238 pointsby azhenley4 hours ago47 comments
  • crote2 hours ago
    > Why buy this book when ChatGPT can generate the same style of tutorial for ANY project that is customized to you?

    Isn't it obvious? Because the ChatGPT output wouldn't be reviewed!

    You buy books like these exactly because they are written by a professional, who has taken the time to divide it up into easily digestible chunks which form a coherent narrative, with runnable intermediate stages in-between.

    For example, I expect a raytracing project to start with simple ray casting of single-color objects. After that it can add things like lights and Blinn-Phong shading, progress with Whitted-style recursive raytracing for the shiny reflections and transparent objects, then progress to modern path tracing with things like BRDFs, and end up with BVHs to make it not horribly slow.

    You can stop at any point and still end up with a functional raytracer, and the added value of each step is immediately obvious to the reader. There's just no way in hell ChatGPT at its current level is going to guide you flawlessly through all of that if you start with a simple "I want to build a raytracer" prompt!

    • zdragnaran hour ago
      I heard the other day that LLMs won't replace writers, just mediocre writing.

      On the one hand, I can see the point- you'll never get chatgpt to come up with something on par with the venerable Crafting Interpreters.

      On the other hand, that means that all the hard-won lessons from writing poorly and improving with practice will be eliminated for most. When a computer can do something better than you right now, why bother trying to get better on your own? You never know if you'll end up surpassing it or not. Much easier to just put out mediocre crap and move on.

      Which, I think, means that we will see fewer and fewer masters of crafts as more people are content with drudgery.

      After all, it is cheaper and generally healthier and tastier to cook at home, yet for many people fast food or ordering out is a daily thing.

      • pinewurstan hour ago
        I have to disagree. My brother-in-law has started to use ChatGPT to punch up his personal letters and they’ve become excerpts from lesser 70s sitcoms. From actually personal and relevant to disturbingly soulless.
        • mikestorrent30 minutes ago
          Right? If I could get the same output by just talking to AI myself, what's the point of the human connection? Be something, be someone. Be wrong or a little rude from time to time, it's still more genuine.
          • pinewurst8 minutes ago
            His last letter was an update on a serious health issue. I care. It's not supposed to be a yuck fest, especially inorganic AI sludge.
            • alpinismea minute ago
              I’m honestly stunned that people use AI for personal communication. It seems so alien to me.
      • ok_dadan hour ago
        Your whole point is disproven by woodworking as a craft, and many other crafts for that matter. There are still craftspeople doing good work with wood even though IKEA and such have captured the furniture industry.

        There will still be fine programmers developing software by hand after AI is good enough for most.

        • brailsafe19 minutes ago
          > There will still be fine programmers developing software by hand after AI is good enough for most.

          This fallacy seems to be brought up very frequently, that there are still blacksmiths; people who ride horses; people who use typewriters; even people who use fountain pens, but they don't really exist in any practical or economical sense outside of 10 years ago Portland, OR.

          No technological advancement that I'm aware of completely eliminates one's ability to pursue a discipline as a hobbyist or as a niche for rich people. It's rarely impossible, but I don't think that's ever anyone's point. Sometimes they even make a comeback, like vinyl records.

          The scope of the topic seems to be what the usual one is, which is the chain of incentives that enable the pursuit of something as a persuasive exchange of value, particularly that of a market that needs a certain amount of volume and doesn't have shady protectionism working for it like standard textbooks.

          With writing, like with other liberal arts, it's far from a new target of parental scrutiny, and it's my impression that those disciplines have long been the pursuit of people who can largely get away with not really needing a viable source of income, particularly during the apprentice and journeyman stages.

          Programming has been largely been exempt from that, but if I were in the midst of a traditional comp sci program, facing the existential dreads that are U.S and Canadian economies (at least), along with the effective collapse of a path to financial stability, I'd be stupid not to be considering a major pivot; to what, I don't know.

          • uxcolumbo6 minutes ago
            Things that won't be automated anytime soon, like plumbers or electricians.

            Or double down on applied ML.

            • mhba minute ago
              Nurses.
        • ponector15 minutes ago
          Yet usually woodworking is not a viable business. As a craft - sure. As a day job to provide for your family - not really. Guys who created a custom tables for me five years ago are out of business.

          Pretty much the same story with any craft.

        • bryanrasmussenan hour ago
          high quality carpentry has a market of people who buy one off projects for lots of money.

          There is not really a similar market in software.

          I'm not saying there won't be fine programmers etc. but with woodworking I can see how a market exists that will support you developing your skills and I don't see it with software and thus the path seems much less clear to me.

          • CuriouslyCan hour ago
            Bro, there is a HUGE market for one off software projects for lots of money.
            • operatingthetanan hour ago
              I've been involved in building a multitude of saas apps and very few of them had any unique functionality. I'm not sure many of those companies cared about the uniqueness of their code.
              • suddenlybananas36 minutes ago
                Obviously, they care about the uniqueness of the code if they are one-offs.
                • operatingthetan34 minutes ago
                  My thought is that many of them thought their products were one-offs but were actually not in practice.
      • lokar31 minutes ago
        LLLMs replace bad writing with mediocre writing
      • an hour ago
        undefined
      • CuriouslyCan hour ago
        What is the inherent value of being able to write well?

        Is it not possible that people consider their craft to exist at a higher level than the written word? For example, writing facile prose is a very different from being a good storyteller. How many brilliant stories has the world missed out on because the people who imagined them didn't have the confidence with prose to share them.

        • andsoitis27 minutes ago
          Your last sentence is one answer to the question you ask in the first sentence.
    • lbotosan hour ago
      100% right. I buy lots of Japanese cookbooks secondhand. I found an Okinawa cook book for $8. When I received it, it was clear the author was just a content farmer pumping out various recipe books with copied online recipes. Once I looked up their name I saw hundreds of books across cooking baking etc. there was no way they even tried all of the recipes.

      So yes, review and “narrative voice” will be more valuable than ever.

    • antihipocratan hour ago
      Why buy the book when big AI can add it to their training data. Multitudes of people can then enjoy slightly higher quality output without you being compensated a single cent.
      • rectang34 minutes ago
        Yes, this is the big change. There’s no more financial incentive to create such a work because Big AI captures all the views it would have gotten and thus all the revenue potential.
    • alain94040an hour ago
      In my dream world, you take that book plus information about yourself (how good of a programmer you already are), feed that into AI and get a customized version that is much better for you. Possibly shorter. Skips boring stuff you know. And slows down for stuff you have never been exposed to. Everyone wins.
    • shimman2 hours ago
      Agreed. Still amazed that people keep trusting the service that has like a 60% failure rate, who would want to buy something that fails over half the time?

      Shame OP stopped their book, it would definitely have found an audience easily. I know many programmers that love these styles of books.

      • tokioyoyoan hour ago
        Unfortunately (fortunately?) it does not have like 60% failure rate. Yes, there’s some non-negligible error rate. But it’s lower than the threshold that would make the average user throw it into the bin. We can pretend that’s not the case, but it doesn’t even pass the real life sniff test.
      • alexpotatoan hour ago
        This reminds me of the VHS vs Betamax debate.

        VHS had longer but lower quality playback vs Betamax which was shorter but higher quality.

        It wasn't clear when VCRs came out which version consumers would prefer. Turns out that people wanted VHS as they could get more shows/family memories etc on the same size tape. In other words, VHS "won".

        Most people have heard the above version but Betamax was widely adopter in TV news. The reason being that news preferred shorter, higher quality video for news segments as they rarely lasted more than 5-10 minutes.

        My point being, the market is BIG and is really made up of many "mini-markets". I can see folks who are doing work on projects with big downside risk (e.g. finance, rockets etc) wanting to have code that is tested, reviewed etc. People needing one off code probably don't care if the failure rate is high especially if failure cases are obvious and the downside risk is low.

    • layer8an hour ago
      It would actually be nice to have a book-LLM. That is, an LLM that embodies a single (human-written) book, like an interactive book. With a regular book, you can get stuck when the author didn’t think of some possible stumbling block, or thinks along slightly differently lines than the reader. An LLM could fill in the gaps, and elaborate on details when needed.

      Of course, nowadays you can ask an LLM separately. But that isn’t the same as if it were an integrated feature, focused on (and limited to) the specific book.

      • jchallisan hour ago
        Tyler Cowen's GOAT book explores this in depth. Try it out! https://goatgreatesteconomistofalltime.ai/en
        • johnnyfivedan hour ago
          Genuinely have no idea what the novelty of this is for versus just uploading a PDF to ChatGPT. In terms of UX it is incredibly limited for a book evolution work.
      • vunderbaan hour ago
        I've not used it, but isn't this kind of what NotebookLM does?

        You drag a source into it such as a books PDF and then you have a discussion with it.

        https://notebooklm.google

        • layer835 minutes ago
          What I’m imagining is an LLM that is strongly tied to the book, in the sense of being RLHF’d for the book (or something along those lines), like an author able to cater to any reader interested in the book, but also confined to what the book is about. An LLM embodiment and generalization of the book. Not an LLM you can talk about anything where you just happen to talk about some random book now. The LLM should be clearly specific to the book. LLMs for different books would feel as distinct from each other as the books do, and you couldn’t prompt-engineer the LLM to go out of the context the book.
    • whyenotan hour ago
      > Isn't it obvious? Because the ChatGPT output wouldn't be reviewed!

      Reviewed by a human. It's trivial to take the output from one LLM and have another LLM review it.

      Also, often mediocrity is enough, especially if it is cheap.

    • cjayboan hour ago
      Does this type of ray tracing book exist? It’s something never learned about and would love to know what courses or books others have found valuable
    • WoodenChair2 hours ago
      Absolutely. And further because when you prompt ChatGPT as you write your ray tracer you don't know what the important things to ask are. Sure, you can get their with enough prompts of "what should I be asking you" or "explain to me the basics" of so and so. But the point of the book is all of that work has already been done for you in a vetted way.
    • pessimizer19 minutes ago
      > a professional, who has taken the time to divide it up into easily digestible chunks which form a coherent narrative, with runnable intermediate stages in-between.

      Tangentially related, but I think the way to get to this is to build a "learner model" that LLMs could build and update through frequent integrated testing during instruction.

      One thing that books can't do is go back and forth with you, having you demonstrate understanding before moving on, or noticing when you forget something you've already learned. That's what tutors do. The best books can do is put exercises at the end of a chapter, and pitch the next chapter at someone who can complete those exercises successfully. An LLM could drop a single-question quiz in as soon as you ask a weird question that doesn't jibe with the model, and fall back into review if you blow it.

    • layer8an hour ago
      I wouldn’t be surprised if publishers today delegated some of the reviewing to LLMs.
    • CamperBob2an hour ago
      There's just no way in hell ChatGPT at its current level is going to guide you flawlessly through all of that if you start with a simple "I want to build a raytracer" prompt!

      Have you tried? Lately? I'd be amazed if the higher-end models didn't do just that. Ray-tracing projects and books on 3D graphics in general are both very well-represented in any large training set.

      • snickerbockers10 minutes ago
        Isn't the whole point to learn and challenge yourself? If you just wanted to render a 3-dimensional scene there are already hundreds of open source raytracers on github.

        Asking chatgpt to "guide" you through the process is a strange middle-ground between making your own project and using somebody else's in which nothing new is created and nothing new is learned.

    • wyager6 minutes ago
      > Because the ChatGPT output wouldn't be reviewed!

      So what? If it's not already, frontier LLM one-shot output will be as good as heavily edited human output soon.

    • YouAreWRONGtoo2 hours ago
      [dead]
  • d4rkp4ttern2 minutes ago
    Amusingly, for a library [1] I’ve been building, 100% of the code is AI-written (with a huge number of iterations of course) and the ONLY part I wanted to write myself is the portion of the README that explains the thought process behind one of the features. It took a lot of thinking and iterations to come up with the right style and tone, and methodically explain the ideas in the right order.

    Leaving that to an LLM would have been a frustrating exercise.

    [1] https://github.com/pchalasani/claude-code-tools

  • atlasunshrugged3 hours ago
    I appreciate you sharing this! I just published my first book (nothing about programming, its about how the nation of Estonia modernized post re-independence and became a tech/e-gov hub in a single generation) and I can sympathize with a lot of this. My experience was a bit different -- I also knew the advance was going to be nothing and had a day job so I said I didn't need one (which was a relief for them as I was with a smaller publisher) and instead asked for more books to give away and some other contract terms. It took many months of negotiating to finalize the agreement and then they wanted the manuscript in ~7 months from contract signing. I guess they also assumed that I'd miss at least one deadline but instead I took a bunch of time off to get it done. I think the most important lesson for me is that book publishing, unless you're focused on trying to be the top 1% (maybe even .1%) in a popular category, is not going to be very lucrative, especially with a publisher that takes a major cut. It's easier than ever to go direct, in my case because I had a niche book and I wasn't doing it for money, I valued the prestige (or perceived prestige anyways) of having a book with a name brand publisher as I thought it'd be more helpful for my career in other ways, and candidly was mostly a passion project that I didn't feel strongly about monetizing!

    If any folks want to talk about nonfiction publishing, I'm always happy to chat as many people were incredibly generous with their time for me and I'd like to try to pay it forward.

    • 1010083 hours ago
      I feel 100% identified with you. I am working on a non ficton book about a niche topic and I wouldn't do it for the money at all. It's about the "prestige (or perceived prestige)". I am about to finish the first 1/3 of the book (the first draft, anyway), and I am already attempting to reach out to publishers to see if they would be interested in the book (at least the ones that don't require a literary agent!).

      Some of them already replied saying the proposal seems interesting but they want to read a few chapters. I don't know if I am in the right path or not, but I'd love to read more about your experience and what can be shared!

      • atlasunshrugged2 hours ago
        That's awesome, can I ask what the topic is? What I did for "selling" the book was to create a proposal -- about 45 pages that has a skeleton outline of each chapter (it changed significantly during the end writing process but gave the publisher a feel for the topic), a sample chapter, and some more sales/marketing details like what are comparable books (and how well they sold if you have that data), who your audience is and how you plan to reach them (OP was in a great place having a following), why you're the right person to write the book, etc.
        • 101008an hour ago
          45 pages as a skeleton? Wow. I wasn't expecting that much! I guess your book is +120k words? Do you think having a clear vision/structure helped when sending it to publishers?

          I think I lack all the last parts (that some publishers are requiring for) such as a social media platform to reach your potential readers. I find that a bit unfair because it means you first have to play the Instagram game and once you are popular there, you can write a book.

          If you give me an email address I'd love to tell you more about my book!

    • raybb2 hours ago
      Did you also write "Inspire!: Inspiration for Life and Life at Work" ?

      Goodreads seems to think so. https://www.goodreads.com/author/show/14291276.Joel_Burke

      • asveikau2 hours ago
        That one goodreads review for the Estonia book is amusing. One reader criticized him for providing references. I feel like that's a positive, not a negative, and if you find it uninteresting those tend to be easy to skip.
        • atlasunshruggedan hour ago
          Yeah, I have to admit because this was my first work I maybe overdid it in providing references because I wanted to default to having real historical data and not just writing a lot of personal opinions with no backing (it was a nightmare writing up that reference section but I'm glad I did it in the end) and if I'm being honest, because I'm not in academia and didn't have credentials as an "Estonia expert" I wanted to play it safe.

          Edit: Added some context and I'd also mention that one thing that was quite helpful is that at the start of the writing process I created a massive spreadsheet where I'd add in quotes, writing, and anything interesting I thought I might pull from (some of it manually written, like when watching documentaries). This was hugely helpful when I was going back but also during the writing process so I had a single source of truth I could keyword search. I've just checked it and its got 4787 rows, with most entries being about a paragraph long

          • asveikau37 minutes ago
            It sounds like you did the right thing and that guy is grumpy.
      • atlasunshrugged2 hours ago
        Ha, I didn't, I wish Goodreads would get a major update!
      • 2 hours ago
        undefined
    • RagnarDan hour ago
      Interesting handle (atlasunshrugged) - a reference to Atlas getting back to work rather than shrugging? (I know it's a book title.)
    • ipython3 hours ago
      What’s the name of your book? That sounds super interesting
      • RealityVoid3 hours ago
        Was wondering the same and went stalking in the profile. They named it a couple of days ago[1], apparently it's called Rebooting a nation

        1) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46398265

      • raybb3 hours ago
        Looks like this is the book: https://www.rebootinganation.com/

        Rebooting a Nation: The Incredible Rise of Estonia, E-Government and the Startup Revolution Paperback by Joel Burke

        • atlasunshrugged2 hours ago
          Yep, thats it, sorry for the slow replies, I'm out with family for the holidays!
          • raybb5 minutes ago
            Is there any way to buy your ebook book DRM free? I know that's not always easy for authors to make available but I thought I'd ask.
  • 578_Observer3 hours ago
    Reading the full context, this is a textbook case of a "Failed Pivot" driven by investors (the publisher).

    As a banker, I see the "Advance" not as a loan, but as an Option Fee paid for the author's future output. The publisher tried to exercise that option to force a pivot: "Inject AI into this classic book." They tried to turn a "Shinise" (classic craftsmanship) product into a "Trend" product. The author refused to dilute the quality, so the deal fell through.

    Keeping the advance is financially justified. The "R&D" failed not because of the engineer's laziness, but because the stakeholders demanded a feature (AI) that broke the product's architecture. In finance, if the VC forces a bad pivot and the startup fails, the founder doesn't pay back the seed money.

    • Gooblebraian hour ago
      Do they have to return the Advance in this case? Is there any case where it makes sense fo reject the Advance?
    • dparkan hour ago
      Where is the part where they forced a pivot? They asked for AI. He said no.
    • NedF2 minutes ago
      [dead]
  • redsymbol3 hours ago
    I had written and self-published three books, and in 2024 decided to publish the most successful one with O'Reilly. It went up for sale in December 2024.

    The whole experience was wonderful. I had basically none of the problems that this fellow experienced with his publisher, and I am delighted about how it went.

    I did some things differently. For one, I had already been selling the book on my own for a few years, and was essentially on the 3rd self-published edition. Because of this, they were able to see what the almost-finished product was.

    I told them I would not make massive changes to the book, nor would I contort it to the AI trend (the book barely mentions AI at all), and they never pressured me once.

    Their biggest contribution was their team of editors. This book has code on just about every page. I had 3 technical editors go through it, finding many bugs. How many? Let's just say "plenty".

    And the feedback from the non-technical editors was, to my surprise, even more valuable. Holy crap, I cannot express to you how much they improved the book. There were several of these folks (I had no idea there were so many different specialties for editors), and all of them were great.

    (They also accepted my viewpoint when I disagreed with them, immediately, every time. The final published version of the book was 100% my own words.)

    From all of that, I made improvements on what must have been almost every page, and rewrote two chapters from scratch. I also added a new chapter (I volunteered for it, no one at any point pressured me to do that). The result was making a book that IMO is at least twice as good as what I was able to accomplish on my own.

    I do not resonate with the article author's comments about compensation. He negotiated a pretty good deal, I think; it's not realistic to get much better than what he did, since the publisher is a business with their own expenses to pay, etc.

    I was pretty disciplined about meeting deadlines that we agreed to for certain milestones. That helped my relationship with the publisher, obviously.

    All in all, it was a great experience, and I am glad I did it this way.

    Reading the article, it sounds like my publisher (oreilly) was better to work with than his, but I think he could have done some things differently also. In the end, though, I agree with him that it was best to walk away in his situation.

    • pjc502 hours ago
      There's a reason that ORA have huge credibility in technical publishing, and have for decades: a reliably good product.
      • redsymbol2 hours ago
        That was definitely my experience.
    • impendia3 hours ago
      Did they let you choose the animal to appear on the cover?
      • redsymbol2 hours ago
        Haha good question. No, but I did not ask; I wanted to give them as much freedom as I could bear on aspects of the process I was not too attached to, so I let them pick.

        I will say I was very happy with the animal they came up with! If I was not, I would have asked them to change it, and I bet they would have. They showed me a preview version early on, so there would have been plenty of time to do so.

      • ssttoo2 hours ago
        I’ve published several books with them. Only once I asked and they managed to find the beast. They didn’t promise but they did deliver.
        • redsymbolan hour ago
          That's great! I am not surprised.
  • rasengan03 hours ago
    >"All of our future books will involve AI." >It is antithetical to the premise of the book (classic programming projects!) that they agreed to publish.

    I hope this trend is not industry wide. A publisher chasing fads and trends over enduring quality, so sad. I wish I knew who the publisher was to avoid but I can foresee their pivot to AI authors with titles like "From Zero to Hero, ChatGPT 5.2 Top Prompting Secrets for Dummies"

    • p_ing3 hours ago
      Technical books don't sell well to begin with. I've written a couple w/ a major publisher, it never paid back the RAM I needed to purchase to run the lab environment.

      Publishers are going to demand chasing the hot-new-thing which will most likely be irrelevant by the time the book is on the shelf.

      "How to write x86 ASM... with the Copilot Desktop app! - Build your bootloader in 15 seconds!"

    • Lalabadie2 hours ago
      The article hints at this, but publishers live on the outsize success of very few of their books, and the rest of them are losses.

      It's exactly the sort of financial pressure that will make them chase fads and trends, and it gets worse in difficult economic times.

    • raincolean hour ago
      You won't believe how bad things are where I live. We have a government-subsidized AI image generation course here.
    • DrewADesign2 hours ago
      Industry-wide? Looks damn near pan-industry to me
      • asveikau2 hours ago
        And most normal people are fed up with it. Nobody understands why most of their apps suddenly have chatbots in them now.
        • FeteCommuniste2 hours ago
          When a company whose services I use announces that they're adding AI to them, my first response is always to wonder how I can turn it off.
          • DrewADesign2 hours ago
            I don’t even bother looking anymore because it’s rarely possible.
    • hluska3 hours ago
      I’ve never worked in technical publishing but I have a few acquaintances who do. Adding chapters on AI is pretty close to industry wide for new writers. Experienced writers with sales figures have a lot more freedom.

      The thing is, it’s not about getting chapters published on AI. The publishers are keenly aware that AI is using their content to steal their market and so anything they publish on AI will be obsolete before the final manuscript is published. It’s about getting potentially difficult first time authors to quit before their first third gets approved - that’s when the author is owed their first advance.

      It’s a lot easier to slaughter sheep if the most docile select themselves.

  • WoodenChair3 hours ago
    Ironically, I was working on a book with a similar concept in the same time frame that came out as "Computer Science from Scratch: Interpreters, Computer Art, Emulators, and ML in Python" with No Starch Press a couple months ago. Like Austin's book it contains a CHIP8 chapter and a couple chapters on making a programming language. The difference with regards to his experience and my experience in writing it with a traditional publisher, is that I was an experienced author so I felt comfortable finishing the entire book first before shopping it around to publishers. I didn't want too much scrutiny around the core concept and I was getting similar signals of "every chapter must have AI."

    I wrote a similar blog post a month ago describing the process of creating the book and getting it published called "Writing Computer Science from Scratch":

    https://www.observationalhazard.com/2025/12/writing-computer...

    Some in this thread have wondered what publisher Austin was working with. Based on my experience working with three different technical publishers and the setup and terms Austin was offered, my educated guess would be Manning.

    I will critique the blog post a little bit. It's presented as a critique of the experience of working with the publisher, but ultimately I'm reading between the lines that the book failed because he was missing deadlines. He wrote that "life got in the way" and I think he lost his motivation only partially because the publisher wanted AI in more of the book. Many of the trials he had along the way: dealing with a development editor who wants to tailor your style to a particular audience, a technical editor who needs a couple chapters to warmup, back and forth on the proposal, etc. these are all really par for the course when writing a technical book. Ultimately you have to be self-motivated to finish because of course the development editor, technical editor, etc are going to disagree with you from time to time and try to push you in different directions. If that alone is so demotivating to you, it's just not for you to work with a publisher.

    PS I think his blog is really good and he should think about self publishing under a time frame and terms he is more comfortable with.

    • ghaff32 minutes ago
      Agreed. The one time I worked through a publisher I beat every schedule and it was all smooth enough.

      I’m glad I did it but I’m not sure how much the publisher added beyond some prestige and a few bucks. The first edition in particular I felt I needed to pad out a bit to meet length requirements.

    • firesteelrain2 hours ago
      I came away with the same impression. I was less blaming the publisher and more about life getting in the way with the author
    • eduction14 minutes ago
      I’ll also note that the publisher was right to bring up AI, even if they did not do it in an artful way. He himself comes to doubt the need for his book in the era of LLMs and he says that is part of why he cancelled. To his publisher’s credit they raised the issue early in the process where a pivot would have been more practical.

      In fairness to the author, he presents a reasonably balanced view and it did not read to me like “my publisher sucked.”

  • rodolphoarrudaan hour ago
    I'm writing my first book now. It's a novel aimed at teenagers and young adults, in a technical format similar to "The Phoenix Project" by Gene Kim et al., if you're familiar with it. It explores FOSS, non-proprietary file formats, digital preservation, cryptography, and the concept of freedom as a whole. I resonate with the author of the article who discusses motivation to write and the "existential crisis" that comes and goes almost every day. I've been fighting those negative feelings by adopting the mindset that I'm writing the book for myself. It's a book I've always wanted to read, which I can then lend to my teenage children so they can read it as well. Everything else (commercially speaking) will be a nice consequence of this endeavor.
  • aaronblohowiak3 hours ago
    The idea of doing a thing (or having done the thing) and the actual DOING of the thing are very different. See this a lot where people think they want to be a woodworker or a baseball player or an author, but the actual _work_ of sweeping dust, doing 200 hits a day off a tee or grinding out words by deadlines are not as appealing as the halo or mystique of the final product once made the activity seem. this doubles on the effect that humans are terrible at predicting what will make us happy. so, i am glad this author was self aware enough to follow their bliss, but the last paragraph made me wonder if their introspection was fully resolved.
    • JoeAltmaier31 minutes ago
      Every writing group has that person the keeps restarting their project, or abandoning a project when it gets hard, to start another one with another 'great' idea.

      The upshot is, they don't want to do the hard part - continuity editing, developmental editing, hell, just finishing the dang thing. Even the boring chapters you didn't really have any idea what was going to go on there.

      Writing, as an occupation, is a whole lotta schmoozing, attending conferences, volunteering, promoting. Maybe 1 month of writing a year, for 11 months of the hard stuff.

      I have a buddy who says he always wanted to start a bar. I said, You like budgeting? Taxes? Hiring? Firing? Stocking? Remodeling? Promoting?

      Nah; turns out, he just likes to hang out in bars.

      The only reason you start a business is, because you like to run a business.

      The only reason you become a writer is, because you like the business of writing.

  • analogpixel3 hours ago
    I would have 100% bought the book the author initially pitched. I could do without the junk the publisher wanted him to add, and really it would have probably caused me to not buy the book.

    I've come to hate every cookbook that starts with 100 pages of here is a tour of my pantry, which sounds a lot like, here is how to use pip!

    • WoodenChairan hour ago
      > I've come to hate every cookbook that starts with 100 pages of here is a tour of my pantry, which sounds a lot like, here is how to use pip!

      Yeah I agree. I hate when books do more hand holding than the reader clearly needs to the point of tedium. Plus many of those setup steps like how to use a package manager change over time and make the book stale instead of evergreen. And Austin was clearly not writing an absolute beginners book.

      That's why when I pitched both the Classic Computer Science Problems series and Computer Science from Scratch I explicitly told publishers in the proposals that I was not writing a beginners book (been there, done that). I was clear that I was writing an intermediate book for people that already know programming.

      It's a different, more narrow audience. But you can be successful if you write a good book. It's also a less tapped market and luckily publishers were able to see that.

    • skibidithinkan hour ago
      Just skip the chapter?
      • analogpixel41 minutes ago
        It uses up the preview in amazon, so you can't actually see the recipes in the book or if the recipes actually have pictures. All you can see is the default, here is my pantry.

        Another bonus feature, would be to remove: breakfast, appetizers, and salads from all cook books, or put them in the back where no one needs to look at them.

        Although I have found that cookbooks that don't include the useless fluff to pad the book out are usually much better, like the cookbooks from Milkstreet or Love and Lemons, So I guess it's actually a decent way to just filter out all the crap books.

    • bachmeier2 hours ago
      Honestly, I wouldn't consider publishing a book if it didn't have that information. There's no reason to give up half or more of the potential market for a book because it's arbitrarily pitched at advanced users. Assuming the customer knows how to use pip would be crazy.
      • analogpixel36 minutes ago
        Honestly I don't want to buy books that pander to the lowest common denominator so the author can make more money.
    • JumpCrisscross2 hours ago
      > I've come to hate every cookbook that starts with 100 pages of here is a tour of my pantry

      To each their own. As someone who learned to cook as an adult, I’ve appreciated seeing both what someone has and what nonsense I own that they manage just fine without.

  • sedatk2 hours ago
    I'm glad that I released my book in 2022 before AI-hype took off. I'm familiar with the type of publisher mentioned in the article too. Those are very strict in their format and content guidelines, and I had also felt that such constraints were limiting at times. I can relate. But, I also learned a lot from the process, and in the end, my book got fantastic feedback. It became one of the print bestsellers in 2022, and got translated to many languages. I've found the whole experience positive.

    But, I totally understand author's reasoning, and it's one of the reasons I want to explore different publishers as I want to deviate from writing strictly technical books.

  • milancurcic3 hours ago
    Thanks for sharing. I always enjoy reading author-publisher process articles as they get to the true behind the scenes story. I can relate to most things mentioned, and the terms seem identical to what I had when writing Modern Fortran with Manning. I also started with the intent to write for experts, but the publisher pushed for targeting beginners. The author can concede or (usually) give up the project.

    One important aspect to this is that a typical first-book technical author knows well the subject matter, and sometimes knows how to write too (but usually not, as was my case), but does not know how to edit, typeset, publish, market, and sell well. That's what the publisher knows best. And of course, they want sales, and they understand that overall beginner books sell better than advanced/expert level books.

    I encourage the author to continue writing and self-publish, and at a later time a publisher come to package and market a mostly finished product.

  • jdlshore2 hours ago
    Published author here (through O’Reilly, twice). A lot of people seem to be taking this as an indictment of the publisher. What I’m reading, though, is that the author didn’t make time to write the book and then lost interest. All the rest is normal stuff that happens when writing a book for a publisher. The author did a good job of standing up for themself and their vision, but a poor job of, you know, writing an actual book.

    The publisher expended time and money on the author and got nothing in return. This isn’t surprising, and it’s why first-time author royalties are so low.

    • crystal_revengean hour ago
      I've also authored multiple technical books and had the exact same reaction.

      While writing I have had similar feeling as the author to publisher/editor comments, especially related to:

      > The unhelpful feedback was a consistent push to dumb down the book (which I don't think is particularly complex but I do like to leave things for the reader to try) to appease a broader audience and to mellow out my personal voice.

      I also remember being very frustrated at times with the editor needing things "dumbed down". I used to get very annoyed and think "didn't you pay attention! We covered that!" But then I realized: If I can make this easy to understand by a fairly non-technical editor at a first pass, it absolutely will make this book better for the reader.

      Publishers have a lot of experience publishing books, so I've learned that their advice is often not bad.

      There was also plenty of advice from the editors I vehemently didn't agree with, so I pushed back and quickly realized: publishers need you more than you need them, so very often you do get final say.

      But you still have to actually write the book. Book writing is hard, and a much more complex process than writing blog posts. Personally I feel all the editorial feedback I've gotten over the years has made not only my books better, but also has really pushed my writing to be higher quality.

    • johnyzeean hour ago
      That's how I read this too. The publisher invested a non-trivial amount of work and was left with nothing, for no better reason than the author changed their mind. From the tone of the post, the author seems to not realize or care.
    • mold_aidan hour ago
      Yeah, I mean I hate to seem churlish about this, but I really didn't read this with sympathy for the (would-be) author.
    • dparkan hour ago
      > the author didn’t make time to write the book and then lost interest

      That was my read as well. The book deal fell apart because the author never wrote most of the book.

    • dangusan hour ago
      If the author of this article just finished the book the publisher would have just published it without much fuss and probably without any significant changes.

      The author had all the leverage regarding content. It’s not like the publisher could actually incorporate what they were asking for with AI, they still need an author to do that and it was a totally new subject at the time. Their demands were empty.

      I don’t think the author would have finished the book if it was self-published. They clearly didn’t want to write a book that badly.

      Not to say that finishing a whole-ass book is easy, I’m certainly not going to pretend that’s the case.

      I’ve lately been trying to finish more side project type things in my life because these dead ends themselves feel empty to me. I am trying to set scope reasonably and then just finish even if it’s painful or there’s no confetti-style payout and nobody else cares.

  • w10-13 hours ago
    Writing for publication is a ridiculous amount of work, smoothing and digesting to the point of pablum, because it's just hard to please everybody. Now that LLM's can tailor to chapter-level discussions, why write?

    Still, that's what it takes to reach N > friends+students.

    It's beyond ironic that AI empowerment is leading actual creators to stop creating. Books don't make sense any more, and your pet open source project will be delivered mainly via LLM's that conceal your authorship and voice and bastardize the code.

    Ideas form through packaging insight for others. Where's the incentive otherwise?

    • carlosjobim21 minutes ago
      When you have original information that hasn't been released anywhere else in the world, why would a book be a bad choice?
  • syntaxing3 hours ago
    This was quite a fun read and I appreciate the insight. A couple of my peers have suggested me to write a “stuff you should know” book. Some technical in nature (like linear algebra. It blows my mind how many engineers hardware or software do not understand linear algebra) and some not technical (why stuff cost the way they do. “Why does this cost $200 when I can make it for $20!”). But reading your post was encouraging to see that self publishing for fun might be the way to go. Though I guess people would argue you can just ask a LLM now instead of reading my book.
    • jimnotgyman hour ago
      I think I could ask an LLM to explain linear algebra. I think it would be less good at the 'here are some things you should know' aspect. One reason for this is that people might not ask, but the LLM might not agree with your list anyway.

      I think there is still a place for a book here. I think I might buy a book (or may have done 10 years ago when I was still coding) of things you should know (especially from a respected publisher), that being a longer form book I could work through over time.

    • soperj3 hours ago
      that'll only be the case if you actually write the book so that the LLMs have that info. Until then they can't regurgitate your know-how.
  • ajkjk17 minutes ago
    i wish you'd kickstart the same project and do it your way somehow

    the publisher's interests were making it all worse

  • apwheele23 minutes ago
    The such low royalties make folks seriously consider self-publishing if you think you can get any sales. (And if you do not need a copy-editor.)

    So I have only around 150 sales of my book (see notes at https://andrewpwheeler.com/2024/07/02/some-notes-on-self-pub...). I make around ~$30 though net (average between on-demand print and epub). So my measly sales are about the same as the advance here (not clear if this was ever paid out, presume they would get it back if it was paid out).

    If you really think you can sell thousands of copies the economics of it really should hit you.

    I get going through a publisher will increase sales, but if you have a popular platform already to advertise it (like a blog or other popular social media), I just don't get it.

  • didip3 hours ago
    You didn’t share the complete deal details but just from what you shared, it seems like the payout is not worth it for this big of an effort.

    What if you self publish yourself using Amazon toolings? Will the numbers be worse? At least you will be in charge of your own quality and deadlines.

    • bruce5112 hours ago
      For most books, but technical non-fiction in particular, the payout isn't nearly worth enough for the effort.

      And by "most" there I mean "all". Yes, there are exceptions, but those exceptions prove the rule.

      I've written 2 technical books, for incredibly niche audiences, where the total number of potential buyers is numbered in the low thousands.

      I self published as a PDF. and charge $200 a copy, of which I keep $200. It's -marginally- worth it. But the hourly rate is much lower than my day job.

      The marketing benefit (as it affects my actual business in the same field) is likely real, but hard to measure. Still, having "written the book" opens doors, and brings credibility.

      • jimnotgyman hour ago
        A mentor once told me, 'half of the effect of marketing is hard to measure, the other half you have no idea'
      • levocardia2 hours ago
        Disagree, a blog that gets tens of thousands of unique visitors could clear huge numbers on KDP. Maybe your niche is too narrow (probably, given your TAM is in the thousands) but this post is about "timeless programming projects" and is going to be extremely broad. The number of hits to the blog is itself an indicator of a very big and very eager potential market.
  • spooneybarger3 hours ago
    This sounds like my experience with a "major" technical publisher except we managed to get to the end.

    I'd say that almost no one should work with the major technical publishers more than once. There's some good basic skills you learn but otherwise, they contribute very little that you couldn't get done on your own.

  • neilv2 hours ago
    > Cons of a publisher: [...] they actually do little to no marketing of your book.

    Unless the publisher has already written off a book, don't they have incentive to market it?

    There are some low-cost things you can do to market a book, and they reportedly make the difference between no sales, and some or many sales.

    And a publisher can learn the currently effective marketing methods, and then apply that skill across books of many authors.

    • levocardia2 hours ago
      No, their incentive is to wait and see what books are taking off, then pile on the money when they know it's already a winner. Today, unproven authors are expected to do their own marketing.
      • neilv2 hours ago
        For the marketing that has significant costs (e.g., paying for ads, paying for show appearances, paying other influencers to plug, making quality videos for social media, travel for events).

        But it costs almost nothing to do ARC readers for reviews and ratings, and it's free to time things for the Kindle store algorithm. You just have to know to do it, when.

        And there's some other "free" marketing that publishers should have automated by now, because they can amortize that across many book releases.

  • testing223213 hours ago
    I’ve self published a few books now on Amazon. I put $0 down, they take care of everything and I get a deposit into my account every month.

    I’m doing it again soon for my next book. It’s fantastic, though having a following online is helpful to get the word out

  • reactordev2 hours ago
    Sounds like your publisher was trying to just take your work and sell it. Giving you the least amount you’ll agree to.

    Self publishing is the way. The internet is your Barnes & Noble. Finish the book and publish it yourself. Sell it for $20. Market it. Have peace.

    • dparkan hour ago
      > Sounds like your publisher was trying to just take your work and sell it. Giving you the least amount you’ll agree to.

      That’s literally what a publisher does.

      • reactordevan hour ago
        I work in games, I know how publishing works. My point was about the pay. For us, that equation is flipped.
  • conartist62 hours ago
    That sounds like 2025. Everything is "required" to be about AI. Gooodbyee you silly year!
  • miyoji3 hours ago
    This is why most publishers won't even talk to you unless you have a finished manuscript already, but I appreciated this look into a different situation.

    I hope you finish the book. I would buy it.

    • WoodenChair2 hours ago
      > This is why most publishers won't even talk to you unless you have a finished manuscript already

      This is absolutely not true in the world of technical publishing. I mean books published with publishers like O'Reilly, Manning, No Starch, etc. Usually you come to them with just a proposal and a couple chapters or even just a proposal. Or their acquisition editors actually reach out to you. It's the exception (not quite rare, but definitely less than 20% of books) that comes to them with a finished manuscript. I did that with my last book. I've published 5 technical books across three different technical publishers, so I know a bit about this business...

      I'm just replying to this comment to not discourage people who just have an idea and not a finished book yet but have the motivation to finish and want to get a deal.

    • squirrel3 hours ago
      This is not true for business books like mine. It's vital to write a proposal first in that world; publishers want to influence the content (as in the OP article).

      I think the same is true for tech books but I don't know as I haven't written one.

      A novel or other fiction is the opposite; there you do have to write the whole thing first.

  • zkmon3 hours ago
    This story is a prototype of thousands of other stories going on right now. Of course we can't blame the book businesses. They are in survival struggle. They have no clue what to do. Every business is barely holding onto whatever that might keep them in business. AI is bad, but it is the new mafia in the town. Just erase all your beliefs instincts and make friends with it.

    Maybe write a book about "Classic projects using AI", whether it makes sense or not. And use AI to write that.

  • mrlonglong18 minutes ago
    Good for you.
  • barishnamazov3 hours ago
    Thanks for sharing! I have been dreaming of writing (or better yet, finding!) a similar book for a couple years now. A hands-on guide that peels back the layers of abstraction to teach how things actually work under the hood by building them yourself. I hope one of us gets to it one day :-)
  • an hour ago
    undefined
  • kmoser3 hours ago
    I'm surprised the contract didn't obligate you to return most or all of the advance after canceling.
    • onraglanroad3 hours ago
      The first half of the advance was to be paid after the first third was approved.

      They never got to that point.

    • metaphor3 hours ago
      I don't think he ever got the first half of the advance...cherry-picking from the TFA:

      > They offered a $5000 advance with the first half paid out when they approve of the first third of the book and the second half when they accept the final manuscript for publication.

      > I continued to get further behind on delivering my revised draft of the first 1/3.

      > Around this time, there was a possibility of me changing jobs. Oh, and my wedding was coming up. That was the final nail in the coffin.

      > There were too many things going on and I didn't enjoy working on the book anymore, so what is the point? I made up my mind to ask to freeze the project.

      > They agreed.

  • manicennuian hour ago
    Are the people who are really into "AI" even buying books anymore?
    • an hour ago
      undefined
  • henry_flower2 hours ago
    That was super interesting!

    I think you should self-publish. With your existing audience, you'd sell plenty of copies, and nobody would push "AI" into your work.

  • rahulrav2 hours ago
    I would have purchased your book ! I just wanted to say thank you for writing (your blog). It is a joy to read.
  • legitster3 hours ago
    Traditional publishing is a weird world. They have the shortsightedness to want to force AI into everything. But also it sounds like they still assigned human technical editors who took the job seriously.
  • daedrdev3 hours ago
    Something like 80 percent of published books with an advance never even make back their advance, in case you were wondering why royalties are so low.
  • _lex3 hours ago
    You're witnessing a collapse of demand. Do not ignore it - though it may not be permanent.
  • mdavid626an hour ago
    I'd definitely buy this book!
  • vasco41 minutes ago
    > There was also a daunting voice in the back of my head that LLMs have eliminated the need for books like this. Why buy this book when ChatGPT can generate the same style of tutorial for ANY project that is customized to you?

    Why have sex with your wife when you can buy her a dildo?

  • LoganDark43 minutes ago
    Nice of them to transfer back the rights when they terminated the contract! I haven't heard of anyone not doing that, but it feels suspiciously not always a given if they have to specify explicitly.
  • kevmo3 hours ago
    I killed a book deal I had for this book I mostly finished:

    https://kevmo.io/zero-to-code/

    I inked the deal in 2023, but shortly after felt like the market was too dead for newbies. When I initially removed the website for the book, I got a small wave of complaints, so I guess some folks still found it helpful.

  • nospice3 hours ago
    I am honestly a bit puzzled by this description and I wish they had named the publisher. I'm fairly familiar with this space and the usual experience with tech publishers is that they don't get all that invested in what they publish because 99% of technical books sell somewhere between 500-5,000 copies. That's barely enough to pay the copyeditor to do the bare minimum (often paying attention only for the first couple of chapters), then pay the layout guy, then the proofreader.

    The usual accounts I've heard from my friends who published with Wiley, Addison-Wesley, or O'Reilly is that they sign up, get some in-depth feedback on the first couple of chapters, and then are on their own. I've never heard of a tech publisher exercising this level of creative control. I don't doubt that this happened, but it just sounds out of the ordinary.

    • antirez3 hours ago
      The 500 - 5000 figure, which is correct, is why most folks should instead self publish via KDP. 70% royalties mean you can get 10-50k easily with an average book. If the book is a success, you can switch career to a full time author if you wish. All this with full creative freedom. Many years ago, I canceled my Redis book for a large publisher for similar reasons to the OP: too many "do it this way" requests.
      • nospice3 hours ago
        In general, yeah. The hard-to-replicate benefit is professional editing, but this is something that most tech publishers skimp on. There are some "premium" outlets where you get some real attention, but the default Wiley experience is definitely not worth 70%.
    • OGEnthusiast3 hours ago
      > I am honestly a bit puzzled by this description and I wish they had named the publisher.

      Does it matter which exact one if all the publisher oligarchs behave exactly the same?

      • qarl3 hours ago
        He wants more information because the story doesn't ring true, in his experience.
      • nospice3 hours ago
        Yes, because as far as I know, they don't behave like that.
  • apt-apt-apt-apt3 hours ago
    "12% of total sales ..."

    Me: That doesn't sound too bad! They keep 12% of the profit, leaving him 88%!

    ".. and then 15% [after that]"

    This reminds me of the scene in Queen of the South. FL (female lead) is new to power, negotiating some deal.

    Guy: How much?

    FL: Unsure how much to take 10%.

    Guy: Thinking her cut is only 10%, seeing her as weak Oh.. heh.

    FL: Detects her mistake For you.

    Guy: Face gets red, angry But.. but..

  • egorfine3 hours ago
    > "All of our future books will involve AI."

    What an incredible take. It is both so wrong on so many levels and also technically correct, akin to saying "All of our future books will involve spellchecker."

    I hate it.

  • websiteapi3 hours ago
    "All of our future books will involve AI."
    • SoftTalker3 hours ago
      In the era of AI, who is going to buy books?
  • threethirtytwo3 hours ago
    I don’t see the publisher doing anything wrong.

    You “froze” the contract instead of telling them you intended to stop all together and it also seems like you didn’t return their advance.

    • azhenley3 hours ago
      You are reading a lot of things that I didn't say.

      The publisher didn't do anything "wrong". It was their suggestion to freeze it instead of cancel immediately. I didn't intend on giving up on the book even then. I didn't return the advance because I never received the advance.

      • threethirtytwo3 hours ago
        ah my mistake then. Looks like either party didn't do anything wrong.
    • smlavine3 hours ago
      It says the first half of the advance would be paid on approval of the first third of the book. It also says that the first third of the book was never submitted. So I don't think the advance was ever paid out.
  • koalacola2 hours ago
    AI slop
  • banbangtuth3 hours ago
    Wow this is the first time I encountered this blog! Subscribed!
  • k__3 hours ago
    Somehow, I miss the time when I was writing a book. It's nice to do the work and research and also nice to refine. Getting money later without doing much anymore was also cool.

    But my consecutive attempts of writing a book failed because of my ADHD and missing guidance. I can't do employment, but I really need someone to "nag" me 2-3 times a month to keep focus.