134 pointsby bearsyankees2 months ago13 comments
  • ISL2 months ago
    Avelo assists ICE daily with deporting people from the United States:

    https://bsky.app/profile/jjindc.bsky.social/search?q=avelo

    • mattmaroon2 months ago
      Can’t load that but don’t they all? I can’t imagine any airline telling the federal government no.
      • ISLa month ago
        It is likely that many airlines accommodate people who are being deported as regular passengers on outbound international flights.

        For movement of humans at industrial scale, though, there are only a few operators with ICE contracts. Avelo, GlobalX, Eastern, Key Lime Air, and Omni come immediately to mind. For international flights, there's at least one Learjet operator that flies a bunch for them, too.

        These days, the aforementioned carriers fly 20-30 flights/day. Here are Saturday's flights (apologies for the sign-in wall, but lalabote keeps their account somewhat locked down): https://bsky.app/profile/lalabote.bsky.social/post/3mai6lach...

      • apical_dendrite2 months ago
        I think Avelo is the only airline that participates. The rest are charter companies.
        • ISLa month ago
          Key Lime Air operates daily airline flights as Denver Air Connection in addition to their charter work for ICE and others.
      • 2 months ago
        undefined
    • Scoundreller2 months ago
      > Search is currently unavailable when logged out

      Can you hook us up with some deep links?

    • dogemaster20322 months ago
      [flagged]
    • thedrbrian2 months ago
      [flagged]
      • saikia812 months ago
        good question. After reading his passionate plea for the immigrants, anyone would ask your question.
  • jbergler2 months ago
    The 6 hour claim is interesting, but I highly doubt Avelo (or any airline) would handle 100k requests/sec

    If we consider that the real major's move about 400k-500k passengers/day, let's be really optimistic and say that they check their booking 6 times a day for the week before they fly. That's around 250 requests/sec.

    Anyone know about the consumer facing tech stacks at airlines these days? Seems unlikely that they'd have databases that would auto scale 400x...

    • kiklion2 months ago
      I doubt their API would handle 100k requests per second. That math was roughly indictive of what the cost to send 100k requests per second would look like. He did mention that that was assuming the target didn't have rate limiting, either intentional or just pure limits of the hardware.
    • bronco210162 months ago
      Cloud API gateway providers advertise ~10,000 rps.

      I think more likely the API would be behind some kind of bot protection that would shut this down before any kind of technical rate limit is reached.

  • mtlynch2 months ago
    >The Avelo team was responsive, professional, and took the findings seriously throughout the disclosure process. They acknowledged the severity, worked quickly to remediate the issues, and maintained clear communication. This is a model example of how organizations should handle security disclosures.

    Sounds like no bug bounty?

    It's great if OP is happy with the outcome, but it's so infuriating that companies are allowed to leak everyone's data with zero accountability and rely on the kindness of security researchers to do free work to notify them.

    I wish there was a law that assigned a dollar value to different types of PII leaks and fined the organization that amount with some percentage going to the whistleblower. So a security researcher could approach a vendor and say, "Hi! I discovered vulnerabilities in your system that would result in a $500k fine for you. For $400k, I'll disclose it to you privately, or you can turn me down and I'll receive $250k from your fines."

    • edent2 months ago
      > I wish there was a law that assigned a dollar value to different types of PII leaks

      There is. It is called GDPR.

      Plenty of companies have been fined for leaks like this.

      Some countries also have whistleblower bounties but, as you might expect, there are some perverse incentives there.

      • mtlynch2 months ago
        Yeah, as an American, I'm jealous of many aspects of GDPR. I really appreciate you blogging / tooting about experiences protecting your rights under GDPR. I wish we had 1/10th of the consumer privacy protections you have.

        How does security research like this work out in practice, in the EU?

        I read a lot of vulnerability writeups like this and don't recall seeing any where the author is European and gets a better outcome. Are security researchers actually compensated for this type of work in the EU?

      • advisedwang2 months ago
        The GDPR (in art 32) only requires that "the controller and the processor shall implement appropriate technical and organisational measures to ensure a level of security appropriate to the risk". I expect it's quite common for a company to get hacked even if they meet that level. I think the parent comment was imagining that any leak is automatically fined, regardless of whether the company had met some security requirement.
      • samuria2 months ago
        Does GDPR mandate a payout to the researcher after disclosure?
      • billy99k2 months ago
        The GPDR makes it so small companies need to hire expensive lawyers to be compliant (and you still don't know for sure, based on the laws)

        How about fining individual developers with poor coding practices?

        • immibis2 months ago
          No it actually doesn't. It just needs someone in the company executive to not have their head up their ass, and read the law, which is fairly straightforward.

          Also, it needs your company's business model to not be selling user data. That's why American companies find it hard to comply with.

        • matthewmacleod2 months ago
          It does not mean this.
    • bossyTeacher2 months ago
      > it's so infuriating that companies are allowed to leak everyone's data with zero accountability and rely on the kindness of security researchers to do free work to notify them.

      This is a matter for lawmakers and law enforcement. Campaign for it. Nothing will change otherwise

  • dboreham2 months ago
    Always consider rate limiting if you deploy a public endpoint. Always require authentication to perform resource-consuming and/or privacy leaking requests. (Requiring authentication makes rate limiting more practical since even a distributed attacker would need many credentials, which they probably don't have).
    • cake2 months ago
      Any tips on how to define the rate limits for a web app with moderate traffic? For logged and anonymous users?
  • didgetmaster2 months ago
    The lack of needing the last name might have allowed a hacker to brute force the whole list; but it seems that even with a last name, it could expose a lot of PII. Just pass codes along with popular last names (Smith, Jones, Nelson, etc.) and it seems like it could spit out a bunch of reservations.
    • miki1232112 months ago
      I'd go for wang, Li and Zhang instead, maybe also Patel and Nguyen. Asian countries have a much more skewed surname distribution.
    • morpheuskafka2 months ago
      Yes, it's also an issue when someone posts their bag tag/boarding pass/booking email online.

      But that's the "industry standard" for checking a reservation online. Requiring airline login doesn't work because of tickets issued by travel agents or other airlines.

    • codethief2 months ago
      Exactly, I came here to say this!

      > This two-factor system is generally secure. The space of all 6-character alphanumeric confirmation codes combined with all possible last names is astronomically large, making it impossible to “guess” a valid pair.

      Depending on the threat model, the attacker's goal might not be to guess a single pair but to access any valid pair (of a booking with a flight date in the future, or maybe even in the past). Suddenly you're looking at thousands of valid booking codes and the attacker can try a couple dozen of common names. Brute-forcing valid pairs then becomes relatively easy.

  • commandlinefan2 months ago
    > They were responsive, professional, and took the findings seriously, patching the issues promptly.

    The "issue" is that they're returning the entire PNR dataset to the front-end in the first place. He doesn't detail how they fixed it, but there's no reason in the world that this entire dataset should be dumped into Javascript. I got into pretty heated arguments with folks about this at Travelocity and this shit is exactly why I was so adamant.

  • miki1232112 months ago
    Do we know what GDS Avelo is using? In other GDSes, is the confirmation code always sufficient to fully identify a booking? I was under the impression that PRLs could be re-used as long as the passenger surname was different.

    The space of all possible PRLs is about 2 billion, I can imagine a really big Airline moving that many passengers.

    • rootsudo2 months ago
      They use a service of Sabre but not Sabre GDS. it’s called Radixx.

      Yes in other GDS, it can be enough to identify a full booking. That’s why airlines prefer ticket or coupon number since the first two digits are the airline ticket stock / identifier and then fare codes, etc

      The requiring last name, and more info is more or less security since any pss system can query the airline first for that combination before requiring more info to return a match.

      • lxgr2 months ago
        6 alphanumeric, case insensitive characters only allow for about 2 billion unique combinations. I’d have guessed there were more reservations made than that?

        Or are PNR locators recycled after a while?

        • bleepblap2 months ago
          Yes, I've got in my drawer two physical boarding passes with the same PNR
    • aardvark1792 months ago
      Confirmation codes are not sufficient on their own, they cycle through them relatively quickly so they have to be combined with things like the passengers family name to actually identify the booking.
  • CtrlAltNerd2 months ago
    Great work, very impressive find.
  • RealSoyboyRoy2 months ago
    > I immediately disclosed this to the Avelo team. They were responsive, professional, and took the findings seriously, patching the issues promptly.

    (emphasis my own)

    Sorry but I strongly disagree with this phrasing. This is a company "serving over 6 million customers since its 2021 launch" (from Google) that took four weeks to patch an embarrassing security flaw, after being handed all the details on a silver platter.

    Imagine a food chain serving a million meals a year was revealed to be storing their food products in unsanitary conditions, and it took them a full month to correct this. That story would make national headlines, not to mention they could get promptly shut down by any competent health ministry.

    I think this attitude mostly reveals how complacent we've become about these """incidents""": we just expect this to happen, everywhere and all the time, then we just shrug and say "they fixed it within a month, how responsible of them".

  • 2 months ago
    undefined
  • klysm2 months ago
    Annoying sensationalist writing, but good find!
  • mattmaroon2 months ago
    Major? Avelo?
    • s1mon2 months ago
      Agreed. I read the headline as "... US Airlines' ..." not "... US Airline's ..." and it seemed much more concerning. Instead it's a single airline I've never heard of. Looking them up, they are more established than I might have guessed (started as Casino Express Airlines 38 years ago, but current incarnation is only 4 years old), but also pretty small - roughly 1/100 the staff and 1/50 the fleet of United.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avelo_Airlines

      • mattmaroon2 months ago
        Ha I guess I flew them in a past incarnation but didn’t know that.
  • Nextgrid2 months ago
    This is about a non-rate-limited endpoint providing ticket data given a booking code only (and not last name as it's usually the case), which makes it feasible to bruteforce the entire search space.

    (unfortunately, I feel like AI was overused in authoring the writeup)

    • filearts2 months ago
      Is it really AI slop if someone leverages AI to improve / transform their novel experiences and ideas into a rendition that they prefer?

      I'm not suggesting whether or not the article is AI assisted. I'm wondering if the ease of calling someone's work "AI slop" is a step along the slippery slope towards trivializing this sort of drive-by hostility that can be toxic in a community.

      • Nextgrid2 months ago
        You are right about the toxicity, I will edit my comment.

        There's a difference between leveraging AI to proofread or improve parts of their writing and this - I feel like AI was overused here; gave the whole article that distinctive smell and significantly reduced its information density.

    • dado32122 months ago
      What makes you say that? This didn't read like AI slop to me.
      • Nextgrid2 months ago
        Overuse of bulleted lists, unnecessary sensationalism, sentences like "The requests flew. There was no WAF, no IP blocking, no CAPTCHA." and so on. It reeks of someone pasting some notes into a chat prompt and asking it to spruce it up for publication.
      • PKop2 months ago
        Pattern recognition skill issue then. It did to me.

        "The fallout"

        This flaw was critical.

        And other vibes. You know it when you see it, though it may be hard to define.

        • mmooss2 months ago
          > You know it when you see it

          How do you know your perception is accurate? One of humanity's biggest weaknesses is trusting that kind of response.

          • PKop2 months ago
            Maybe just try having confidence in yourself. Trust your instincts. I'm not going to impugn my own abilities based on some purported flaw in an abstract amorphous blog called "humanity", whatever that is. A lot of individuals of distinction have many characteristics better than the average, why wouldn't I trust myself more than other people?

            Pattern recognition is a many millions of years evolved ability best exemplified in the "human" species by the way, so I basically disagree with your whole premise anyways.

            • tempsaasexample2 months ago
              The Brown killer was basically caught by a homeless man getting a bad vehicle about the future shooter. So I agree, trusting your gut is definitely a thing.
            • mmooss2 months ago
              People believe in witchcraft and lots of other things - including many horrible prejudices - just as confidently as you. There's a reason any scholarship, courts, medicine, and any other serious endeavors require objective evidence.

              Imagine that - doctors, who have seen everything, have years of study, treat all those people, still require objective evidence. Anyone in IT looks for objective evidence - timing, stepping through code, etc.

              Confidence doesn't correlate well with accuracy; in fact the more someone expresses your kind of confidence, the less I rely on them at all.

              What if you wrongfully accuse someone? Does that matter? Are you responsible for the consequences of what you do?

              • PKop2 months ago
                You turn your brain off and outsource your thinking to other people, because you're incapable of perceiving reality for yourself, is what you're telling me.

                Of course everyone is responsible for their accuracy and their errors, doesn't mean it's impossible to infer things based on observation experience and intuition. This is an evolved ability, but I do agree some people are better than others like most things.

                You're conflating a lot of things. Many prejudices are accurate and prudent, which craft is stupid, but so what? I'm not going to deny my perception on something that's correct just because some other idiot believes in magic; non sequitur.

                • mmooss2 months ago
                  It's really a bizarre argument. You are making evidence-free claims, based on nothing - including the things you say about me. It discards all of critical thought, empiricism, reasoning, philosophy, etc. ....
          • verall2 months ago
            It's definitely AI dude
            • mmooss2 months ago
              Have you ever tested your accuracy? I think there are tests out there.
        • sallveburrpi2 months ago
          What is the AI slop version of “This looks shopped. I can tell from some of the pixels and from seeing quite a few shops in my time.”

          ?

          • A4ET8a8uTh0_v22 months ago
            'Having seen this cognitive payload a lot in my time' maybe? I like the idea.
      • tverbeure2 months ago
        > This incident is a stark reminder

        A stark reminder is a stark reminder about the existence of AI slop. You see the phrase a lot in social media comment spam.

      • delfinom2 months ago
        There's an emdash, no human being uses emdashes.