when they have several rounds in them.

                    • filoelevenan hour ago
                      > people are left in capacity to fire back even when they have several rounds in them.

                      And when there are 8 people on top of them, they're facedown on the ground, their hands are stuck in front of their face with no way to get at the waistband in which they had a legally concealed firearm, which one ICE officer removes while another waits for him to be out of the way before another executes them?

                      • joe_mamba23 minutes ago
                        You're assuming officers have the time to rationalize all this thought process in the split second when another officer shouts "GUN!" and then one starts shooting leading to everyone shooting out of inertia.

                        People got shot from police mistakes like these all the time. It's an accident, a bad one, but not an execution, as everyone on the left calls it.

                • filoelevenan hour ago
                  Fuck off. Police are the ones with the weapons, they need to be properly trained on how to use them.

                  Citizens have no duty to cooperate with police in their investigations. Citizens have first, fourth, and fifth amendment rights. I suspect that your idea of "being uncooperative" includes "following unlawful orders."

                  • joe_mambaan hour ago
                    >Fuck off.

                    Thanks, good to see great mental clarity and debate skills.

                    > includes "following unlawful orders."

                    Except the judge decides if the order was unlawful, not you.

                    You don't get to decide on the spot that the order you received was unlawful and can just resist arrest if you feel like it.

                    You cooperate with the orders, and then your lawyer will seek justice and compensation on your behalf is the way the officer handled himself was unlawful. That's the way it works.

        • rsynnott4 hours ago
          > Because if it were actual fascism, like the Hitler/Mussolini kind, you'd be arrest/dead the moment you spoke anything against it.

          This is... a pretty confused view of history, really. Hitler became Chancellor in 1933, and consolidated power over the next year. At this point there was a lot of criticism of the regime, both internal and external. Things got rapidly worse after, of course, but there certainly was a period where the Nazis were in power but that there was public criticism.

          Even as late as 1938, there was significant public discontent RE Kristallnacht in particular.

          • joe_mamba4 hours ago
            >but that there was public criticism

            Every political party had public criticism before they could gain absolute power to silence that criticism.

            • rsynnottan hour ago
              Hitler had absolute power by 1934. Public dissent wasn't really entirely quashed until the war.
            • saubeidl3 hours ago
              Exactly. You're disproving your own argument now.
              • joe_mamba3 hours ago
                How so? When I said "every political party" meaning including the ones under the liberal democratic umbrella.
                • saubeidl2 hours ago
                  Yes, but also the ones on the way to authoritarianism, as was argued the Trump regime is.

                  Thus, currently allowing some criticism is not enough to disprove the alleged march towards fascism. People with that viewpoint would argue that it's only allowed because power isn't consolidated enough yet.

                  • joe_mambaan hour ago
                    >Yes, but also the ones on the way to authoritarianism, as was argued the Trump regime is.

                    Democrats/leftists/ANTIFA don't hate authoritarianism, They hate that they're not the ones in charge of dealing the authoritarianism on their opposition, as shown by the masked mob gestapo they set up in Minnesota doing "papers please, you're either with us or against us" on civilians passing by to confirm they hate ICE.

                    If Kamala-Walz would have won the election, they would have done the same to Trump and friends in republican states, and you would have called it "justice for Nazis", not fascism ,which is the justification ANTIFA use when they beat up innocent people.

                    • filoelevenan hour ago
                      > as shown by the masked mob gestapo they set up in Minnesota doing "papers please, you're either with us or against us" on civilians passing by to confirm they hate ICE.

                      [citation needed]

                      Also even if true, there's a vast difference between a rando on the street asking those questions vs a government agent. That's assuming the government agent isn't too much of a pussy to identify himself instead of hiding behind a mask.

                      • joe_mambaan hour ago
                        >[citation needed]

                        If I show you camera footage on X of this happening will you accept it in good faith or nitpick it on why it's not valid?

                        >Also even if true, there's a vast difference between a rando on the street asking those questions vs a government agent.

                        Ah classic, so even if it's happening, it's not a bad thing because an unelected unaccountable mob is doing it, just like in third world countries.

                        • filoelevenan hour ago
                          If you show me the evidence, I will examine it. That may include examining the surrounding context if it's not blatantly obvious.
                    • saubeidl32 minutes ago
                      Antifa doesn't beat up innocent people, it does society a service by beating up fascists.

                      It's in the name, antifascists. They rose from the fascism of the 20th century and have a proud history of fighting the original Nazis.

                      God bless them for carrying on the good fight!

                      • joe_mamba11 minutes ago
                        So if I call myself anti-fascist and label you as a fascist, I am then legally allowed to mask up and beat you up or kill you because anti-fascism is in my name and that's doing god's work? Average HN liberal logic right here.

                        Curious what if you were to get hit by the same type of vigilante justice you approve of, and someone dishes out this type of punishment on you for fitting their definition of a fascist in their now prevailing worldview. As they say, "Live by the sword, die by the sword".

                        Like I said before, you don't hate fascists, you want to be the fascist and use labels to justify literal crime, just like fascists did.

        • curt154 hours ago
          Fascism takes hold in stages; Nazi Germany didn't go from 0 to 100 in one day. You have to nip it in the bud before it grows up.

          Right now, ICE goes out of their way to beat and arrest protestors and steal their cameras. They're not yet mowing them down but by that time it would be a little late to do something about their conduct. Remember that the current US president admires how the CCP crushed the student protestors in Tiananmen square with tanks and guns.

          • joe_mamba4 hours ago
            >You have to nip it in the bud before it grows up.

            Sure, but if you use fascist tactics to fight fascism, are you not a fascist yourself?

            And people conveniently focus only on the symptoms(rise of fascism) but not on the main cause that leads to it.

            Like Hitler didn't just randomly get to power one day out of nowhere because the average German citizen was living such a good life. He was just one of the symptoms to a major problem that the Weimar republic didn't address and instead used fascist tactics to get rid of Hitler before he could gain power, and then guess what happened.

            Similarly, Trump is also only but a symptom to a larger issue. Using fascist tactics to get him out of power, only makes the counter response greeter, and not make the core problem go away.

            • WickyNilliams3 hours ago
              What fascist tactics did they use to get rid of Hitler? If you're referring to his time in prison, he was put there because he staged a putsch.

              Beyond that, much of the establishment and industry tried to work with him using a softly, softly approach. They thought they could steer him, temper him, leverage his popularity for their own ends. Of course, that didn't work out for them

              • joe_mamba3 hours ago
                >What fascist tactics did they use to get rid of Hitler?

                  November 1921 (Munich): During a speech at an NSDAP rally in a beer hall, an unknown assailant fired shots at Hitler from the crowd amid a melee, but he escaped unharmed. 
                
                  1923 (Thuringia): An unidentified person attempted to shoot Hitler during a rally, but Nazi supporters outnumbered opponents, forcing the attacker to flee. 
                
                  1923 (Memmingen): Another unknown individual tried to assassinate Hitler with a rifle but retreated when confronted by his followers. 
                
                  July 15, 1932 (Munich): An assailant fired shots at Hitler and SA leader Ernst Röhm while they dined at Cafe Heck, but both were unhurt. 
                
                  1932 (Nuremberg): A bomb was planted in the lobby of Hitler's hotel, but it was discovered and removed before detonation. 
                
                  1932 (Berlin and Munich): Two additional attempts occurred, one involving potential poisoning at the Hotel Kaiserhof in Berlin (where Hitler and staff fell ill after a meal, suspected to be deliberate contamination), though details are limited and perpetrators unidentified.
                • dudefeliciano43 minutes ago
                  at what point do you start to question your worldview, when you are actively complaining about the "fascist tactics" used by people who tried to kill Hitler himself?
                • WickyNilliams3 hours ago
                  Attempted assassinations by unidentified lone wolves, spread out over decades, are not "fascist" tactics. Obviously they are very bad for a political climate, but I think that's stretching the definition beyond any use.

                  You originally implied the Weimar Republic itself used fascistic tactics. But your examples show nothing of the sort (and are obviously just an LLM dump, which disinclines me to continue this conversation)

                  • joe_mamba3 hours ago
                    >unidentified lone wolves

                    Yes, I'm sure they were lone wolves who happen to have massive resources for political assassinations, and not backed by hitler's political opposition. Please, let's end the conversation here since it's clearly not going anywhere.

                    • WickyNilliams2 hours ago
                      You listed a handful of failed attempts that didn't come anywhere near to being successful. Where are the massive resources? What's the evidence for massive resources? And where's the evidence that these attempts were organised by political opponents at state level?
        • saubeidl4 hours ago
          Like Alex Pretti?
          • joe_mamba4 hours ago
            [flagged]
            • saagarjha4 hours ago
              Maybe we shouldn’t have a system where these happen.
              • joe_mamba4 hours ago
                [flagged]
                • saubeidl4 hours ago
                  You think the appropriate punishment for interfering with a simple administrative act is gunshots to the back of the head? Are you even reading what you're saying???
                  • joe_mamba4 hours ago
                    Police have the right to defend themselves if they fear for their lives. It was terrible accident indeed that could have been voided if he'd not physically interfere or have a gun on him.
                    • saubeidl4 hours ago
                      Defend themselves from the already pinned down person that never drew a gun by shooting him to the back of the head?

                      Think about what you're saying. You're trying to defend the indefensible.

                      • joe_mamba3 hours ago
                        Police heard a gunshot and pulled the trigger by accident. Hence unfortunate accident.
                        • saubeidl3 hours ago
                          Pulled the trigger by accident eleven times???

                          Come on man, don't debase yourself like this.

                          • joe_mambaan hour ago
                            Yes, police are trained to always fire multiple shots at threats.
                            • saubeidl34 minutes ago
                              Again, not police. Armed goons.
            • saubeidl4 hours ago
              Shooting somebody that is already constrained is an execution, not an accident.

              It's what fascist regimes do to anyone they deem noncompliant.

              • joe_mamba4 hours ago
                [flagged]
                • saubeidl4 hours ago
                  Nobody assaulted anyone. Shooting somebody that is already on the ground in the back of their head is not self defence. ICE is not law enforcement.

                  Impressively, you managed to misrepresent a fact with every single word in your sentence.

        • ErroneousBosh4 hours ago
          You have government-backed thugs with guns running around murdering people who take photos of them.

          You have something that looks worryingly like the Ceaușescu's Securitate "disappearing" citizens - including a little 5-year-old boy - off the streets.

          Justify that.

          Justify kidnapping a terrified little boy who should be at school with his friends, and locking him up in prison.

          Go on, justify those actions. Let's see if you can.

          • gadders4 hours ago
            ICE looked after the 5 year old boy after his father ran off and left him.
          • joe_mamba4 hours ago
            [flagged]
            • ErroneousBosh2 hours ago
              Thing is, his dad is not a criminal and did not run off, but was chased away by armed thugs, and his mum did not refuse to take him but was prevented from taking him by armed thugs.

              You have armed thugs abducting and murdering people on the streets of American cities.

            • gambiting2 hours ago
              I mean, there is a victim of false propaganda here, but I think that's you, especially given your other comments.

              "Stenvik said another adult living in the home was outside during the encounter and had pleaded to take care of Liam so the boy could avoid detention, but was denied. Liam’s older brother, a middle schooler, came home 20 minutes later to find his father and brother missing, Stenvik said. Two school principals from the district also arrived at the home to offer support."

              " An agent had taken Liam out of the car, led the boy to his front door and directed him to knock on the door asking to be let in, “in order to see if anyone else was home – essentially using a five-year-old as bait”, the superintendent said in a statement."

              https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2026/jan/21/ice-arrests-...

              Again, how do you look yourself in the mirror every morning?

        • callamdelaney4 hours ago
          [flagged]
  • deanc5 hours ago
    Poor celebrities. Having their voice stifled by foreign governments on a platform they helped promote.
    • MrGilbert5 hours ago
      It's their own government, at least for US citizens since TikTok was forced to sell their business in the US.
    • sorbusherra4 hours ago
      voice stifled by oracle inc you mean?
    • BoredPositron5 hours ago
      First, they’re screaming OH, THE HUMANITY! over censorship before their favorite puppets take the wheel. Then, they’re the first ones ridiculing anyone else for complaining about the exact same thing.
    • libertine5 hours ago
      You're missing the point, celebrities just happen to have a huge reach and noticed the reach being cut.

      This probably means everyone else is also getting their reach crippled.

      Remember that even with clear video evidence, the administration lies about the events and tries to spin it as domestic terrorism.

      So imagine what they are doing, and will do, without video evidence.

      This is probably one of the darkest times in America... You have an administration that normalizes lying and violence, and a tens of millions of Americans that are choosing to close their eyes and suspend their morals because they're scared and confused.

    • saubeidl5 hours ago
      It's being stifled by their own government. US TikTok has been taken over by a government-linked oligarch.
      • 2 hours ago
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