https://www.reddit.com/r/Minneapolis/comments/1qbawlr/minnea...
These aren’t bad apples, ICE operates without regard to the law by design.
Incorrupt governments follow their own laws.
I assure you if you treat an ice agent the way that they treat folks, you will see the application of quite a few laws.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lampshades_made_from_human_ski...
Wearing skulls on their uniforms? Check. (Punisher symbols)
Disappearing "undesirables" to foreign camps? Check. (CECOT)
Murderous paramilitary brown shirts? Check. (Rene Goode)
Anti-science? Check. Anti-accountability? Check. Nationalistic? Check.
Not for nothing, our current American (extremist) government is raising stink about "professional agitators". I don't see them. I don't believe it's happening. But I have no proof nor experience to support my belief. I'm stuck with this Cat both dead and alive.
What I do witness are news stories such as "X's new feature reveals foreign origins of some popular U.S. political accounts" [1] "Pro-Scottish independence accounts on X go dark in Iran internet blackout" [2]. Therefore, I do believe people or governments or something else are creating anonymous accounts to sow division and agitate already upset communities.
I'm just pointing out the user is very fresh.
And I think that's a valid response. I also used to participate on /. back when it was more interesting, and I liked their use of "Anonymous Coward" for users who want to truck out their controversial take. I don't think that's what is happening here. It's more of a mike-drop comment. Bon mot. Spiked football. Wake up and smell what the Rock is Cooking. AH. NO.
[1]: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/x-foreign-origins-political-acc... [2]: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15458991/Pro-Scotti...
As for anyone going door to door, do not open.
What is with the dang worship on HN?!
He is coconspirator and enabler of the very thing you are uncomfortable with.
Call him what he is: the problem.
the only answer to fascism is global and local unity. the majority of people need to be against fascism. violence will always come from a minority position and will never have majority support. a majority does not need violence.
sadly the sister comment is dead: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46612742
it links to a good video arguing against violence: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGdF9pKMOAA
eg: ICE has no authority wrt traffic stops and the kind of actions taken recently.
Door to door ID dragnets are not part of the written laws, etc.
As the ACLU notes, Obamas use of ICE is similar to Trumps. I believe if people are sincere, they should condemn either neither or both.
If they refuse to condemn Obama, but do condemn Trump, I do not believe they can make a good argument about compassion. That may change the conversation, which I think would lead to a more logical discussion.
Obama is a great orator, and a historic figure. If we don’t remind people that he used ICE much like Trump did, we could end up with a historic injustice. If you call Trump a monster for his use of ICE ( as the ACLU does ), you should also call Obama a monster ( also as the ACLU does ). It’s only fair.
If it’s still not clear, I’ll give a historical example. Bill Clinton molested several women, paid out large sums of money, etc. The man was a lech. But women’s organizations supported him and gave him cover for several years. ( I.e. NOW, the national organization of women ). Clinton was named ‘Father if the year’ by some organization. Can you imagine how this galled people on the other side of the political aisle? It seemed there was no end to the hypocrisy. Finally, thankfully, #MeToo came along and the truth was acknowledged.
That’s why I keep throwing this out there. The truth must be acknowledged. You can’t call Trump a monster without calling Obama a monster, too.
Except no one is disputing this "truth". You're making up a strawman. Clearly, no one on the Left cares to defend Obama over his use of ICE, you must have realized this by now. But you keep bringing him up whenever ICE does anything illegal or abhorrent (which is daily now). Why is that? And I am yet to hear you condemn anything.
> Can you imagine how this galled people on the other side of the political aisle?
Not really, when the current President was Epstein's best friend, a known pedophile, and is embroiled in several rape affairs. Clearly the Right does not care about women, they even ran on an anti-feminism agenda. When Trump said "grab her by the pussy" during the campaign it did not make any waves in right-wing circles.
On the other hand, outside of the most dickless liberal circles, people on the Left are extremely quick to criticize/condemn democratic leaders: Biden, Obama, Clinton... Even Harris, people were extremely mad over her awful campaign.
Meanwhile, I am yet to see a single republican criticize Trump over literally anything. The guy did multiple crypto-scams, received obvious bribes (one of them an entire plane) from islamic dictatorships, is knee-deep in a major international pedophilia scandal, etc. Dead silence from the right.
Like right now, you keep deflecting whenever ICE does something bad. I have not seen you even acknowledge that ICE stealing from citizens is bad. You keep doing whataboutisms for some reason.
Because he doesn't[0], he's just a troll that likes hearing anyone to the left of him say that Obama Was Bad.
Here’s Mitt Romney on Trump: https://pbswisconsin.org/watch/newshour/mitt-romney-s-full-s...
Here’s George Bush: https://enewspaper.latimes.com/infinity/article_popover_shar...
So I don’t understand why you say Republicans don’t criticize Trump. As you can see, they criticize him very harshly, for a number of things. Please explain what you meant.
Now for the Democrats, please show me an article about a Democrat disowning Obama for his use of ICE. The bigger the politician, the better.
Republicans in Congress (the ones who can hold him accountable) are clearly sycophantic towards Trump, but you know that, hence the irrelevant politicians you named.
I think you made your point, anytime ICE shoots at civilians or steals stuff from citizens, it's OK because Obama or ACLU or whatever Fox News told you to think. Got it.
You are yet more living proof that republicans are completely unable of going against Trump on anything. You guys will keep deflecting, changing the subject and using other fallacies to avoid it. (These three dudes you mentioned were de facto excommunicated from the GOP, Pence was even threatened by the Jan 6 thugs that wanted to hang him for not stealing the election).
If your next comment does not contain an acknowledgement of the most basic fact that "ICE stealing from citizens is bad", (something they did not do under Obama btw), this conversation is over.
That's a wild non sequitur in the the middle of your false equivalency. If you can't see the problems right in front of your eyes, and are still complaining about Obama, then you're lost.
As a peer comment notes, bad behaviour _under_ a former administration is distinct from bad behaviour fully embraced, endorsed, and backed _by_ the current administration.
As an aside, the "did you see what Obama did" is a poor response; while I'm certainly not a "literal communist" by any stretch I do urge you to watch a very short clip that specifically highlights the silliness of Obama V. Trump responses:
* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JD7Ol0gz11k
If it helps to grasp my stance here, I'm not a US citizen and view all US administrations through the lens of not entirely reliable partners.
Thank you for the video, it highlights the discussion I think is needed.
I look forward to you linking to evidence of Obama's whole hearted endorsement of ICE agents under his administration threatening children with rape.
Clearly without such equivilance of support of excess from the top the cases of ICE under Obama and ICE under Trump are very very different.
Here’s an article where ACLU says agents patted a teenagers behind and threatened her with rape but this was on Obamas watch.
https://www.aclu.org/news/immigrants-rights/border-patrol-wa...
Have you got something that says something similar happened on Trumps watch?
If not, I suppose an argument could be made that Trump is better than Obama, at least in this regard.
Oh, which Congress members sponsored the laws on stealing people's stuff? I missed that one.
Sorry, they may be enforcing laws, but the method of enforcement itself appears unlawful.
https://www.cbsnews.com/minnesota/news/federal-prosecutors-m...
In the meantime ICE seems to be trying to simply provoke a response time and again with no consequences.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ICE_Raids/comments/1q7u4kz/ice_agen...
https://www.reddit.com/r/minnesota/comments/1q7y43s/cbp_poin...
The volume of videos are endless. ICE agents walking up to protesters and shoving them to the ground, drive by pepper spraying, it goes on. These aren’t one off situations, this is every day in Minneapolis these days.
I find it of interest that same kinds of anti state and federal government militia types that were actively storming federal and state capitals and beating on LEOs at that time are now joining ICE in droves and preaching compliance to the boot.
(2) If one officer is telling you to move on and the other officer is telling you to get out of the car and you need to listen to both, which one do you comply with?
(3) You can be a "Legal Observer" does not imply "Political vigilantism". The idea of a "Legal Observer" is laid out by National Lawyers Guild and to some extent, by ACLU.
to counter 3) I would say there's a clear chick and egg here. ICE started behaving in a way that is now being met with an equal and opposite reactionary force. If ICE can stop acting like some SS wannabe force, the vigilantism goes away as well. The rules and laws are for everyone, not just some.
Complying is like moving from the kitchen to the living room because the kitchen is on fire, then sitting down and pretending life is BAU.
You need to either fight the fire or GTFO, but pretending there is no fire will kill you all the same.
Cool, how do I identify them? They don't have badges and refuse to give ID. They cover their faces and use excessive force. Should I just immediately give up my rights and do whatever is asked of me from someone in a vest and ski mask with a gun because they claim to be a government agent?
We've seen videos in the past 72 hours showing blatant illegal activity and constitutional violations. You're literally commenting on an article about an ICE agent stealing an underage victim's property. Is this the American Freedom you guys always talk about? "Comply and get in the van with the armed, masked men and maybe you'll make it out alive"?
Just today ICE raided a target. Arrested US citizens at random including minors. Then pushed them from moving trucks onto the highway.
You need to understand what is happening. You think complying works? The social contract has been broken.
50 bad cases also doesn't really summarize it well. Chainsawing through a fence and going through an entire apartment complex and zip typing kids together after violently breaking in really isn't "one" incident. Every single interaction there is potentially bad. Just because people were later released because they weren't illegal or in a gang or whatever does not justify going into people's private space and detaining them in a scary way, especially without warrants. That stuff is going to frighten and traumatize those kids. Home will no longer feel safe. This incitement of fear is in itself a huge part of the point and part of why it's very very bad.
Since obviously you’d not be ok with yourself or your child thrown from a moving vehicle.