77 pointsby nicpottier3 hours ago13 comments
  • epistasis2 hours ago
    > “Enforcement of the law will continue. The memes will continue.”

    The Whitehouse thinks digitally altering photos of people it arrests is a "meme"?

    That's just as perverted an understanding of a "meme" as their understanding of "law". Namely: the law protects but does but bind the in-group, and binds but does not protect those in the out-group. Thus the January 6 insurrectionists get pardons, and the killer of Renee Good has the automatic internal investigation cancelled.

    "Meme" my ass.

    • JumpCrisscross2 hours ago
      > Whitehouse thinks digitally altering photos of people it arrests is a "meme"?

      It’s made to go viral. They’re signaling intent. This is where algorithmic, ad-fueled social media leads a republic.

    • spwa42 hours ago
      Well if they're altered photos ... then it's really more like "lying will continue", isn't it?
  • JumpCrisscross2 hours ago
    During France’s Reign of Terror, executions by guillotine were public. It was considered distinguished for victims to go stoically, and many did, which left the crowds to have their fun.

    I recall, however, and this may be apocryphal, that one woman went to the stand screaming and crying and begging for mercy. This humanized her. The crowds, soured to their revelry, went home.

    I am curious if her pleas were heard because those people were better than we are today, or because social media amplifies our cruelty beyond even that of our darkest modern histories.

    • justonceokay2 hours ago
      Social media makes things further away. It allows the callous of the inner city to grow over the heart of the most rural peasant. It democratizes a kind of mental illness that used to only affect famous Hollywood stars.

      But this is all irrelevant to the article at hand

      • JumpCrisscross2 hours ago
        > this is all irrelevant to the article at hand

        I don’t think it is. The White House describes the image as a meme because it’s designed to go viral. It’s made for the algorithms to boost to specific audiences.

    • spwa42 hours ago
      During France's Reign of Terror, the line towards the guillotine is rumored to have been over 4 kilometers long. 30% of Paris died. This done to kill the bourgeoisie, despite that over 90% of those executed didn't hold any titles. It turned into a massacre, and was replicated across France. The son of the king was locked up at age 8, alone, until he died, before his 11th birthday. The youngest person actually guillotined was 13 years old.

      ... I don't think there was much "humanizing" going on at all.

      • touwer2 hours ago
        Bs. I live in Paris. There is no evidence at all of 4 km or your other claims. The total number of executions in France during the Reign of Terror is estimated at around 16,000 to 40,000, with about 2,600 to 3,000 executions in Paris alone. Paris's population at the time was roughly 600,000, so the percentage of Parisians who died by execution was closer to 0.5%, not 30%.
      • throwaway91827an hour ago
        Revolutionary terror in 1789 wasn't about killing the Bourgeisie- the French Revolution was a Bourgeois revolution- the Revolution was about overthrowing the Aristocracy, the nobles, the people with, as you say, titles- Being Bourgeois generally meant that you're common-born but well-educated and moneyed.

        The fact that the Bourgeois of France were growing in real power, but completely unrepresented in the formal political systems in France, was one of the major pressure points that caused the entire system to explode into Revolutionary violence.

        I think you're right to point out the irony that revolutionary violence mostly affected the common man, and not the aristocracy, but the "enemies of the revolution" were nobles, clergy, and their sympathizers (perceived or otherwise), not "the bourgeoisie".

        Proletarian revolutions against the Bourgeois don't really happen until there IS an urban proletariat in the first place- in pre-industrial 1789, the bourgeois and the sans-culottes were grouped together socially in the "Third Estate".

      • JumpCrisscross2 hours ago
        Oh I don’t mean to humanize the Reign. I’m just saying that even in those depths of depravity, tears were recognized for what they were, at least once, perhaps, again, apocryphally. The notion that tears would inflame an audience to more violence is interesting juxtaposed against that.
  • Havoc2 hours ago
    It’s the likely intent here that is most alarming.

    Don’t think anyone would care if they photoshopped something ugly or inconvenient out of a picture.

    This is signally more “look we’re traumatising people” which means they think there is an audience that wants to see that. Dark AF

  • myrmidon3 hours ago
    Having the government manipulate mass-media material is frankly insane.

    Everyone involved in something like this should be sacked immediately, but I have very little hope that voters are going to punish egregious misbehavior like this as long as it's "their" side doing it.

    If you had told republican voters in 2016 that within the decade, there were going to be widespread searches/arrests by federal agents without warrant or trial, unapologetic image falsification by the White House and even killings of unarmed civilian protesters: They would have gone absolutely ballistic- rightfully so.

    • NickC252 hours ago
      >They would have gone absolutely ballistic- rightfully so

      Sadly, I disagree here. They would have qualified their reaction by asking who would be in power. If it was a GOP held white house, they'd probably rationalize it and say it's good.

      Partisanship rot goes very deep on the republican side. Granted, the democrats suck, but the republicans fall in line every time without question.

      • mysterydip2 hours ago
        As someone who has a largely republican family, ironically they say the same thing: “the republicans suck, but the democrats fall in line every time without question.”
        • HaZeustan hour ago
          While a generalization has the flaws of being, well, a generalization; I've noticed that this trope is at least more true than not when you qualify what TYPE of Democrats and Republicans you're talking about.

          I think one is true of the representatives - Democrat constituents generally fall in line without question; whereas I think the other is true of the people - Republican voters generally fall in line without question.

          The rot is deep for the constituents on either side, however. There's a LOT of incentive to preserve party/ideological status quo regardless of where you land.

    • Someone2 hours ago
      > Having the government manipulate mass-media material is frankly insane.

      It’s repeating history. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_of_images_in_the_So... with, for example

      “On May 5, 1920, Lenin gave a famous speech to a crowd of Soviet troops in Sverdlov Square, Moscow. In the foreground were Leon Trotsky and Lev Kamenev. The photo was later altered and both were removed by censors.”

    • 2 hours ago
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    • jameskilton2 hours ago
      No, they wouldn't, because they didn't care when this happened during Trump's first term, Trump said this would happen during his 2nd term, AND THEY STILL VOTED FOR HIM.

      This is what America voted for.

    • dfxm122 hours ago
      The situation we're in today has obvious roots in the aftermath of 9/11 and the PATRIOT act, and the relative lack of voter outcry after the Snowden leaks. Voters seem all too glad to trade in freedom for fear of boogiemen & have a reverence for LEO that is wholly unearned. I honestly think the reaction would be closer to something like, "well, what did they do to deserve it?" (until it happens exactly to them, of course)
  • nomilk2 hours ago
    (very) Important to note this doesn't appear to be an attempt at passing off a digitally altered (/AI generated) image as real, but rather the creation of a digitally altered image with the intent of mocking the individual. When I stumbled across the altered photo I immediately knew it was a joke (i.e. had been created using AI), although I didn't notice it was created by the White House (although that wouldn't have made a difference).
    • shitter14 minutes ago
      Call me a relic of a bygone era of seriousness and decency, but I don't think the White House should be in the business of mocking individuals online, either. But I know we're well past that point.
    • nicpottier2 hours ago
      This photo did not scream AI to me but I'm not deep into internet trolling culture.

      I would love to be able to take photos that our government posts at face value.

      I find any defense of this kind of wild. These are the people in power? Even if it is a joke is this how we want the powerful treating us?

      • nomilk2 hours ago
        Rule of law is so important, and society (especially the vulnerable) suffers when weak leaders fail to enforce the law. That said, we can have our cake and eat it too - strong law enforcement (a la Singapore style) can occur without mocking wrong doers.
      • mingus882 hours ago
        I hope you understand that you have never been able to take photos the gov releases at face value.

        But today, we know this administration will openly lie, and double down in the face of any refutable proof. Literally since DAY ONE they tried to push a crowd size narrative that we all saw in real time was a lie.

    • 2 hours ago
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  • josefritzisherean hour ago
    The people in power are mentally ill.
  • krapp2 hours ago
    The cruelty is and has always been the point.
    • mingus882 hours ago
      If you have read anything about Fred Trump and how he ran the family that Donald grew up in, it’s clear that cruelty is the only thing Donald really understands.

      In fact, his rise to power in the Republican Party was primarily due to his ability to demean his opponents. He’s an insult comic, and enough people were fed up that they wanted this to happen.

  • Noaidi2 hours ago
    I just thought of a crazy analogy. I was on the internet in the mid 90's, using gopher and usenet, etc. It was great then because only the smart people knew how to get on. Then in the mid 00's it all went to sht.

    Now we come to graphic design. It used to be only smart people knew how to use photoshop to manipulate images, but now we have given any idiot the power to manipulate images with AI and this is where we are.

  • jrm42 hours ago
    Honestly, this should give hope for people worried about it. Not the fact that it was done, but the fact that the New York Times immediately posts about it. That's about the best you can ask for now that this tech is ubiquitous and not going back in the can.
    • nicpottier2 hours ago
      Yes, it was good this was caught and reported on. But this will become normalized and we seem to be sprinting full speed towards not being able to know what to believe. That the State is engaging in this is concerning to say the least.
    • acdha2 hours ago
      The problem is that the NYT won’t post about everything and a large number of people won’t see it when they do or will immediately dismiss it as “fake news” because it’s politically inconvenient.

      This is kind of like the difference between not polluting water and hoping that people will use filters.

    • LightBug12 hours ago
      Replying to this as a quadruple upvote ...

      Any lawyers in the USA getting off their assess to fight stuff like this? (Sorry if you are). There's the Good Law Project in the UK that takes up causes.

      • 2 hours ago
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  • zingababba2 hours ago
    Not really surprising. Boomers are finally going away. New order brings new way of doing things. 4chan tactics have gone mainstream.
    • mingus88an hour ago
      Boomers seem to be the most susceptible to AI fakes, from what I’ve seen