91 pointsby atropoles5 days ago15 comments
  • bm3719a day ago
    Was in one of those chain book stores recently and decided to stop by the philosophy section. It was tiny, only taking up part of a single shelf in a huge store. I was surprised to find about half of the titles were on Stoicism and closely-related topics. There were many pop-psych texts about applying Stoicism to modern life. I guess it's been having a moment? Interestingly, it was right next to the massive self-help section.

    I have a notion that both the ancient West and East experienced a chance to align with systems of thought that reject desire, either in part or whole. In the East, that was more successful and stuck around longer. Unfortunately for us, it remained a fringe notion (think how we would react to a modern Diogenes). However, we never completely forgot, flirting with similar ideas from the direction of Christian piety, the synthesis of Eastern thought that occurred in the counter-culture era, and the psychoanalytic frameworks of Lacan, Deleuze+Guattari, and others. Now that our desires are being exploited against us by the tech that mediates our very existence, it makes sense we would seek defense mechanisms. There's trillions of dollars of economic force out there creating, curating, and capturing desire. It's probably worth stepping back and asking how being embedded in that structure is actually affecting us and the degree it's aligned with our innate interests.

    • dkarla day ago
      In the west, we've had a long, deep split between what ordinary people rely on (religion and self-help) and respectable academic philosophy. Philosophy rooted in religion has a strict requirement to scale down to serve masses of people. Philosophy rooted in academia has a strict requirement to scale up to allow practitioners to flex their elite skills and show that they are worthy of scarce academic positions. Academic philosophers pay lip service to the idea that philosophy can and should be for everyone, but in practice, they shy away from anything that could compromise their primary pursuit of a career and academic prestige.

      As a result, they mostly respond to efforts to reach a lay audience by distancing and criticizing. They are really harsh on the compromises inherent in meeting lay audiences where they are.

      • OkayPhysicist18 hours ago
        That's a pretty weak take. The difference between philosophy texts on ethics and the better self-help texts are just the difference between pulp fiction and classic novels. Time needs to pass before anybody is willing to go "actually, this is worth analyzing". That said, there's a lot of self-help that isn't philosophical (or, more exactly, don't attempt to defend the philosophy that they present the conclusions of).

        Consider the difference between. "Thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not commit adultry" and "you shouldn't kill or sleep with your neighbor's wife because both actions cause more harm than they provide benefit, which ought be our goal because the conclusions of such a cost/benefit analysis closely align to most people's natural sense of right and wrong". The former is a statement of morals. If you include the "...because God said so, and God is always right", then it becomes an ethical argument, like the second. The key is arguing the why down to axioms, and defending those axioms as superior to other axioms.

        A self-help book like "How to win friends and influence people" provides rules to follow, to achieve a desired outcome, and attempts to explain why the rules work. It doesn't spend much, if any (it's been a while) energy arguing why you should want the desired outcome, or if the desired outcome is actually a good thing.

      • IrishTechiea day ago
        That seems like a rather cynical take. I think you’re conflating philosophy as guidance for how to live (stoicism etc) and philosophy as more of a science to explore unanswered questions, which are naturally going to have very different practitioners and audiences?
        • dkarla day ago
          The latter can be applicable to the former. Traditionally the connection was acknowledged, with Socrates the prototype of the philosopher who believed that happiness, ethical living, and philosophy were inextricably linked. Obviously philosophy has come a long way since Socrates, but academic philosophers continue to give lip service to the idea that philosophy can be valuable in everyday living, if not in ethics then in processing information, critiquing arguments, and understanding the origins and limitations of ideas.
          • jjk166a day ago
            I think we've known since the time of Socrates that the practice of philosophy is not the practice of happy living. Philosophers tend to be miserable. Socrates himself chose to drink poison over moving to a different city. I think most philosophies, despite their myriad differences, agree that what people tend to want is not what philosophy will give them. Maybe some of the answers philosophy yields can be applied to increase happiness, but philosophy in practice tends to produce questions.
            • dkarla day ago
              Most philosophers would not agree that yielding questions instead of answers makes philosophy unhelpful, nor that the happiest life is necessarily the one in which pain is most successfully avoided.
    • V__a day ago
      Ryan Holiday has really popularized Stoicism in the last decade.
    • layer819 hours ago
      Stoicism has had a bit of a revival since the early 2010s: https://www.google.com/search?udm=14&q=stoicism+before:2015
    • 2026012603262419 hours ago
      Christian thought remains diametrically opposed to Eastern philosophies, at least when it comes to religion. Rejecting desire in an attempt at eternal life is quite different from wanting to escape existence as a whole and return to non-existence.
    • Wonderfully put.
    • intalentivea day ago
      Strictures which successfully regulated desire crystallized over the ages into particular forms of tradition and morality. Hence early conservatives like Carlyle and Chesterton were anti-capitalist: they saw the economics of desire as a corrosive force that would break down and nullify the experience of centuries as encoded in customs, tradition and other social bonds.
  • An "enchiridion" is a manual or primer. Interestingly, in both ancient and modern Greek, ἐγχειρίδιον / εγχειρίδιο also means "dagger." Because both a small manual and a dagger were things that could fit comfortably in (εγχ / εν) your hand (χείρ / χέρι).

    Not all that relevant to Epictetus, just wanted to add a little linguistic note.

    • wincya day ago
      So the more accurate English word for enchiridion in the book sense is probably handbook?
      • Sure. Though "manual" actually shares the same kind of root as well (from Latin "manus" [= hand]).
    • pinnochioa day ago
      Interesting. I thought it was a new menu item from Taco Bell.
      • quercusa20 hours ago
        Still thinking about those three black olive slices?
  • 0xmattfa day ago
    Absolutely love this book. The discourses are great reads as well.

    It's wild how the human psyche barely changed since the time of Epictetus.

    P.S. If you're a follower of Stoicism, I've been working on a community platform/forum: https://stoacentral.com (there's still a lot of work to be done, but I've been pushing along).

  • tasukia day ago
    I made a website for comparing the translations: https://enchiridion.tasuki.org/
    • layer819 hours ago
      It would be nice to have a gradual highlighting of the differences.
    • nicwolff18 hours ago
      Wow, instant bookmark. Thanks!
    • Archelaosa day ago
      Ever considered to add the Greek text?
      • 0xmattfa day ago
        It looks like the Greek text is there. You have to click "Compare Translations" on the top left -> Top Result.
        • Archelaos21 hours ago
          Very nice. I missed that, because I expected that "Compare Translations" would highlight differences and thus did not check it out.
          • 0xmattf20 hours ago
            For sure. I found it by mistake. I was just trying to get to the homepage by clicking the menu icon.
  • ZeroGravitasa day ago
  • Archelaosa day ago
    The Perseus Project has a more advanced presentation of the text (including the Teubner edtion), for those interested: https://scaife.perseus.org/library/urn:cts:greekLit:tlg0557....
  • bigstrat2003a day ago
    I have read this and love it. Besides being good practical advice, it's fun to read just how sassy Epictetus could be with his students. He doesn't hesitate to call people fools when they deserve it, and it makes him seem a lot more human and relatable as a result.
  • AlfredBarnesa day ago
    I enjoyed this book greatly, I do not enjoy how Stoicism has become the basic meaning of philosophy.

    Meditations is also a decent read.

  • Jun8a day ago
    Related: Sorry, but as an AT fan I couldn't resist: https://adventuretime.fandom.com/wiki/The_Enchiridion_(book)
  • I am actually exited to read this.
  • rramadass12 hours ago
    Epictetus' Handbook and the Tablet of Cebes: Guides to Stoic Living by Keith Seddon; has the first detailed modern commentary on The Enchiridion in over 1500 years. The book is positioned for both the general reader and academics with background notes, detailed commentary and explanations.

    Every student of Stoic Philosophy should read this - https://www.routledge.com/Epictetus-Handbook--and-the-Tablet...

  • popalchemist13 hours ago
    Everyone should read this at least once. It's practical, grounded, and still relevant.
  • brumar21 hours ago
    My favorite book.
  • augusteoa day ago
    bm3719's observation about Stoicism as a defense mechanism resonates with me. I've found it genuinely useful, not as self-help packaged for tech bros, but as practical mental infrastructure.

    The core idea is simple. You separate what you can control from what you can't. Then you stop burning energy on the second category. Easier said than done, but the framework helps.

    I keep coming back to "How to Think Like a Roman Emperor" as a practical companion to the original texts. It's Marcus Aurelius filtered through modern psychology, with concrete exercises instead of just principles.

    The danger is treating Stoicism as emotional suppression. It's not. It's about choosing where to direct your attention and energy. That's genuinely useful when you're surrounded by systems designed to capture both.

    • zhouzhaoa day ago
      It's choose your battles
  • I read this in my early 20's and it had such a profound effect on me. It's so hard to truly put it all into practice though.