Yes, more wind will reduce emissions, but these prices don’t mean they will reduce total system cost.
Also, if gas utilization falls dramatically capital costs will come to dominate. It’s not just the turbines, the gas network is costly.
The context: this is about bids from wind farm operators to win "contracts for difference" with the Low Carbon Contracts Company, an entity owned by the UK government. It's essentially a subsidy scheme where the wind farms can lock in a specific price per MWh for all the electricity they will produce over a certain period. But only if they bid low enough to be among the winners of the auction.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contracts_for_Difference_(UK_e...
a) A load factor of 30% (which seems pretty low for a CCGT), that is actually ~28% (per Annex A [1] "Technical Costs and Assumptions" sheet);
b) fuel efficiency is set to be 54%, which is far lower than BAT CCGT of around 64%, which affects fuel and CO2 emissions costs;
c) the analysis missed out capacity market payments that one gets for having dispatchable power stations;
d) the analysis presumes £41/MWh of carbon costs.
The key drivers of the price are load factor (so amortised construction costs), conversion efficiency (fuel costs and carbon costs) and carbon costs themselves. These make up 90% of the LCOE.
[0] https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/electricity-gener... [1] https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/6967b0c806fab...
2) Use marginal pricing model which effectively guarantees windfall profits for those sources.
3) Utilization of peaking power plants falls, but you still have to keep them because there is not enough storage capacity.
4) Peaking power plants rise generation costs to offset the lower utilization, further adding to the windfall profits.
5) You need more grid capacity to handle energy transfers from distributed generation sources.
5) ????
6) Act surprised when people loudly complain about electricity bills despite abundant "cheap" generation.
Intermittency of generation is an externality (same as CO2 emissions) and should be priced accordingly. People are willing to pay premium for supply stability, but the current pricing model does no account for that. Trying to change consumption habits (like smart grids, dynamic pricing, etc.) works poorly, especially for such vital resource as electricity.
I think there should be some kind of price penalty for intermittent sources dependent on total ratio of intermittent generation in the mix. At least until grid-scale energy storage technology will be advanced enough to store approximately week of total energy consumption.
It leads to a lot of telling new sources to dump their energy, and paying them to dump their energy, while simultaneously paying old gas generators (nearer the demand) to fire up. All for the want of more grid capacity.
https://ukerc.ac.uk/news/transmission-network-unavailability...
Why? Has the UK started trying recently? When I lived there nobody gave a hoot about fluctuating prices. It would have been hard to even know when electricity was expensive or not. Has it changed?
Meanwhile >three decades ago my grandparents in rural France had a big red lamp on the kitchen wall that would light up when energy was expensive. It was a part of their life and they had no problem with it. They chose that plan deliberately because it ended up cheaper.
If you’re saying that even with adaptive behavior , it’s all a wash because the constant cost of peakers is so high that you lose all savings when they kick in , no matter how little you use; ok, I believe you did the math.
But if the claim is “it’s impossible for humans to adapt their energy consumption depending on the current price of electricity”, I have seen first hand that is not true. For sure when I lived in Britain nobody did this at all, but that would be at best a British limitation, not a human one.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_7
My parents would set timers on the dishwasher, washing machine etc too run at night.
IIRC there are several utilities in the UK which provide option to price electricity dynamically, but they are not popular because people do not want to play this game. They want reliable supply of electricity for reasonable prices. Trying to mold consumption to satisfy intermittency of generation is nothing more than shifting the externality akin to telling people "you must plant trees to offset CO2 emissions!".
The marginal price windfalls happen specifically when you’re able to deliver at a low cost when demand is high in the same ISP.
This just seems like data-free fear mongering.
* the gas price in the article includes the government’s self-imposed carbon tax. The actual cost of gas (£55) is FAR lower than the £91.20 strike price Milibad has set for wind. And Miliband has locked in this terrible pricing for 20 years!
* there are huge extra costs for wind power that are not accounted for in this quoted strike price. The grid must be upgraded. Expensive new power generation capability will need to be built to compensate for the intermittency of wind
* the stated power capacity of wind generation is a theoretical maximum, and the actual capacity will be much lower in practice.
The actual cost has to price in the impact of using it.
For example, it's cheaper for UK water companies to pump sewage into rivers and onto beaches:
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cz9kz8ydjpno
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-67357566
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c5yprnd848ko
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2025/sep/16/sewage-o...
But maybe it's a nice idea to force them to deal with sewage properly so you don't have to live in rivers of shit.
Nonetheless, two thoughts come to mind:
1) we don't know the "actual cost" of offshore wind
2) we may not be able to afford even the "market cost" of offshore wind without the natgas tax subsidy
Is there real evidence the collected tax revenue is actually offsetting carbon emissions?
There's a lot of fraud in carbon credit systems - where often the sole benefit is feeling and/or looking good.
Is this self-imposed tax actually having a real result - or is it just artificially increasing the price of energy? If the latter, then it's not really fair to claim it's the actual cost.
The purpose of the tax is not to raise money to plant trees, it’s to raise the cost of emissions so that markets move away from them
The parent comment stated "actual cost has to price in the impact of using it". Most people would agree on this. However, for both claims to be true, the collected tax revenue must be spent offsetting the impact of that gas usage - not simply reducing gas usage (ie. that consumed gas isn't being compensated for).
If the UK government is spending that tax revenue on anything it wants, then it's not the actual cost, is it?
If you then also spend the taxes on some form of offsets (if we pretend for the sake of argument that those work) you would have reduced emissions twice. One time seems plenty to say they are doing their job.
Is that unreasonable? Carbon dioxide is an externality, and it needs to be accounted for accordingly. Suppose the government is tendering contracts for milk for school lunches. One farm runs a CAFO[1] that pollutes the local river. The other has cows on a pasture that doesn't. Is it that unreasonable for the government to be like "well hang on, the CAFO farm might be cheaper the grass fed farm, but it'll cost us money to clean up all the shit they're dumping into the river, so we're going to impose a tax on the CAFO farm for their pollution"?
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concentrated_animal_feeding_op...
Yes it is unreasonable. Spending money to reduce carbon is just a subsidy for other countries who DGAF and will emit both theirs and yours.
So it’s true each individual country only receives a fraction of the negative impact of their own emissions, but that fraction isn’t zero and therefore should be taxed to maximize economic efficiency. Further joining international treaties to agree to collectively tax carbon at a higher rate representing the harm across all those countries is even more economically efficient.
Dumping your waste, others be damned, is a hell of a way to live.
It’s not unreasonable to report the facts and let the reader decide. The carbon tax is a readily available fact where in your example is subjective.
The self-imposed tax is there and isn't going anywhere, so it's included in the price.
The other two points are accounted for in the strike price, because this capacity came into being and is now offering electricity at the strike price.
The new wind power is mostly idling natural gas power plants, which can spin up on the rare occasions there's no wind in the North Sea. Then the UK only uses the expensive shipped LNG a few days a year. The much cheaper piped natural gas is already allocated.
Capacity is constant. You're talking about capacity factor, i.e., average utilization. Numbers from 2018 for Danish offshore wind farms show capacity factors approaching 50%. These brand-new turbines mounted on 150 meters+ towers in the middle of the North Sea will absofuckinglutely beat that.
https://www.modernpowersystems.com/news/eight-new-uk-wind-fa...
i.e. if you're buy 99% cheap RE, 1% expensive gas then you're paying for 100% at the higher gas price.
That's how commodity producers like farmers can be profitable. The marginal producer makes no profit, but every producer who can get their costs below the marginal producer makes a profit.
If farmers didn't make any money, they'd stop farming and we'd have no food.
Yes, costs have skyrocketed -- combine harvesters start at about a million now. But wheat prices and yields have been high enough to more than compensate.
But Saskatchewan farmers are a great example of a low cost producer. A Saskatchewan farm usually runs about 10,000 acres per operator. UK farms with a couple hundred acres can't compete.
So, OK, clearly this CCGT electricity here (made with gas) offered for £85 per MWh we're going to buy that, for £85 per MWh.
Now, we also needed all this wind power which bids £5 per MWh. Presumably you'd want to pay them less than £85 per MWh. So, too bad, they bid too low, they get punished right? But since you aren't OK with paying less than the bid price, doubtless if they had bid £84 you'd pay that right?
Notice that the incentive in your model is for everybody to guess what you'll pay and bid just barely below that, whereupon you've wasted a lot of resources, your strategy no longer has any price discovery value, and you're paying almost as much as before. A triumph of... rationality?
How much do you reckon you can save the average household if you do this? £50 per year? Twice that?
That isn’t a “system”. It’s just what happens. Why would the 99% RE be forced to sell at a lower price? They will sell at whatever the market value is. Which is determined by supply and demand. And the gas turbines will only turn on if it becomes profitable for them to turn on at that price. So the causality actually is the other way around. Lots of demand increases electricity prices, higher electricity prices make it profitable for more expensive means of production to be powered up.
The one that I can think of is the government sets the amount of electricity produced, and then it’s rationed. But I doubt the UK would be happy with rationed electricity where your power shuts off the second it’s over. That would be essentially mandatory blackouts all the time.
Not to mention the cost would be held by the government, so you end up paying it in taxes anyway.
Honestly, pricing based on the cost of financing and operation isn't a terrible idea.
Under the current system, when energy becomes hard to produce or more people need it, rising prices means people will reduce. So pricing for cost of financing, sure, but it might be a higher cost because people will consume more.
Why should an operator of wind turbine sell their kWh for less if the current price is high? That would be stupid.
The key is that in the UK gas sets the price almost 100% of the time, vs 25% in Germany or less than 10% in France. The fix: build more of the cheap sources. A patch: cap what gas can bid.
Like if gas is $5 and RE is $1 the RE folks get $5 instead?
Devils advocate would say that might work out in RE's favor. Lower production costs mean more profit and therefore more incentive to build more RE
Instead of focusing on this, here a few more impactful things that would help: 1. Zonal pricing, so that there is an aligned incentive to build production where demand is (connection to the grid is a big limiting factor) 2. Stop providing contracts to renewable where curtailed production gets paid (curtailed energy is paid by consumers as taxes on bills normally) 3. Start allowing to build more renewable so that renewable are setting the marginal price 4. Push utilities to do PPA (power purchase agreements) with producers of RE so they can agree to a fixed price, and a smaller slice of electricity is bought at the auction
There are a few more, but these are the most important.
Regarding your edit: the gas plant is not subsidizing, the customers are paying. But of course at the moment building renewable is so lucrative thanks to this setup, that there is a big incentive to build them. Of course they need to plan for 20-30 years, and the risk of getting to big periods at 0 marginal pricing is real, so builders need to evaluate well the risk (and PPAs can help)
In a non-competitive world what you say would be true (you'd avoid filling in the remaining 1%), but there are a large number of power producers that a cartel is unlikely
Edit to answer my own concern: But, reading this article, it does seem like the auction is the offramp. The government takes bids for enough power to supply the country, and once the auction is settled the worst-case cost is paid to all winners. So there's a hope that gas will eventually subsidize its replacement with renewables.
What they're auctioning are what's called "Contracts for Difference". The contract has a "Strike price" which is in essence the price the government (via a for-purpose company) agrees you will be paid regardless of what happens for electricity sold to the system.
Now as the word "difference" might suggest there will be a difference between the market price at any particular moment and this strike price. The CfD works by the government paying you the difference when the market price was lower, and you pay the government the difference when it's higher. You can definitely afford to pay them 'cos you just got to sell power for $$$$
Why do this? Well, the trick is that a government (even if politicians don't always act like it) is here for the long haul. So for them guaranteeing how much you'll be paid for energy you're not going to make for ten years is fine. Tax will still exist in ten years, houses with electric light will still exist in ten years, this is an easy bet. But for a wind farm company, a commercial undertaking, such guarantees are incredibly valuable and would be unaffordable from elsewhere. So this is (relatively) a very cheap subsidy.
When there was a gas price spike because Russia invaded Ukraine the contracted wind farms paid a whole lot of money because of that difference I talked about, if you'd gone freelance, no CfD subsidy well, you're printing cash, 'cos at those prices you probably made back your whole install costs in a year of trading.
(Or in the case of renewables: producing for less profit than they would if they made their contract later)
You might need to sit down for this. The wind farms don't use fuel. Wind just happens, it's a natural phenomenon that has no real regard for our stupid "wind farm" even as we're harvesting gigawatts of power the wind doesn't ccare.
If you were thinking "Wait I thought all the providers have these contracts, not just renewables" then er no, they're a subsidy, the CfD is a subsidy scheme. That cheap to make, expensive to run open cycle gas turbine some asshole put on a local industrial estate doesn't get a CfD, it can offer to sell the resulting electricity at market prices, and really the big problem is as you observed, that's possibly less than what it costs to buy fuel. Yeah, it is, bad idea to keep building Open Cycle Gas Turbines I reckon. Sure enough the UK almostly exclusively has more expensive to build but cheaper to run Combined Cycle plants.
CfDs are used to subsidise renewable future power. A long term energy independence strategy. Even if you don't care about the planet warming and the sea levels rising you won't be burning all this gas in a thousand years 'cos there's not enough gas. Whereas the sun will shine until long after we're gone, and the accompanying winds won't stop either.
The size of the subsidy varies, if you're building a pilot plant of a new technology that you're sure will revolutionize clean energy but, alas, no-one ever made one that worked before, the government might be willing to pay you four or five times as much money for your energy, partly because they're not expecting you to actually make any energy because you will likely fail. If your plan's big problem is that it's way less mechanically reliable than you'd like, this is a big incentive to incrementally improve that reliability. If your device that involves being in and out of an incredibly powerful tidal stream of corrosive sea water at freezing temperatures makes power but doesn't crack, tear, fall to pieces or explode in the scheduled period of operation you're that much closer to actually having a useful technology and paying you five times over the odds for the MWh you did make is a reasonable price.
From the first two you can calculate what you need in terms of £/MWh (include whatever profit you want in there). Now you can go to the government and bid that price in the auction. If you win, you have a safe profit and all risk (and upside potential) now lies with the government. As GP said, in the case of 2022 you would have lost out on revenue. But that’s the price foe guaranteed margins
The CfD part is a technical detail. It ~ doesn’t matter whether you first sell the energy and then go to the government for reimbursement. Or whether you sell the energy to the government which then handles the follow up sale.
What I’m not sufficiently familiar with is whether you _have_ to go to such an auction (i.e. whether the auction also is the mechanism of capacity planning) or whether you are free to bypass this system and just hook up your wind park and carry the risk yourself. But functionally this is an insurance scheme for profits, with a market based pricing system
https://www.ref.org.uk/ref-blog/382-newly-opened-viking-wind...
yes
if there's 1mW of gas in the grid then everyone gets paid the gas price
this is called pay-as-clear, and has some positives (strongly encourages RE construction), and some disadvantages (zero long term planning, paying gas generators absurd rates if they can squeeze in at the top of the auction)
UK government is consulting on changes to this system at present
this is not the global oil market
the UK electricity market is a government creation, highly regulated, and only accessible to limited participants
30 minutely, day ahead, pay-by-clear auction markets are not a property of the universe
You do marginal pricing because otherwise providers will simply bid what they think the crossover price will be - marginal prices lower prices in the long run because providers try to improve their margins and lower their bids.
Also renewables bid on the spot and day ahead markets really low because their cost is almost entirely capex (and also most are under CfD anyway so may as well bid 0) - the spread isn't nearly as good as the data would imply. If you didn't use marginal pricing you'd have them bidding higher to cover their capex.
The point of this is that it's supposed to guarantee windfall profits for wind operators, to make it attractive to keep building out wind until all the marginal gas is pushed out of the market mix. The price being set by the highest-cost source in the mix is a feature for incentivizing buildout, not a bug.