44 pointsby Digit-Al9 hours ago4 comments
  • 1970-01-017 hours ago
    I find it funny that they could simply exit the Antarctic treaty and take over Antarctica and gain more value. There's plenty of good stuff under that ice too. It's very likely that it's got his favorite mineral of all: gold.
    • prepend7 hours ago
      I think that’s harder than just buying/hypnotizing/invading/whatever.

      If we exit the Antarctic treaty, then so will everyone else and there’s multiple competing claims.

      • Zigurd6 hours ago
        The US is on the verge of becoming a pariah within NATO. The Antarctica treaty ain't nothing compared to that.
    • 7 hours ago
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    • mc325 hours ago
      Don’t give governments bad ideas —surely the treaty will collapse one day and the big powers will divvy it up and push out the has been powers from the playground… but let’s keep things as they are as long as possible.
  • david-gpu7 hours ago
    I hope we can at least avoid the sanewashing.

    > President Donald Trump has renewed his efforts to take over Greenland, and tapping into the Danish territory’s natural resources is a key part of the strategy.

    It is not "taking over" or "annexing". It is invading. A military ally, at that.

    And it is not "tapping into [...] natural resources". It is plundering their natural resources.

    None of these hypotheticals are consensual. There is no plan for a freely agreed-upon bilateral agreement. This is about invading and pillaging a foreign land. Whether it is Greenland, Canada, or any other country.

    • troyvit6 hours ago
      While we're at it I also fail to see any strategy.
      • Zigurd5 hours ago
        They are button mashing the policy controller
      • goatlover5 hours ago
        Nobody is talking about how less than 1% of the Epstein files have been released weeks past the deadline after Venezuela, ICE in Minneapolis and Greenland.
        • krapp5 hours ago
          Plenty of people are still talking about that.

          There are a lot of people and they talk about lots of different things.

        • thatguy09003 hours ago
          I don't even have hope it will accomplish anything. Everyone who still supports him either doesn't care or will say it's Ai generated.
      • dyauspitr4 hours ago
        Apparently the Lauder billionaire mentioned it because he has a mineral water bottling plant and some other insignificant business there. But Trump liked the idea so it’s basically all this is for some spring water.

        More consequentially it’s an attempt to destroy NATO so Putin can have his way with Europe.

        • thatguy09003 hours ago
          Considering how quickly he moved past taking Canada I almost feel like he didn't want it that badly but now he's blustered about it so much it would be embarrassing so not get it.
      • BanAntiVaxxers4 hours ago
        It is Putin’s strategy
        • fasbiner3 hours ago
          Europe going forward is going to be treated the way the US treats and has always treated Latin American and African and Middle Eastern countries. That you see a conspiracy in further coercion of a non-consensual empire indicates how sheltered and "white identity" oriented you are.
      • locknitpicker4 hours ago
        > While we're at it I also fail to see any strategy.

        The word on the street is that it's yet another step to try to keep the Epstein files out of the news.

    • 4 hours ago
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    • lazide7 hours ago
      We’ve always been at war with east Asia.
    • prepend7 hours ago
      It’s not invading, yet. Just buying or psyopping is more likely than fighting NATO.
      • thatguy09003 hours ago
        If I threatened someone until they sold me something that they made very clear they did not want to sell noone would call it "Buying" and we shouldn't either. It would be extorting. Under no circumstances are we buying Greenland at this point, anything that happens is something else.
        • fasbiner3 hours ago
          Extortion is the right word here.

          The problem is that virtually the entire new world and much of the old world was acquired by force and threats of force that has been legitimized over time. So yes, I think this is clearly extortion and any sale that takes would be coerced.

          But ever was it thus.

          • 3 hours ago
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      • georgemcbay5 hours ago
        > It’s not invading, yet. Just buying or psyopping is more likely than fighting NATO.

        Threatening to invade (which the Trump administration has been explicitly doing) is about as damaging as invading in the long run, either way we have sent the message loud and clear that the US is no longer a reliable ally and everyone has to shift away from the post-WW2 world order.

  • ethagknight8 hours ago
    [flagged]
    • justin666 hours ago
      What examples of digging through that amount of ice for the purposes of mining are you familiar with? What's a good example?

      It'd be interesting to understand how much the environment there increases the cost of mining. Anything is possible, but it'd be cool to know whether it makes any sense. (and yes, I think our leadership in the US is fully capable of causing an international crisis over mineral assets that would in financial terms be best left in the ground)

      • AlotOfReading4 hours ago
        It's not for mining, but the US built Camp Century and Camp TUTO in the ice to determine how feasible Project Iceworm would be. A construction film about the former was declassified some decades ago [0]. Icefield construction wasn't feasible even in the context of cold-war era MAD spending.

        Actual subglacial mining has only been attempted a few times. Kumtor gold mine in Kyrgyzstan is in the middle of a couple glaciers and reshaped the landscape to redirect the glaciers a bit. Svea Nord in Svalbard ran tunnels under a glacier for coal. Canada's Granduc mine wasn't technically on or under a glacier, but it was just below one.

        [0] https://archive.org/details/TheU.S.ArmysTopSecretArcticCityU...

        • justin663 hours ago
          I guess I don't even know what to do with some of this information. It occurred to me that you'd also probably have to build some infrastructure (power plant, railroad, fuel terminal, a real port... I don't know) in order to even get the ball rolling. I don't think anyone's going to pay for that by taxing the citizens of Nuuk.

          I also wonder if there has ever been a real geopolitical obstacle to doing this stuff, since the Danes and Greenlanders seem amenable to doing business. It would seem the obstacles have all been financial.

          • AlotOfReading2 hours ago
            As I said in a comment elsewhere, arctic mining is doable with nation-state level resources. There's just no reason to do so that isn't better accomplished by other means. It would be stupid, expensive, and devastate a beautiful country.

            As for "amenable", my experience is that people in the arctic are relatively unhappy about that sort of industrial development. They like the places they live.

    • acdha6 hours ago
      If “non experts” aren’t welcome, can you establish your expertise on the topic? In particular, what’s your experience with mining thorough ice or maintaining industrial operations in the Arctic or near-arctic conditions?
    • trashtester6 hours ago
      The main problem with ice, is that it moves all the time. The glaciers on Iceland move up to 46m per day. Also, any tunnel created in fast moving ice could easily be crushed by the pressure of the ice.
      • AlotOfReading4 hours ago
        Greenland isn't entirely covered in ice. Take a look at any of the mineral resources maps floating around for the country. Everything's on the coastal margins in places only covered by seasonal snow. The interior is a big blank because no one's been able to search under the ice.

        However, the adjacent Canadian provinces (Nunavut & Northern Labrador) share many of the same geologic provinces, also without significant glaciation. There aren't a lot of big mines up there relative to the mineral wealth because it's simply too challenging. Constructing big infrastructure in the arctic takes resources approaching nation-state levels. Most mining companies can't muster that or maintain it long-term.

      • mixmastamyk5 hours ago
        Don’t modern mines remove everything over a very large area? It’s not tunnels and pickaxes any longer. The trucks are the size of a three story building.

        Start with a few bunker busting bombs, work outside of winter, dump ice, dirt into ocean. Sounds plausible.

        • fifilura5 hours ago
          Ok, and then repeat that every week when the new ice moves in?
          • mixmastamyk4 hours ago
            It’s a misconception that there’s a lot of precipitation in the polar regions. They’re actually quite dry due to low humidity.

            But yes mines continue mining, is that somehow unexpected?

            • fifilura4 hours ago
              The ice comes from the side not from above.
              • mixmastamyk3 hours ago
                And? So carve out a wider area. The defeatism is palpable in here, some hackers. Why even get out of bed in the morning, right?

                They extract oil from tar sands in Alberta, for example. Difficult things are done all the time that are costly, as long as the price exceeds the cost.

                To be clear my post above is not supportive of the administration, but rather the feasibility of mining at high latitudes.

                • fifilura2 hours ago
                  Yeah if there were no other cheaper alternatives I am sure someone would find a way.

                  But it seems like a pretty long financial stretch to first pay for invading a country and then this.

                  • mixmastamyk2 hours ago
                    Greenland is 99% uninhabited. There is no significant bill for invasion beyond transportation of mining equipment, cheap at sea. They were talking about buying it or the inhabitants, but that is paid with other people's money.

                    Reply below: It's been under Danish control, and the Arctic is warming more quickly than other parts of the world.

                    • fifiluraan hour ago
                      I assume it has not happened because there are better things to bet your money on.
    • TitaRusell7 hours ago
      There is a cost benefit ratio to mining.

      I imagine it is a lot easier to just strip mine Australia.

      • prepend7 hours ago
        It’s definitely easier to mine in Australia.

        But you can do both. It’s about marginal profitability, not absolute.

        Do people think we must pick just one place to mine?

        • dukeyukey6 hours ago
          You can do both, but why would you? It's not like we've tapped out Australia. And until we have, why bother with Greenland if the same money invested in Australia, or Sweden, or Canada would yield more profit?
        • throwawayqqq115 hours ago
          Maybe, people previously thought it was not worth it to mine in greenland and thats why there is no noticable mining operation. But what do i know about cost-ratio or thinking.
    • phatfish5 hours ago
      I'm glad the resident HN tech bros are also Arctic mining experts. Surely they wouldn't complain about non-experts writing clickbaity articles while making claims with no evidence themselves.
  • clickety_clack8 hours ago
    So you’re telling me there’s a chance?…