59 pointsby jonbecker2 hours ago7 comments
  • kwar13an hour ago
    This article lacks even the most basic understanding of probability and statistics. Slot machines "93 cents on the dollar" return is a statistical certainty of 7% loss. You are playing a repeated game which by the law of large numbers will converge to the 93% probability.

    In prediction markets if the markets are fully efficiently priced, in the absence of transaction costs you WILL get 100% back in the long run.

    Slots are also unskilled games, prediction markets clearly some participants have a clear market edge, thus not efficiently priced.

    • jjmarr3 minutes ago
      If you read the article:

      > Takers pay a structural premium for affirmative "YES" outcomes while Makers capture an "Optimism Tax" simply by selling into this biased flow.

      It's still operating like a casino in that there's a "house edge" that comes from taking bets. Unlike a casino, there is nothing stopping the average person from market making, which is why it doesn't make sense this structural inequality exists.

    • pjc5026 minutes ago
      So clearly the market isn't efficiently priced.
    • chinathrow16 minutes ago
      Do you work for a prediction market or do you participate in one?
    • 37 minutes ago
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    • kibwen31 minutes ago
      > In prediction markets if the markets are fully efficiently priced, in the absence of transaction costs you WILL get 100% back in the long run.

      This is basically equivalent to the observation that, in a perfectly efficient market, no entity can ever make a profit.

      And yet, in the real world, entities make profits all the time. In fact, they make wild, unimaginable, world-changing, history-altering profits. This is a tacit admission that our markets aren't even remotely efficient, and that includes predictions markets. Efficient, rational markets are the exception, not the rule.

      • Retric20 minutes ago
        You misunderstood a basic principle here.

        In a perfectly efficient market all entries can make the same profit on a given investment at the same level of risk and time horizon. There’s nothing inefficient about a market having a risk premium etc.

  • TaylorPhebilloan hour ago
    How do prediction markets account for interest rates? I feel like I should be willing to pay no more than ~96 cents for a contract that will definitely resolve to a dollar in a year. Who puts up the other 4 cents?
    • pants216 minutes ago
      Interest on open positions. Polymarket pays about 4.00% annualized holding rewards on eligible markets/positions (not all). Kalshi pays about 3.25% APY on cash plus open positions (collateral).
    • computerphagean hour ago
      The usual thing is that the market ends up around $0.95 for things like that, if the actors are all solid investors. It only takes one overly enthusiastic yes buyer to break that ceiling, the smart money won't "correct" it down to $0.95

      There's another idea, which is make contacts that pay out in shares of an ETF, but I haven't seen this idea put into practice

      • lowbattan hour ago
        that's correct. Also Kalshi does pay out interest on, and Poly does on a few markets
    • samvimes44 minutes ago
      Kalshi pays interest on open positions
  • LeifCarrotsonan hour ago
    I'm a little confused by the "Yes" versus "No" asymmetry.

    For example, one of the top trending ~~bets~~ markets right now is on whether Miami or Indiana will win the NCAA football championship tonight. You can either take "Yes" on Indiana at 74c, or "No" at 27c, or you can take "Yes" on Miami at 27c or "No" at 74c. Or, there's another potential outcome - you can also bet on a tie at 10c yes/91c no.

    Is this research suggesting that an optimistic Miami fan can somehow get a better return by buying "No" on Indiana than a "Yes" on Miami?

    Why is Kalshi structured with these yes vs. no options for all outcomes?

    • pants212 minutes ago
      Part of this perceived arbitrage is the fee structure. Kalshi has a weird transaction cost structure but taking advantage of that 1c arb probably costs you 2c in fees to Kalshi, so nobody does it.
    • postflopclarityan hour ago
      > Why is Kalshi structured with these yes vs. no options for all outcomes?

      it's basically how they do margin. otherwise you wouldn't be able to sell / post asks without already having a long position. for kalshi, it's actually one single security in the background they just present it as two order books (but really it's one). for polymarket, they are two distinct products that trade separately, and technically could have arbitrage between them. although in practice they're normally priced correctly to sum to 1 (or 1.01)

  • simonw31 minutes ago
    I'm getting some really skeezy ads for prediction markets on TikTok at the moment, the message is effectively "hey, are you broke? earn $50+/day on Kalshi!"
    • renewiltord22 minutes ago
      The Polymarket twitter accounts are massive ragebaiters. This is sports betting with some two minutes hate added in.

      I have to say I was this huge fan of the idea and I didn’t anticipate it would happen like this.

  • jonbecker2 hours ago
    tl;dr

    dataset: 72.1m trades and $18.26b volume on kalshi (2021-2025)

    core findings:

    longshot bias: well documented longshot bias is present on kalshi. low probability contracts are systematically overpriced. contracts trading at 5 cents only win 4.18% of the time.

    wealth transfer: liquidity takers lose money (-1.12% excess return) while liquidity makers earn it (+1.12%).

    optimism tax: the losses are driven by a preference for "yes" outcomes. buying "yes" at 1 cent has a -41% expected value. buying "no" at 1 cent has a +23% expected value.

    category variation: finance markets are efficient (0.17% maker-taker gap) while high-engagement categories like media and world events are inefficient (>7% gap).

    mechanism: makers do not win by out-forecasting takers. they win by passively selling "yes" contracts to optimistic bettors

    • hbarkaan hour ago
      > Optimism tax: the losses are driven by a preference for "yes" outcomes. buying "yes" at 1 cent has a -41% expected value. buying "no" at 1 cent has a +23% expected value.

      This is interesting and makes a statement about positive or negative orientation in human psychology. Also, couldn’t the bets just be worded in the negative instead of the affirmative thus flipping the optimism bet?

    • tasukian hour ago
      I wish I had read the comments (ie your comment, as it's the only one now) before reading the article!
    • snovv_crashan hour ago
      The question is how long this alpha continues to exist...
    • KPGv2an hour ago
      This reminds me of the old scheme where if you just bet against ND football you'd make money because ND fans were so rabid that the "ND is good" positions became overpriced.
      • hbarkaan hour ago
        Yes, in the study they pinpointed this beautifully: “A fan betting on their team to win the championship is not calculating expected value; they are purchasing hope.”
    • TZubirian hour ago
      I don't think that makers sell "yes" they take both ends of the bet, but they make more money on selling yes,apparently.
  • yieldcrv16 minutes ago
    To me this is all the more reason to get regulatory gatekeeping out of the financial markets

    If the odds in some financial products are worse than gambling while everyone can access gambling, then people should stop making a distinction under the guise of protecting investors

    it just drives investors to actual gambling because they cant get the exposure they were already looking for

    • JumpCrisscross10 minutes ago
      > it just drives investors to actual gambling because they cant get the exposure they were already looking for

      This argument gets trotted out by Wall Street every decade or so, usually under the guise of "democratising" some piece of finance. It's almost always bunk.

      Most investment capital is looking for safe returns. It's not competing with gambling. Even within the high-risk end of finance, the game is in turning that high risk into above-market but predictable returns through portfolio mechanics. (Fuckups aside, you can't generally portfolio mechanic your way out of the negative expectated value of a lottery ticket.)

      More simply: the notion that we need to increase risk and profitiabilty for intermediaries in investments to keep people from gamblig is a false economy. Gamblers are seeking a different thrill from what financial markets are designed to provide. To the degree we have a problem, it's in letting our markets look more like casinos.

  • jebarkeran hour ago
    I wonder how much of the activity on prediction markets these days is competing LLM scripts? I would guess the overlap in prediction market punters and AI boomers is high.