OP replied and there's another in-depth reply to that below it
> I appreciate you citing the specific clauses. You are reading the 'Black Letter Law' correctly, but you are missing the Litigation Reality (how this actually plays out in court). The 'Primarily Designed' Trap: You argue this only targets a specific 'Arnold Bot.' blah blah blah.
I'm not sure what entirely to do about it, but the fact that some providers still release open models is hopeful to me.
Control and consistency, as well as support for specialized workflows is more important, even if it comes at the expense of model quality.
1. AI succeeds and this success is defined by they will be able to raise prices really high
2. AI fails and receives a bailout
But if there are alternatives I can run locally, they can't raise prices as high because at some point I'd rather run stuff locally even if not state of the art. Like personally, USD 200 a month is already too expensive if you ask me.
And the prices can only go up, right?
Either there's a massive reduction of inference and training costs due to new discoveries and then those big hardware hoarders have no moat anymore or nothing new is discovered and they won't be able to scale forward.
Either way it doesn't sound good for them.
For the long-term value of a horribly overpriced and debt ridden corporation it matters quite a lot if the catch up of open source to adequate is less than a decade in instead of several decades in some uses and a few more in others.
It's a stretched metaphor at this point, but I hope that makes sense (:
If these roads had been designed differently, to naturally enforce the desired speeds, it would be a safer road in general and as a side effect be a less desirable getaway route.
Again I agree we're really stretching here, but there is a real common problem where badly designed roads don't just enable but encourage illegal and potentially unsafe driving. Wide, straight, flat roads are fast roads, no matter what the posted speed limit is. If you want low traffic speeds you need roads to be designed to be hostile to high speeds.
But what I was trying to describe is a "mild mannered" getaway driver. Not fleeing from cops, not speeding. Just calmly driving to and from crimes. Should we punish the road makers for enabling such nefarious activity?
(it's a rhetorical question; I'm just trying to clarify the point)
The model (pardon) in my mind is like this:
* The forger of the banknote is punished, not the maker of the quill
* The author of the libelous pamphlet is punished, not the maker of the press
* The creep pasting heads onto scandalous bodies is punished, not the author of Photoshop
In this world view, how do we handle users of the magic bag of math? We've scarcely thought before that a tool should police its own use. Maybe, we can say, because it's too easy to do bad things with, it's crossed some nebulous line. But it's hard to argue for that on principle, as it doesn't sit consistently with the more tangible and well-trodden examples.
With respect to the above, all the harms are clearly articulated in the law as specific crimes (forgery, libel, defamation). The square I can't circle with proposals like the one under discussion is that they open the door for authors of tools to be responsible for whatever arbitrary and undiscovered harms await from some unknown future use of their work. That seems like a regressive way of crafting law.
In this case the guy making the images isn't doing anything wrong either.
Why would we punish him for pasting heads onto images, but not punish the artist who supplied the mannequin of Taylor Swift for the music video to Famous?†
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7FCgw_GlWc
Why would we punish someone for drawing us a picture of Jerry Falwell having sex with his mother when it's fine to describe him doing it?
(Note that this video, like the recent SNL "Home Alone" sketch, has been censored by YouTube and cannot be viewed anonymously. Do we know why YouTube has recently kicked censorship up to these levels?)
Risk becomes bound to the total value of the company and you can start acting rationally.
You mean like speed limits, drivers licenses, seat belts, vehicle fitness and specific police for the roads?
I still can't see a legitimate use for anyone cloning anyone else's voice. Yes, satire and fun, but also a bunch of malicious uses as well. The same goes with non-fingerprinted video gen. Its already having a corrosive effect on public trust. Great memes, don't get me wrong, but I'm not sure thats worth it.
As a former VFX person, I know that a couple of shows are testing out how/where it can be used. (currently its still more expensive than trad VFX, unless you are using it to make base models.)
Productivity gains in the VFX industry over the last 20 years has been immense. (ie a mid budget TV show has more, and more complex VFX work than most movies that are 10 years old, and look better.)
But, does that mean we should allow any bad actor to flood the floor with fake clips of whatever agenda they want to push? no. If I as a VFX enthusiast gets fooled by GenAI videos (Picture area done deal, its super hard to stop reliably) then we are super fucked.
Yes, lets just give up as bad actors undermine society, scam everyone and generally profit from us.
> You sign that it is authentic.
Signing means you denote ownership. A signed message means you can prove where it comes from. A service should own the shit it generates.
Which is the point, because if I cannot reliably see what is generated, how is a normal person able to tell. being able to provide a mechanism for the normal person to verify is a reasonable ask.
Yes signing so the way you show something is authentic. Like when the Hunter Biden email thing happened I didn't understand (well, I did) why the news was pretending we have no way to check whether they're real or whether the laptop was tampered with. It was a gmail account; they're signed by Google. Check the signatures! If that's his email address (presumably easy enough to corroborate), done. Missed opportunity to educate the public about the fact that there's all sorts of infrastructure to prove you made/sent something on a computer.
The reason safe harbor clauses externalize risks onto the user is because the user gets the most use (heh) of the software.
No developer is going to accept unbounded risk based on user behavior for a limited reward, especially not if they're working for free.
While both can be misused, to me the latter category seems to afford a far larger set of tertiary/unintended uses.
If the courts upheld the part in question, it would create a clear path to go after software authors for any crime committed by a user. Cryptocurrencies would become impossible to develop in the US. Holding authors responsible for the actions of their users basically means everyone has to stop distributing software under their real names. There would be a serious chilling effect, as most open source projects shutdown or went underground.
As the law is specifically targeting models made to duplicate an individual it isn't hard to provide sufficient evidence to clear the hurdles required of restrictions on free speech as examples of the negative effects are well documented and "speech model for an individual" isn't a broad category.
Also I would point out first amendment isn't used by the US to protect software delivery anywhere. Instead it is Congress explicitly encouraging it through the laws it passes.
(shill)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HMsveLMdds
Which is of course the European Version, not the evil American Version.
Edit: Also does this mean OpenAI can bring back the Sky voice?
Chinese companies will happy to drive innovation further after Google and OpenAI giants goes on with this to kill competition in the US.
US capitalism eats itself alive with this.
(not my interpretation, it's what the post states - personally that is not what I think of when I read "Open Source")
Why the hell can't these legislators keep to punishing the law breakers instead of creating unending legal pitfalls for innovation?
We have laws against murdering people with kitchen knives. Not laws against dinnerware. Williams Sonoma doesn't have to worry about lawsuits for its Guy Degrenne Beau Manoir 20-Piece Flatware Set.
Don't worry, the UK is on the case https://reason.com/2019/10/07/the-u-k-must-ban-pointy-knives...
I thought this was an exaggeration
google:
"Reason.com is a reputable source that adheres to journalistic standards, but its content is filtered through a specific, consistent libertarian lens."
If current tech appeared all of a sudden in 1999; I am sure as a society we would all accept this, but slow boiling frog theory I guess.
Here is some background info on the act from wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Fakes_Act.
[0] https://github.com/StevenBlack/hosts/blob/master/readme.md
Good.
But what is frustrating to me is that the second order effects of making the law more restrictive will be doing us all a big disfavor. It will not stop this technology, but it will just make it more inaccessible to normal people and put more power into the hands of the big corporations which the "they're stealing our data!" people would like to stop.
Right now I (a random nobody) can go on HuggingFace, download model which is more powerful that anything that was available 6 months ago, and run it locally on my machine, unrestricted and private.
Can we agree that's, in general, a good thing?
So now if you make the model creators liable for misuse of the models, or make the models a derivative work of its training data, or anything along these lines - what do you think will happen? Yep. The model on HuggingFace is gone, and now the only thing you'll have access to is a paywalled, heavily filtered and censored version of it provided by a megacorporation, while the megacorporation itself has internally an unlimited, unfiltered access to that model.
The models come from overt piracy, and are often used to make fake news, slander people, or other illegal content. Sure it can be funny, but the poison fruit from a poison tree is always going to be overt piracy.
I agree research is exempt from copyright, but people cashing in on unpaid artists works for commercial purposes is a copyright violation predating the DMCA/RIAA.
We must admit these models require piracy, and can never be seen as ethical. =3
'"Generative AI" is not what you think it is'
That's not how these models are used in the the vast majority of cases.
This argument is like saying "kitchen knives are often used to kill people so we need to ban the sale of kitchen knives". Do some people use kitchen knives to kill? Sure. Does it mean they should be banned because of that?
> I agree research is exempt from copyright, but people cashing in on unpaid artists works for commercial purposes is a copyright violation predating the DMCA/RIAA. We must admit these models require piracy, and can never be seen as ethical. =3
So, may I ask - where exactly do you draw the line? For the sake of argument, let's imagine something like this:
1. I scrape the whole internet onto my disk.
2. I go through the text, and gather every word bigram, and build a frequency table.
3. I delete everything I scraped.
4. I use that frequency table (which, compared to the exabytes of the source text I used to build it, is a couple hundred megabytes at most) to build a text generator.
5. I profit from this text generator.
Would you consider this unethical too? Because this is essentially how LLMs work, just in a slightly fancier way. On what exact basis do you draw the line between "ethical" and "unethical" here?This is illegal under theft-of-service laws, and a violation of most sites terms-of-service. If these spider scapers respected the robot exclusion standard under its intended use-case for search-engines, than getting successfully sued for overt copyright piracy and quietly settling for billions would seem unfair.
Note too, currently >52% of the web is LLM generated slop, so any model trained on that output will inherit similar problems.
> 2. I go through the text, and gather every word bigram, and build a frequency table.
And when (not if) a copyrighted work is plagiarized without citation it is academic misconduct, IP theft, and an artistic counterfeit. Copyright law is odd, and often doesn't make a distinction about the origin of similar works. Note this part of the law was recently extended to private individuals this year:
"OpenAI Stole Scarlet Johansson's Voice"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhgYMH6n004
> 3. I delete everything I scraped.
This doesn't matter if the output violates copyright. Images in jpeg format are compressed in the frequency domain, have been around for ages, and still get people sued or stuck in jail regularly.
Academic evaluation usually does fall under a fair-use exception, but the instant someone sells or uses IP in some form of trade/promotion it becomes a copyright violation.
> 4. I use that frequency table
See above, the how it is made argument is 100% BS. The statistical salience of LLM simply can't prevent plagiarism and copyright violations. This was cited in the original topic links.
> 5. I profit from this text generator.
Since this content may inject liabilities into commercial settings, only naive fools will use this in a commercial context. Most "AI" companies lose around $4.50 per new customer, and are a economic fiction driven by some very silly people.
LLM businesses are simply an unsustainable exploit. Unfortunately they also proved wealthy entities can evade laws through regulatory capture, and settling the legal problems they couldn't avoid.
I didn't make the rules, but do disagree cleverness supersedes a just rule of law. Have a wonderful day =3
'"Generative AI" is not what you think it is'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERiXDhLHxmo
And this paper proved the absurd outcome of the bubble is hype:
'Researchers Built a Tiny Economy. AIs Broke It Immediately'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUekLTqV1ME
It is true bubbles driven by the irrational can't be stopped, but one may profit from peoples delusions... and likely get discount GPUs when the economic fiction inevitably implodes. Best of luck =3
"Memoirs of extraordinary popular delusions and the madness of crowds" (Charles Mackay, 1852)
https://www.gutenberg.org/files/24518/24518-h/24518-h.htm
I look forwards to buying the failed data center assets. LLM make great search engines, but are not the path to "AGI". Neuromorphic computing looks more interesting. Have a great day =3
I am not pro-AI, and I agree that the market will crash. But what I take issue with is this NIMBY mentality that we should nitpick proposals with a thousand fake reasons for why we can't build anything in this country. We can't do big engineering projects like china because they are too much of an eyesore or they use too much water or they're not zoned correctly.
We can't put up a new apartment block, it's too much of a strain on the local water supply. Okay can we collect more water, invest in a new reservoir? Of course not, it will endanger the tumbleweed population.
We can't let a new datacenter go up because it will cause everyone's power prices to increase. Okay maybe we can produce more power?? No, BECAUSE ENERGY IS FINITE AND THE SUN IS JUST GOING TO EXPLODE ANYWAYS SO WHY DO YOU EVEN CARE. WTF?
Why can't we build things? Because we just can't, and actually it's impossible and you are rude for suggesting we build anything ever. It's circular reasoning designed to placate suburban NPCs.
If you oppose AI because it is ruining art, or it will drive people out of jobs, just say that. Because these fake complaints about power and water are neither compelling nor effective (they are just technological and material problems which will be ironed out in the coming generations).
Consider most "AI" firms lost on average $4.50 for every new user, rely on overt piracy, and delusional boards sand-bagging for time... these LLM businesses are simply unsustainable fictions.
Many problems don't have simple answers, but one may merely profit by their predictable nature. I would recommend volunteering with a local pet rescue society if you find yourself getting upset about trivia. Have a great day. =3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAcwtV_bFp4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xx4Tpsk_fnM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-8TDOFqkQA
These AI companies are paying for the reactors. As for waste, The Department of Energy handles spent nuclear fuel. Protests against the construction of yucca mountain have made this impossible. Nuclear power plants repeatedly sue the US Government for the cost of storing this nuclear waste on-site, because it's the DOE's problem.
And it is a totally artificial political problem. It is not even nessisarially "waste" in the sense that we ordinarily think: there is a significant amount of fissile isotope in spent fuel and countries like france recycle the majority of spent nuclear fuel. We could do the same with the right infrastructure, and it would vastly decrease the amount of waste we produce and uranium we need to mine.
My point is that complaints in these youtube videos you link (which I am very accustomed to, I have been following this for decades) present the argument that AI is politically dangerous, and this is totally separate from these material complaints (not enough water, not enough power, not enough chips, etc.) you pretend are a significant problem.
These are just extrinsic flaws which can be solved (and WILL be solved, if the USA is able to restore its manufacturing base, which it should). But my issue is purely with the intrinsic dangers of this tech, which are not fixable.
Some of the videos you link are just this suburban NIMBY nagging about muh noise pollution. You might as well get a video of people complaining about EMF pollution. The big issue here is that AI is going to take all of our jobs and will essentially harken the end of the world as we know it. It is going to get incredibly ugly very soon. Who cares about what some 50 year old boomer homeowner (who isn't going to live to see this unfold anyways) thinks about some gray building being built remotely nearby their suburb. They should go back to watching TV.
As for me, I am going to campaign to have my local pet rescue society demolished. It uses too much water and space and electricity, and for what? Something I don't care for? Seems unethical to me that I should bear the cost incurred through increased demand for these resources, even though I did not explicitly consent to the animal shelter being constructed.
This is demonstrably false with negative revenue, and when the gamblers default on the loans it is the public that will bear the consequences. Similar to sub-prime mortgages people on the con are getting tired.
Dismissing facts because you personally feel they are not important is silly. If you think the US will "win" the "AGI" race... than you are fooling yourself, as everything has already been stolen.
Have a great day, and maybe go outside for a walk to settle down a bit if you are uncomfortable with the way imaginary puppies, bunnies, and kittens make you feel. Community non-profit organizations offer tangible goodwill, and are very different from ephemeral LLM fads externalizing a suckers-bet on the public. =3
Arguing regulatory capture versus overt piracy is a ridiculous premise. The "AI" firms have so much liquid capital now... they could pay the fines indefinitely in districts that constrain damages, and already settled with larger copyright holders like it was just another nuisance fee. =3
Maybe a different comparison you would agree with is Stingrays, the devices that track cell phones. Ideally nobody would have them but as is, I’m glad they’re not easily available to any random person to abuse.