202 pointsby stared5 hours ago13 comments
  • stared2 hours ago
    I would like to add:

    - HPVs are extremely common: 80% of men and 90% of women will have at least one strain in their lives. Unless you plan to remain completely celibate, you are likely to contract a strain.

    - Sooner is better, but vaccination can be done at any age. Guidelines often lag behind, but vaccination makes sense even if you are currently HPV-positive. While it won't clear an existing infection, it protects against different strains and reinfection (typically body removed HPV in 1-2 years). See: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/38137661/

    - HPV16 is responsible for a large number of throat cancers (around 50% in smokers and 80% in non-smokers!). This affects both men and women. Vaccinating men is important for their own safety and to reduce transmission to their partners.

    • shevy-java2 hours ago
      > Unless you plan to remain completely celibate

      You can get HPV without sex too.

      https://www.cdc.gov/sti/about/about-genital-hpv-infection.ht...

      "HPV is most commonly spread during vaginal or anal sex. It also spreads through close skin-to-skin touching during sex"

      This focuses on sex, but any virus that can be found on skin, also has a chance to be transmitted without sex just as well. Admittedly the chance here for HPV infection is much higher with regard to sex, but not non-zero otherwise. The HeLa cells also contain a HPV virus in the genome, though this was probably transmitted via sex:

      "The cells are characterized to contain human papillomavirus 18 (HPV-18)"

      HPV-18. I think HPV-18 may in general be more prevalent than HPV-16.

    • elrican hour ago
      I, a male, got vaccinated with the Gardasil 9 vaccine shortly before turning 40. Convincing my doctor to prescribe it wasn't terribly difficult, I told them a few things about my sexual history and explained some of my sexual plans, and that was that.

      I wish more people would get vaccinated.

      • EE84M3ian hour ago
        How much did it cost? I've considered it but it seems the only option for me is to pay for it out of pocket (~$1000 for the full course), which seems kind of not worth it at this point.
      • yieldcrv39 minutes ago
        Best of luck, the reason it took so long for males to be approved for Gardasil use and they slowly keep pushing it up by age is two fold:

        1) if you've ever been exposed to HPV already, then the vaccine is useless

        2) there is no test to determine if a male has been exposed, although there is one for females

        so they just push the ages up by probability, over time. As the probability of a man being with an older and therefore unvaccinated woman decreases - since with women is the most probable - the age can rise

        • elric32 minutes ago
          > 1) if you've ever been exposed to HPV already, then the vaccine is useless

          This is patently incorrect. The vaccine protects against 9 variants. Having been exposed to all 9 before vaccination sounds like really bad luck.

          > 2) there is no test to determine if a male has been exposed, although there is one for females

          The female HPV tests, as I understand, only test for the presence of HPV in the cervix. It can be present in many other areas. No one is testing women for the presence of HPV on their hands or in their throats.

          Most places now offer HPV vaccines to young boys as well. People over 40 more or less missed the boat, but they can still get vaccinated. How useful it is depends entirely on their personal circumstances and risk profiles.

        • codesnik32 minutes ago
          this is what I don't understand, why is it useless? there're multiple variants, vaccination could create reaction to a different part of the virus, etc.
    • phkahleran hour ago
      >> HPVs are extremely common: 80% of men and 90% of women will have at least one strain in their lives.

      This statistic seems to be used by some people to avoid the vaccine - they figure they've already had it at some point. The biggest problem with that logic is that not all strains are as dangerous and they probably have not contracted 16 or 18 specifically. The other problem is there's still a good number of people who have never had it and shouldn't assume they have because its common.

      • TuringNYC29 minutes ago
        >>>>> HPVs are extremely common: 80% of men and 90% of women will have at least one strain in their lives. >> This statistic seems to be used by some people to avoid the vaccine - they figure they've already had it at some point. The biggest problem with that logic is that not all strains are as dangerous and they probably have not contracted 16 or 18 specifically. The other problem is there's still a good number of people who have never had it and shouldn't assume they have because its common.

        As people cite these statistics, it would be useful to distinguish exposure to HPV causing foot warts, etc from the much more dangerous variants. I rarely see any statistics do this sort of segmentation.

      • stared43 minutes ago
        But this misunderstands how HPV works. First, there are many strains. Typical tests for oncogenic variants measure around 30 types. The vaccine I received (Gardasil-9, which I took as a male at age 35) protects against nine specific strains.

        Second, the body normally clears HPV naturally after 1-2 years. However, natural infection often does not provide immunity, so reinfection can easily occur (even from the same partner or a different part of your own body).

        People often assume that HPV is either a lifetime infection or that recovery guarantees immunity - neither is the case!

        • hammock41 minutes ago
          Does the vaccine guarantee immunity, by contrast?
      • hammock41 minutes ago
        What about the people who know they have 16 or 18? Should they still get it?
      • michaelrpeskinan hour ago
        Yeah, I only read the abstract and looked at the plots, but this is what I hate about public health papers:

        They say the prevalence of virus is down. They don't say that the cancer rate is down (granted too early to tell), nor do they talk about any adverse events or all cause mortality differences (again, probably too early to tell)

        The only thing they can conclude is that the treatment given to stop the virus, stops the virus. But they don't mention any tradeoffs.

        Not trying to be an anti-vaxxer conspiracy theorist, but good science needs to talk about the whole picture.

    • timr23 minutes ago
      > While it won't clear an existing infection, it protects against different strains and reinfection (typically body removed HPV in 1-2 years). See: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/38137661/

      The study you've quoted here is not definitive evidence of the claim you're making, and that claim is...let's just say that it's controversial. Conventional wisdom is that you're unlikely to benefit from HPV vaccination unless you have not already seroconverted for at least one of the 9 strains (6, 11, 16, 18, 31, 33, 45, 52, 58) in the current vaccine.

      There's not much hard evidence to suggest that vaccination for HPV has any ability to protect after you've already been infected [1], and this study is small, unrandomized, and the measured primary outcome (anti-HPV IgG) doesn't really tell you anything about relative effectiveness at clearing an infection. The only real evidence they advance for this claim is:

      > Persistent HPV infection after vaccination was significantly less frequent in the nine-valent vaccinated group (23.5%) compared to the control group (88.9%; p < 0.001).

      ...but again, this is a small, unrandomized trial. We don't know how these 60 people differ from the typical HPV-positive case. You can't rely on this kind of observational data to claim causality.

      Vaccination is great, but let's not exaggerate or spread inaccurate claims in a fit of pro-vaccine exuberance. The HPV vaccine has age range recommendations [2] for a reason.

      [1] For the somewhat obvious reason that your immune system has already seen the virus.

      [2] I believe the current guideline is under age 45.

    • kace91an hour ago
      Is there any issue for adult males vaccinating ? I seem to remember some mention of risk by my doctor when I asked about it, but I might be misremembering.
      • donohoe40 minutes ago
        No vaccine is without risk, but the vaccine approach is based on that risk being so low (but not zero) in comparison to the risk of not vaccinating that it is vastly the better choice.
        • kace913 minutes ago
          Ok that was a bad question, let me rephrase: isn't there something particularly bad about this one for males that are already adults that makes it not recommended by doctors by default?
      • hammock43 minutes ago
        There is currently no vaccine that is zero risk
        • isodev29 minutes ago
          Life is generally not zero risk :)
          • hammock18 minutes ago
            I believe you are right. Including amorous congress and vaccines
    • formerly_provenan hour ago
      > - Sooner is better, but vaccination can be done at any age. Guidelines often lag behind, but vaccination makes sense even if you are currently HPV-positive.

      However, the vaccination is expensive (~1k) and it is difficult to find doctors who will do non-recommended vaccinations for self-payers.

      YCMV

      • nerdjon7 minutes ago
        Are there insurance plans that won't cover it? I know that a lot of plans love not paying for things but vaccines seem to be the one thing that they all at least seem fairly good at (at least in my experience).

        I am currently getting the HPV series and I only had to pay my copay for the first appointment have nothing for the second one (I am assuming it will be the same for the third)

      • elrican hour ago
        > However, the vaccination is expensive (~1k)

        Depends entirely on where you are and what your healthcare situation is. Mine cost me ~100eur.

        • oblio30 minutes ago
          This is ultimately an American site so you can assume 80%+ of comments come from a US background (I'm not American, I've just been here longer than I should have).

          (even for rest-of-the-world topics)

    • gnerd0018 minutes ago
      as an ordinary person, I see almost zero throat cancer cases in decades of living. Meanwhile pharma companies are working with Kaiser Health to constantly push new vaccines of all kinds, as if they are required. Bill Gates has fantasies of requiring vaccinations of hundreds of millions of people, and was formally barred from enacting in the US. I see a profit and power motive with weak, scared people acting as foot soldiers, and mercenary companies as professional actors. Bad, bad combinations IMHO.
      • hiddencost14 minutes ago
        Who is feeding you this? Vaccines are some of the most unambiguously positive things ever developed, they're an easy win.
  • coreyh144443 hours ago
    Just a quick point as an American living in Denmark, one of the reasons government programs like this work so well is everything is delivered digitally. We have "e-boks" https://en.digst.dk/systems/digital-post/about-the-national-... official government facilitated inboxes so when they need to notify you of vaccinations or whatever else, it arrives to your inbox. And basically 100% of residents use these systems.
    • tokai2 hours ago
      I fail to see how e-boks makes this work. Younger people check their e-boks less frequently than average, so sending a physical letter to their address would work just as well if not better.

      What makes it work is the public registers.

      • silvestrovan hour ago
        e-boks sends a text message to the phone, so I see it much faster than a paper mail.

        e-boks is like gmail (and others) in that it keeps your old mail. So you can easily find old stuff, a great improvement on paper mail.

        I don't even check my physical mailbox once a week.

        Denmark is one of the very most digital countries. Physical mail is very much on the way out. We no longer has mailboxes to send mail, you have to go to a shop to send letters, which now cost at last $6 per letter due to the low amount of mail sent.

        It is only a matter of less than 10 years before letters will be fully gone.

        • tokai6 minutes ago
          Thats all besides the point. Which was that e-boks is not making vaccine programs possible or successful.
    • closewith2 hours ago
      Okay, well Ireland has similar vaccination rates, broader childhood vaccination coverage, and no central medical records at all, so while e-boks may assist administration, it's certainly not necessary.
      • disgruntledphd2an hour ago
        > no central medical records at all

        Which is bad, we definitely should have them. Referral data appears to be managed through Healthlink, which may just be a privatised not always used medical record system.

        • closewith44 minutes ago
          I'm a proponent of EHRs but not necessarily of centralised medical records, which have not been shown to improve outcomes and which do impose serious privacy risks on patients.

          HealthLink is a messaging system and stores no EHRs at all. eHealth is the National EHR programme aiming to roll out EHRs by 2030 nationwide.

          It will be a no-opt-out centralised EHR and combined social care record.

    • Muromec2 hours ago
      [flagged]
      • closewith2 hours ago
        So should a desire for privacy preclude access to routine vaccination?
        • lostloginan hour ago
          How private are you wanting to be? If they don’t know your current status you’d get spammed all the time for various things.

          If you want full privacy you’d get no notifications and would have to go and ask for various things which you many not know exist.

      • nathanaldensr2 hours ago
        In high-trust societies these things work, yes. Not all societies are high-trust. Often, they once were high-trust but are no longer thanks to sociopathic, non-empathetic actors.
        • throwawayqqq112 hours ago
          Funny, how the unreasonable cycle of alternating votes for establishment parties is broken by voting for even more untrustworthy right wing parties.

          We all need something like ranked/list voting and incorporate invalid votes into the result so urgently.

          • Forgeties792 hours ago
            I do think people put too much stock in how many things RCV would fix in the US, but I am a big fan of it and it would certainly be a big first step improving representation in this country. Unfortunately, multiple states (all Republican dominated) have already outlawed RCV as an option. So in order to do it you would have to overturn the existing ban as well. It’s ridiculous.
        • closewith2 hours ago
          High trust societies generally don't need centralisation to provide positive outcomes.
        • emil-lp2 hours ago
          > Often, they once were high-trust but are no longer thanks to sociopathic, non-empathetic actors.

          Citation needed.

          • hagbard_c2 hours ago
            Go and look around in former high-trust societies where this trust has broken down or is breaking down - my points of reference are the Netherlands, Sweden, Germany and to a lesser extent the UK - and you'll get your citations. What you'll probably find is that in 'marginalised areas' people have trust in governmental institutions - those which provide social welfare, healthcare, schools and such - while they have little trust in 'other (groups of) people'. In other words they trust the state but distrust their neighbours, especially those from different ethnic groups. If you look in more well-to-do areas you'll find the opposite: people mostly trust their neighbours but they have lost trust in the higher echelons of the state which in their eyes has been instrumental in the dissolution of their former high-trust society. They'll still mostly trust their local police and fire brigade but they see academia and the social workers and soft-on-crime judicial institutions it produces as part of the problem. Any articles produced by academia which claim to provide proof of the opposite are seen in the light of the severe political bias in those institutions - sociology as a discipline has lost nearly all trust due to this - so citing those only feeds the fire.
            • tokai2 hours ago
              Sweden is not a society were trust has broken down. Neither is Germany. Maybe the Netherlands can be argued to have a breaking down of trust. Go look at actual data, and don't rely on racist internet memes to form your arguments.
              • inglor_cz41 minutes ago
                In neighboring Denmark, where they do gather and publish crime stats by the country of perp's origin, it turns out that some people (like Somalis) have up to 10 times more criminal convictions than the country baseline.

                https://x.com/jonatanpallesen/status/1993654135917257214/pho...

                One would have to be crazy in order to extend exactly the same trust towards a random Danish Dane vs. a random Somali Dane.

                Not every negative statement about non-white people is rooted in racism, and the ugly, fanatical attitude "everyone who has a negative observation about any sort of immigrants must be racist, stupid and evil" is what upended the political spectrum and brought the far right to power in many places.

              • hagbard_c2 hours ago
                I said where this trust has broken down _or is breaking down_ - the latter is what is happening in the mentioned countries.

                First answer and you directly go to 'racism', that's a rather poor effort. Put some more thought into your replies if you want to be taken seriously.

                • tokai2 hours ago
                  I know you said or is breaking down. I'm telling you that its only for Netherlands you can argue a drop in trust. I'm sorry that you take the racist label as an insult. But the Sweden has fallen talking point is a racist lie, so don't perpetuate it if you don't want to be called out on it. Again I invite you to look at data on trust, and stop making stuff up.
                  • CalRobertan hour ago
                    I moved to the Netherlands a couple years ago and it seems pretty nice, curious what evidence there is trust has dropped.

                    The government’s appalling failure wrt housing seems like a pretty valid reason for young people to distrust institutions tbh.

                  • hagbard_can hour ago
                    Why do you think AfD is close to becoming the biggest party in Germany, why is (or was?) Wilders big in the Netherlands, why is Sverigedemokraterna close to becoming the biggest party in Sweden? Do you think suddenly 25% of the population of these countries has turned rabidly racist?

                    That 'racism' word has lost its meaning due to severe overuse, find another argument. As to finding 'data', that is easy enough if you ask people around you. I live in Sweden and I hear this every day, everywhere, both in the countryside where I live as well as in the more urbanised areas on the west coast where I work and where my daughter goes to school.

                    If you want to get a bit closer to the actual truth than your knee-jerk 'racism' accusation you should look into the clash of cultures - not races - which lies at the bottom of these problems. Go and speak to people from low-trust societies as well as those from high-trust societies and ask them where they put their trust, how they think about their neighbours - not just the ones in the house next door but also those in other areas.

          • Forgeties792 hours ago
            Trump rode to the White House pitching that the government is broken/corrupt and as an outsider he would fix it. A significant part of his appeal is that he was a big middle finger to the establishment and current system writ large. This is well studied, documented, and easy to see in our daily lives. How many campaign ads begin with “the system is broken” or “Washington is out of touch”? Nobody ever lost voters for saying the government isn’t doing enough for them and isn’t trustworthy.

            You can look at any Gallup or Pew poll or whatever sources you prefer and you will likely see that Americans have been steadily losing trust in their government. It has been in steady decline since the post-war era with some notable brief increases, but they don’t last.

            >citation needed

            I disagree as it is incredibly easy information to track down. But here you go anyway:

            https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2025/12/04/public-trust...

            • arowthwayan hour ago
              Obviously social trust in the US has declined and Trump benefited from that. But this is not evidence that the primary cause is sociopathic, non-empathetic actors. Theoretically it could also be things such as increased diversity, loss of shared identity, people acting in good faith but failing to adapt to social media.
              • Forgeties79an hour ago
                That’s fair. I focused on the broader question for some reason. I’ll blame it on morning brain.

                I’ll ask you this: Do you think Donald Trump is a socially adjusted, empathetic person? A lot of people like him currently because he is a bully.

                Edit: I think Nixon is another person whose character deserves scrutiny. His decisions shattered a lot of people‘s perception of the US government.

  • kasperni3 hours ago
    It has really been a great success in Denmark.

    In the 1960s, more than 900 people were diagnosed with cervical cancer each year, corresponding to more than 40 cases per 100,000 Danes.

    Today, that number is below 10 per 100,000 nationwide – and among women aged 20 to 29, only 3 out of 100,000 are affected. This is below the WHO’s threshold for elimination of the disease.

  • nextos3 hours ago
    Lots of viruses are really oncogenic. The real success here is the ability of Denmark to track effectiveness. It sounds crazy but most countries do not have electronic health record capability to measure the effect of many interventions at population scale. Once good EHRs are rolled out, we will be able to double down on effective interventions, like this one, and vice versa.
    • shevy-java2 hours ago
      "Lots of viruses are really oncogenic."

      Hmm. Compared to what measurement? Most viruses are actually not oncogenic.

      From cancer causes, oncogenic viruses are thought to be responsible for about 12% of human cancers worldwide:

      https://www.mdpi.com/2079-7737/14/7/797

      From what I remember, most viruses are not oncogenic in nature, so I am unsure whether the statement made is correct.

    • closewith2 hours ago
      EHRs are definitely not necessary for health surveillance and many countries perform equally or better without centralised records.

      I'm a proponent of EHRs, but the key value is at patient-level, not population level where other approaches perform equally well.

    • spiderfarmer3 hours ago
      Sadly, no matter how good the data is, some societies will value opinions of uninformed celebrities above facts and reason, leading to a resurgence of preventable diseases.
      • shevy-java2 hours ago
        The numbers are quite solid. People who don't want to accept the numbers, need to come up with an explanation why the data can not be trusted. With regard to oncogenic HPV, I think the data is very convincing. To me it was a lot more convincing than the SARS covid datapoints (e. g. the media constantly shifted; I noticed this with regard to Sweden, which had a bad early data due to barely any protection of the elderly, but lateron it still had better data than e. g. Austria which went into lockdown - so Austria had worse data points than Sweden overall. Japan or Taiwan had excellent data points, so the respective governments were much better than either Sweden or Austria. The most incompetent politicans acted in Austria during that time, replacing facts with promo and propaganda. The data points, though, were always solid. I remember I compared this about weekly and it was interesting to me when Austria suddenly surpassed Sweden negatively; the media here in Austria critisized Sweden early on, but once Sweden outperformed Austria in a better, more positive manner, suddenly the media no longer reported that. Private media simply can not be trusted.)
      • jacquesm3 hours ago
        These celebrities should serve some jailtime. Quackery is criminal, it kills people.
        • alecco3 hours ago
          Agreed. But we should also stop enabling celebrities when they push popular agendas even if they are correct. For example, climate change.
          • shevy-java2 hours ago
            Celebrities in general are quite dubous. See a certain actor suddenly promoting Palantir spysniffing on mankind. I decided that guy won't get a dime from me for the rest of my life - when actors suddenly become lobbyists for Evil, they need to not get any money from regular people really.
        • bethekidyouwantan hour ago
          Exhibit a: “not quackery”
        • im3w1l2 hours ago
          Idk the Danish approach of opennnes seems to be working for them. They acknowledge it isn't fully effective. They acknowledge that there may be a small risk of side effects. And they tell people it's worth it and to go take it.

          "Since HPV vaccination was implemented in the Danish childhood vaccination programme in 2009, we have received 2,320 reports of suspected adverse reactions from HPV vaccines up to and including 2016. 1,023 of the reported adverse reactions have been categorised as serious. In the same period, 1,724,916 vaccine doses were sold. The reports related to HPV vaccination that we have classified as serious include reports of the condition Postural Orthostatic Tachycardi Syndrome (POTS), fainting, neurological symptoms and a number of diffuse symptoms, such as long-term headache, fatigue and stomach ache."

          "The risk of cervical changes at an early stage was reduced by 73% among women born in 1993 and 1994, who had been vaccinated with the HPV vaccine compared with those who had not been vaccinated."

          "The Danish Health Authority recommends that all girls are vaccinated against HPV at the age of 12. The Danish Health Authori- ty still estimates that the benefits of vaccination by far outweigh any possible adverse reactions from the vaccine."

          https://laegemiddelstyrelsen.dk/en/sideeffects/side-effects-...

          • tokai2 hours ago
            Its not like it wasn't without issues. You had the documentary from a state funded tv station that uncritically let people claim all kind of issues after getting the vaccine. It drastically lowered the uptake of the vaccine.

            https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6288961/

          • jacquesm2 hours ago
            > They acknowledge it isn't fully effective. They acknowledge that there may be a small risk of side effects. And they tell people it's worth it and to go take it.

            Those are basic bits of knowledge that apply to most vaccinations.

            The problem is that the quacks diminish the positive effects, exaggerate the negatives and engage in a campaign of fear mongering that costs some people (and in some cases lots of people, see COVID) their lives. They are not only clueless, they are malicious.

            From Gwyneth Paltrow, JFK Jr, all the way to Donald Trump and a whole raft of others the damage is immense. I have a close family member who now is fully convinced of the healing power of crystals and there isn't a thing you can do to reason with people that have fallen into a trap like that.

            • bethekidyouwantan hour ago
              But maybe you have fallen into a trap? Maybe believing in crystals is their own damn fault rather that jailing “influencers” for inducing wrong-think.
              • jacquesm37 minutes ago
                People are gullible. Those that prey on the gullible are culpable, the gullible have problems enough as it is.
  • shevy-java2 hours ago
    The data is IMO quite convincing. Harald zur Hausen pointed this out decades ago already; this is another data point that adds to the theory which back then he proposed was fairly new (not that viruses cause cancer, that is much older knowledge, but specifically the role of some HPV strains; Harald died about 2 years ago).
  • garbawarb3 hours ago
    > Infection with HPV types covered by the vaccine (HPV16/18) has been almost eliminated. Before vaccination, the prevalence of HPV16/18 was between 15–17%, which has decreased in vaccinated women to < 1% by 2021. However, about one-third of women still had HPV infection with non-vaccine high-risk HPV types, and new infections with these types were more frequent in vaccinated than in unvaccinated women.

    I wonder if we'll those non-vaccine strains will eventually become the most prevalent.

    • perlgeek3 hours ago
      Sounds like in countries like Denmark, they are already on their way to becoming the most prevalent.

      Hope we'll develop vaccines against those too.

      • IndrekR2 hours ago
        In my EU country Gardasil 9 is the most common HPV vaccine nowadays. This protects against 9 most common strains. I would assume the same is true in other countries. We have gone from HPV 16/18 -> +6/11 -> +31/33/45/52/58 protection with 2/4/9-valent vaccines.

        Ref: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HPV_vaccine

  • esafakan hour ago
    At what age can you start getting vaccinated?
  • afarah12 hours ago
    A comment with an article citing published medical literature on risks associated with this type of vaccine was flagged and hidden. Why? I don't know the author nor am I a medical doctor to understand the topic at depth, so it's a genuine question. Was it misleading? If so, how? That's what the comment was asking, actually, if there were counter-points to the text, which was favorable to live vaccines (e.g. shingles) but critical of those developed with other methods. Is there no merit to that? I genuinely don't know, and since it seems impossible to discuss the topic, it's hard to say.
    • wpietrian hour ago
      I sometimes vouch for incorrectly flagged posts. You got me curious, so I took a look. What I found was a blog from an anonymous conspiracist vaccine opponent claiming to be a doctor. He's a decent writer but in my estimation a loon.

      So I'm fine with it being flagged and decline to vouch for it.

  • Traubenfuchs3 hours ago
    Everyone already knows!

    HPV vaccination leads to massive reduction in nasopharyngeal, penile and rectal cancer in men.

    The focus of messaging around HPV vaccination on ovarian cancer, female fertility and the age limitations for recommendations / free vaccination in some places are nothing short of a massive public health failure and almost scandal.

    Just truthfully tell the boys their dicks might fall off and see how all of them quicklky flock to the vaccine.

    • jorvi2 hours ago
      > Just truthfully tell the boys their dicks might fall off and see how all of them quicklky flock to the vaccine.

      Every male above the age of 26 is locked out of the vaccine unless you pay out of pocket, which will be €300-€500 (or even higher).

      It's led to this really weird situation, where HPV vaccination for men is now recommended up to 40s but only covered up to 26yr old, and that recommendation upgrade happened relatively recently. Which means there's a whole generation of men who are told they should get the vaccine, who would have had covered access to the vaccine in the past, but are now expected to go out of pocket.

      • nerdjon3 minutes ago
        This seems to be changing in some areas. I am in the US, in my 30's, Male and I only had my $30 copay for the first visit (nothing for my second shot)
      • tecleandor2 hours ago
        Yep, I paid for mine. male/43/Spain. Almost €400. Two shots of the nonavalent vaccine, ~€190 each.

        For younger people it's three shots (second after two months, third after 6 months of the first one), now for older (over 30s or 40s, I can't remember exactly) it's recommended to get two shots (second after six months).

    • spiderfarmer3 hours ago
      [dead]
    • blell3 hours ago
      [flagged]
      • port30003 hours ago
        That's not what they are saying. Read it again.
        • blell2 hours ago
          That’s exactly what they are saying. Read the last part.
    • nephihaha3 hours ago
      [flagged]
      • tokioyoyo3 hours ago
        If people stopped driving, we would have zero car crashes.
        • nephihaha2 hours ago
          [flagged]
          • resoluteteethan hour ago
            A better comparison would be saying that we shouldn't have seat belts because people should be driving more carefully in the first place.
      • matthewmacleod3 hours ago
        This adds nothing. It has been repeatedly shown that stupid abstinence-driven approaches to public health do not work. It’s equivalent to saying “maybe the obesity crisis would be solved if we all just ate less”.

        Moral crusades have zero place in public health and are actively harmful.

        • bluGill3 hours ago
          This isn't an abstinence driven approach it is a marry 'young' and then only that one partener for life.
          • matthewmacleodan hour ago
            That just seems like abstinence with extra steps.
          • ulfw3 hours ago
            What a truly sad life
            • nephihaha2 hours ago
              Not as sad as catching something which will damage you physically, sterilise them or even kill them.

              People don't want to hear this obviously. But it is a fact STI transmission has skyrocketed since the so called sexual revolution of the late sixties. Within fifteen years, we has an AIDS epidemic.

              • CalRobertan hour ago
                Gen z are depressed, lonely, and less sexually active then their predecessors, so you may see your desired change come to pass.
              • matthewmacleod38 minutes ago
                But it is a fact STI transmission has skyrocketed since the so called sexual revolution of the late sixties

                It’s the opposite of a fact. Gonorrhoea rates as an example rose significantly in the 1960s, but are now lower than in the 1940s and 1950s. This is thanks to good public health measures.

                Start by making sure you’re accurately informed.

            • nxm2 hours ago
              And yet countless couples followed this path in life and are happy
              • CalRobert2 hours ago
                Many miserable people married young and are trapped until they die.
              • isbvhodnvemrwvnan hour ago
                Same goes for people who did not.
              • tpm2 hours ago
                And countless couples followed this path in life and are not happy at all, and countless individuals can't for a variety of reasons follow this path. But public health advice should also be available to them.
                • nephihaha2 hours ago
                  Psychology is a whole other matter, but if you're talking about sleeping around like Bonnie Blue then it is a form of Russian roulette and is likely to result in physical health trouble. Especially if people are having unprotected sex.

                  HPV spreads through oral sex as well by the way.

                  • tpm2 hours ago
                    I am not talking about 'sleeping around' at all. Just by the look at the divorce rates around the world it is very clear that 'marry young and then never change partners' is an advice divorced from reality.
                    • nephihaha2 hours ago
                      Divorce is horrible for sure but that is mainly down to interpersonal relationships.

                      It is a simple fact that unprotected sex with large numbers of people is very risky. We should have learnt that lesson in the eighties.

                      • wpietrian hour ago
                        If there's somebody out there advocating for "unprotected sex with large numbers of people", you should go post at them, because I don't see that here.

                        The biggest barrier to disease transmission reduction, at least here in the US, is uncritical abstinence promoters like yourself. It works, at best, for a small fraction of the population, and leaves the rest woefully unprepared for the biological realities. The best solution to STDs is education. Which, yes, should emphasize that not having sex is an option, but cannot stop there.

        • nephihaha2 hours ago
          [flagged]
          • Krssstan hour ago
            > Disease transmission becomes prevalent if people keep doing the things which spread it

            The solution to covid/flu is wearing well-fitting masks and vaccines rather than never getting out.

            The solution to STIs is good protection with vaccines, condoms and tests.

            Religion can stay out of that.

          • matthewmacleodan hour ago
            Yeah that’s a moral crusade. It’s a public health issue; you deal with it through public health measures like education, vaccination, and treatment. You don’t make it go away by wagging your finger at it.
    • potato3732842an hour ago
      You could probably have gotten away with it a decade ago but that is a very poor plan in the far more critical of public health world of today.

      Statistically nobody even knows a guy who knows a guy who's dick fell off. Serious HPV problems for men are not even common enough to be viable urban legend. The nanosecond someone who took your bait shows up to be interviewed by some Youtube talking head about side effects the already severely damaged (compared to, IDK a decade ago) credibility of the medical establishment will go up in flames.

      You need to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth and let people make their own decisions. People don't "trust the experts" anymore at the scale you need for stuff like vaccination campaigns so you have to operate based on that reality.

      • elric39 minutes ago
        Apparently HPV is responsible for some ~70% of throat cancers and ~30% of penile cancers in men. Seems pretty significant to me.

        If nobody knows a guy who knows a guy who had penile cancer, that's probably because people are very bad about talking about genital health. I'm sure some of the men in my life have issues with erectile dysfunction, enlarged prostates, hemmorrhoids, etc. But no one is talking about those issues.

        • potato373284228 minutes ago
          And how many men get throat and penile cancers vs other cancers and health issues? There's a reason old men crack jokes about prostate health, erectile dysfunction and incontinence rather than their dicks falling off and are way more worried about colon cancer than rectal cancer.

          I didn't say it wasn't a significant source of cancer. I said that nobody knows a guy who knows a guy who's dick fell off or some other extreme outcome. You need to be honest with people, not try and scare them like it's 1990 and DARE is the new hotness.

          The public messaging you're trying to engage in could perhaps have skated by in a less critical time but in the current environment it will be counterproductive.

          I don't want my kid or my grandkid to get measles or some other "of immediate consequence" disease because you people sullied the reputation of public health chasing a rounding error.

          • elric9 minutes ago
            > "you people"

            JFC. I'm checking out of this conversation.

  • m00dy2 hours ago
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  • zerofor_conduct2 hours ago
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    • aniviacat2 hours ago
      > Despite this being clearly shown within the HPV vaccine trials, since testing before vaccination would reduce vaccine sales, it was never recommended within the prescribing guidelines (some groups even said to not test before receiving the vaccine).

      Citation needed. In Germany, the HPV vaccine is recommended only to below 14 year olds, so as to reduce precisely that risk.

      https://www.rki.de/SharedDocs/FAQs/DE/Impfen/HPV/FAQ-Liste_H...

  • albatross79an hour ago
    [flagged]
    • jmpmanan hour ago
      You sound like my fellow citizens who have decided to use their theocratic power to push this view across my city and school. It impacts my children and their future mates. Sure, there’s an ideal world in which every person finds their ideal partner on the first time, falls madly in love and remains forever faithful. I don’t live in a Disney fantasy world, and would prefer public health policies are based on pragmatic principles.
    • CalRobertan hour ago
      Celibacy isn’t great either.

      Also I’d really prefer my daughters not get cancer no matter their sex lives.

      • actionfromafar41 minutes ago
        That last line is key. Not everyone thinks like that, unfortunately.
        • CalRobert35 minutes ago
          The weird thing is all these people commenting who seem opposed to vaccination so that people are afraid to have sex.

          I mean if you support lifelong monogamy or similar sure, you do you, but I don’t think more dead people is a good thing to advocate to promote your lifestyle choice.

          I used to know a lot more people like that and I swear half of them left the church and had a hoe phase despite earlier professed beliefs.

  • wewewedxfgdf2 hours ago
    Do the conspiracy theorists believe it or not?