74 pointsby ivankra3 hours ago18 comments
  • tschellenbach2 hours ago
    The title here mostly doesn't match the article right? Quote: "But unlike the capital growth tax, capital gains tax will, in principle, only be levied at the time of realisation. This is usually when the relevant asset is sold, but also when immovable property exits Box 3 for another reason, such as emigration."
    • ivankra2 hours ago
      Looks like they're coining a new legal term "Capital Growth Tax", under which they are going to tax unrealized capital gains. I'm not aware of any other country that taxes them like that (besides wealth/exit taxes), so maybe they're the world's first here!

      Some countries have wealth taxes - but they are usually flat or scale with wealth, not the yearly increase in wealth. Note that currently NL does de facto have a wealth tax in Box 3 system - shares are presumed to have a fictional fixed yield of around 5-6% per year on which they charge you income tax, so it works out to about 2% wealth tax.

      • mbesto2 hours ago
        > I'm not aware of any other country that taxes them like that (besides wealth/exit taxes), so maybe they're the world's first here!

        Real estate taxes.

        > not the yearly increase in wealth.

        Real estate taxes.

        • ivankraan hour ago
          For real estate, yes, but it's a quite different type of asset with a stable value that (mostly) only goes up.

          What about stocks or crypto? They can have wild value fluctuations in a year. If your crypto or startup's options have +1M paper gain this year and turn worthless the next year, is it fair to ask people to cough up some 300-500k of real cash in tax?

      • 2 hours ago
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      • itake2 hours ago
        > I'm not aware of any other country that taxes them like

        My home's property taxes operate this way. The county calculates the current value of my home and charges me a % of that in taxes every year.

    • TulliusCicero2 hours ago
      Yeah but the previous paragraph says

      > The bill regarding Box 3 introduces two main categories of taxation: capital growth tax and capital gains tax. The capital growth tax will apply to most assets, taxing both realised and unrealised returns, including appreciation in value and income from assets like shares, cryptocurrencies, and savings. Exchange results on bank balances in currencies other than EUR will also be taxed.

      And normally unrealized capital gains on these sorts of assets aren't taxed.

    • icegreentea22 hours ago
      I think in more general usage if you asked people what assets "taxing unrealized capital gains" would cover, you could get a basket if things like shares, real property, businesses, etc.

      The article indicates that the Dutch government has decided to treat startups and real estate under the bucket "capital gains", and stuff under "capital growth".

      So for an more informal standpoint, the title is a reasonable way to summarize what's happening to the layish person.

    • kingstnap2 hours ago
      As I understand it most things like stocks with be under the capital growth scheme, taxed yearly, but they left a carve out for real-estate where it only is levied at sale/realization time.
      • appreciatorBus2 hours ago
        Classic loophole. We tell ourselves this is to protect the little people who own homes, but the actual little people don’t have homes at all and rent. Meanwhile, anyone with money will get the picture invest all of it in real estate, once again enriching homeowner as well impoverishing the rest of us.
        • icegreentea22 hours ago
          It's true that it's a carve out, and current young generations are having huge problems getting homes in a lot of the world.

          But in the Netherlands, the overall home ownership rate is still about 70 percent (https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/databrowser/view/ilc_lvho02__c... might need to drill down a little).

          In the US it's 65 percent.

          Carve outs for home owners are some of the most understandable political strategies across the developed world.

          • appreciatorBusan hour ago
            I totally get that it’s an understandable political strategy. I just think it’s in defensible as anything but a political strategy, and that it will ultimately make life worse for more people versus simply treating assets as assets, including homes. If homeowners do not wish their homes to be treated as assets, then they could simply forgo the right to profits, but I suspect they will not do that.
        • tempestn2 hours ago
          In a way I agree with you that this will cause market distortion in the form of greater demand for real estate over eg. equities. But there are plenty of such tax distortions; for example many countries have favourable tax treatment for domestic dividends.

          Regardless, I assume the logic behind this exception is that while you can easily sell a portion of your holdings of publicly traded stocks to cover your annual tax burden, you can't sell a portion of a house. You could of course finance, but that's going to disproportionately benefit lenders.

        • alexanderchran hour ago
          Home ownership is and would continue be taxed in box 1, so that’s not even superficially the reason for carving out real estate.

          Box 3 on real estate only come in play for home 2+, and rental properties.

        • bongodongobob2 hours ago
          Only 29% of people in the Netherlands rent and that number is decreasing.
          • appreciatorBusan hour ago
            Yes, exactly, this policy will result in 29% of people who don’t own real subsidizing the 70% who do.
    • dang2 hours ago
      Ok, we've put box 3 in the title above. Thanks!

      (Submitted title was "Netherlands to start taxing unrealized capital gains yearly from 2028")

    • andsoitis2 hours ago
      “The capital growth tax will apply to most assets, taxing both realised and unrealised returns, including appreciation in value and income from assets like shares, cryptocurrencies, and savings.”
  • clickety_clack2 hours ago
    About a year ago, Draghi released this report on European Competitiveness (https://commission.europa.eu/topics/competitiveness/draghi-r...). In it he says "A key reason for less efficient financial intermediation in Europe is that capital markets remain fragmented and flows of savings into capital markets are lower."

    I don't have data readily to hand (and Draghi probably mentions this in the report, I can't remember), but anecdotally based on what I hear from many of my European friends, Europeans basically keep their savings in bank savings accounts. That means that there is less investment capital floating around, which in turn means that the tiny fraction that finds its way into innovation is in turn greatly diminished. Europeans are dependent on bank loans for funding, and banks want to see assets as security for their loans.

    Policies like this would further disincentivize Europeans to invest in their own stock markets, further damaging the ability of Europeans to innovate.

    • itake39 minutes ago
      > Europeans basically keep their savings in bank savings accounts.

      USA is not much different. The wealthiest 10% of the U.S. population holds the vast majority of stock market wealth. Recent data shows this group owns around 90-93% of all stocks, with the top 1% controlling about half of the total household equity.

      Many people hold cash in savings to prepare buying a house, paying for a child's college and more. IMHO, there is also less short-term need to invest your money as an adult.

      If you're happy with your job and don't need the extra money (or risk), then why invest in the stock market?

  • askmike2 hours ago
    To summarize the current Dutch personal income system: besides income from salary and income from own business (these are taxed quite high), income from investments (stocks, passive investments, real estate excluding your first home) is taxed quite low. The amount is simply a percentage based on the value (as per the start of the year) of your investments.

    So in the Dutch tax system there is no difference between realized and unrealized gain. As such it doesn't matter when you buy/sell your investments. It doesn't impact your tax burden. The effect you get is that everyone's wealth just slowly erodes away, just like with inflation (unless your yield outpaces that).

    But with this new law that all might change.

    • lateforwork2 hours ago
      That seems like a reasonable approach. That's much preferable to a tax on realized gains and a tax on unrealized gains. In the US when you buy a mutual fund you're already paying a "tax", for example, Fidelity eats 0.83% if you invest in their FSLVX mutual fund [1].

      [1] https://fundresearch.fidelity.com/mutual-funds/summary/31612...

      • dwightgunningan hour ago
        That's not a tax, that's the expense ratio, which is basically describing fees captured by the fund manager. Funds accessible to Dutch investors involve similar ERs. It's not an alternative.
        • lateforworkan hour ago
          Yes, the tax can be thought of an extra expense ratio. Same impact on you, at the end of the day.
  • lordofgibbons2 hours ago
    How are situations like lack of liquidity to pay the taxes handled?

    i.e, As an employee you get stock options, which you exercise when you leave the startup. Then long before the company has a liquidity event the FMV shoots up because the business is doing well. How do you as a wage worker pay the taxes on your paper riches without a way to sell your shares?

    • temp24411392 hours ago
      I guess there would be all sorts of megacorps happy to loan you money for this with your assets as collateral.

      Remember London and Amsterdam have extremely strong finance industry lobbying, and that shows up in their lawmaking.

      • itake2 hours ago
        I know several people that got cleaned out in IPOs partially due to how taxes work on no-liquidity (lockout) periods. If you IPO'd at $10 ($3 goes to the tax man), and when you can finally sell it 6mo later and stock is only worth about $3, the IRS makes more money than you.

        Checkout what happened at Uber [0].

        My cousin at Aurora borrowed money for his tax bill on IPO. I don't know the final numbers, but I hope he at least broke even.

        Real examples include: $GRAB, $AUR, $UBER

        [0] - https://www.cnbc.com/2020/08/28/nearly-200-uber-employees-su...

      • jaco62 hours ago
        [dead]
    • varenc2 hours ago
      Isn't this already a problem in many situations? If you exercise your options when you quit, pay only a very small strike price, but acquire private shares with a much larger fair market value, in the US at least you'd owe the IRS a lot of money but have no liquidity to pay it. Though this new tax would make that a yearly problem instead of just a problem when you exercise. (and mean that early exercise doesn't let you avoid it)
    • nimih2 hours ago
      I think in that case, you, the hypothetical wage worker, got hoodwinked pretty effectively by the beancounters when they were able to get away with compensating you in contracts that are apparently worthless to you.
      • bpodgursky2 hours ago
        Do you think about the things you say, or is it just reflex?

        Everyone working for a startup knows it may be 5 years to a liquidity event. We're all big boys, we work on uncertainty and expectation. If the government changes the rules halfway through, it's pretty brain-damaged to blame the beancounters for hoodwinking the employees, and not using their magic oracular powers to predict how the laws would change under their feet.

    • monero-xmr2 hours ago
      You need to exit the Netherlands
  • kingstnap2 hours ago
    > The capital growth tax will apply to most assets, taxing both realised and unrealised returns, including appreciation in value and income from assets like shares, cryptocurrencies, and savings. Exchange results on bank balances in currencies other than EUR will also be taxed.

    Ouch. I suppose this is supposed to combat the trend of share buybacks over dividends. Gonna seriously suck to be anyone Norwegian and having to sell stocks to pay for taxes on your unrealized gains.

    Also if the euro dives as well during inflation its gonna be painful.

    • tom_2 hours ago
      This won’t obviously apply to Norwegians, as it’s for the Netherlands.
      • stunami2 hours ago
        Ah ha, but it would for expat Norwegians living in the Netherlands ! If we're not worried about the minority Norwegian expat groups, what has the world come to.
    • tobyjsullivan2 hours ago
      Seems like it would also result in capital investors covering more year-to-year tax revenue, which could reduce some pressure on other tax payers.

      In theory, capital gains should average out over time. But in practice, I think an increasing amount of wealth is being held and not realized over many decades.

      It doesn’t help anyone that a few billion $ of gains will be taxed eventually if that is so far into the future that most citizens alive today will have passed away by then.

      • abtinf2 hours ago
        Such a policy will collapse the markets almost immediately. Everyone who would have held onto their assets will suddenly have to sell to cover taxes. This will cause a spiral of fire sales.
    • anon2912 hours ago
      The demonym of those from the Netherlands is 'Dutch'
      • kingstnap2 hours ago
        I totally misread the title as Norway, guess I was thinking about the sovereign wealth fund.
    • energy1232 hours ago
      Housing?
  • andsoitis2 hours ago
    Usually wealth taxes like this only applies to people with (net) assets in excess of a fairly large amount like 50m or 100m, etc.

    Skimming the article I couldn’t tell whether that’s the case here.

    If not, it seems like it would have pretty bad implications for the average person who isn’t super wealthy but who are trying to build wealth.

    • yunohn2 hours ago
      Sadly the threshold for wealth tax in the Netherlands has always been abysmally low - even in 2025, the untaxed “wealth” is only 50k.
    • oliv__2 hours ago
      The people voting for these laws don't want anyone to be wealthy. It's a race to the bottom
  • notepad0x902 hours ago
    Why don't governments take a portion of the stock as tax payment? They can cash it in (or not), but if all your money is in stocks, are they forcing you to sell the stock to pay them? i.e.: The tax shouldn't be in numerated in currency but stock. If it is currency, you are forced to measure a portion of the stock based on its current value and sell that much stock, if they take a fixed percent of the stock that amount could be a lot or not so much depending on the value of the stock when they tax you. The amount of tax you pay shouldn't depend on how well the stock is doing at taxation time.
  • abtinf2 hours ago
    It is difficult to imagine a more catastrophically destructive economic policy.

    If this is actually implemented, the Dutch are toast.

  • exabrial2 hours ago
    We dodged a huge bullet in the US with this. We already pay _excessive_ amounts of federal income tax for extreme inefficiency, the vast majority of it simply being funneled into the pockets of the ultra wealthy.
    • Izikiel432 hours ago
      When you say excessive amounts of federal income tax, do you mean each tax payer, or the overall amount?

      The top 10% of taxpayers contribute 72% of all income tax, so 90% of them aren't really contributing a lot, so per tax payer it's not a lot.

      The overall amount is staggering, yes.

  • bawolff2 hours ago
    So how does that work for assets with unclear value?
  • UltraSane2 hours ago
    What happens when you have a capital loss after paying taxes on the gains and then it goes back to the same value you paid taxes on? Do you still pay the tax? Or does it have to go higher than the last highest value you paid taxes on? That seems the fairest option.
    • divbzero2 hours ago
      Or, if you have a capital loss this year after paying taxes on gains last year, can you carry back the deduction to last year?
    • jmyeet2 hours ago
      This is a solved problem. When you sell a house in the US, you ahve to determine what your capital gain is for tax purposes. That includes all purchase and selling costs (eg agents fees, transfer taxes, etc). Those are all added to the purchase price to determine your cost basis.

      The capital gain is simply the sale price minus the cost basis, which might be a loss.

      So if you've paid unrealized capital gains taxes along the way, you either get credit for those taxes already paid (and possibly get a refund if you've overpaid) or they're simply added to the cost basis.

    • engineer_222 hours ago
      Maybe they will treat them similar to how they treat realized capital losses currently
    • typon2 hours ago
      ideally you should get a deduction in later years
  • LZ_Khan2 hours ago
    well this will probably cause an exit of businesses
    • ivankra2 hours ago
      Businessmen - it's for personal income taxes. I don't think it affects corporate taxes. Yet.
      • keerthiko2 hours ago
        as worded is this tax not levied on any entity holding assets that can appreciate in value (businesses can hold stock too)?
      • B1FF_PSUVM2 hours ago
        Don't IKEA have a tax-free "design foundation" over there?
  • blindriver2 hours ago
    This is extremely regressive and means that lower income people will be forced to shed their assets every year to avoid paying this unrealized gains tax. This means they will NEVER get the chance to accumulate generational wealth by holding onto stocks or other assets that have the capability of increasing tremendously like real estate.

    It means they will need to sell their assets in order to pay this tax and only rich people will be able to afford holding onto assets long enough to become very rich.

    It’s stupid, regressive and the Netherlands will learn a great lesson. The other thing that makes me laugh is that no other taxes are going down so this is a straight up tax hike on top of every other the Dutch pay.

  • andsoitisan hour ago
    Countries raise taxes on wealth when they have high levels of debt and disappointing growth.
  • SilverElfin2 hours ago
    So can you get unrealized capital losses to turn into tax credits? And can a person build up these credits to use in different years? If not, this is just a big tax increase to support continued government inefficiency instead of fixing spending and efficiency problems.
    • ekianjo2 hours ago
      No this only goes one way, of course.
  • pembrook2 hours ago
    Sometimes we have to place our hand on the stove to learn why we shouldn’t place our hand on the stove.

    There’s a bizarre silliness to implementing this compared the relative ease of just increasing capital gains taxes (accrued capital gains are already tracked and reported!) to match income. Will just be a massive jobs program for the bean counters and consultants.

    As someone living somewhat Netherlands adjacent, I will happily welcome all Dutch entrepreneurs and investors who wish to grow our local economy instead and not be forced to sell chunks of their company to the state over time.

  • jmyeet2 hours ago
    Good. IMHO unrealized gains and profit shifting are two of the biggest problems in modern taxation that need to be addressed.

    Many people will have heard about the Buy Borrow Die strategy by now. In case not, it's basically where you don't sell an asset (and thus have to pay taxes on the gain). You use it as collateral for a loan and just spend the laon while the asset continues to appreciate (hopefully) faster than the interest rate. What's particularly gross about this is that many asets in many countries can be inherited by children on what's called a stepped up basis, meaning the base value for determining any capital gains taxes resets to the current market value when the owner dies. This is a massive tax break for the wealthy.

    Companies have their own version of this. This has been somewhat (but not entirely) addressed in the US tax code now but it used to be that foreign corporate profits did not incur US corporate taxes as long as the money wasn't repatriated, meaning it stays overseas. But you know what you can do? That's right. Borrow money used those foreign profits as collateral and wait long enough for the US government to give you a tax holiday or to otherwise change the rules (which they did).

    IMHO borrowing money against an asset should be realizing a gain and borrowing against foreign profits should be repatriating those profits.

    Some will argue how you can't tax unrealized gains or it's not fair, we do it all the time. They're called property taxes.

    Profit shifting is still a big problem. This is where, for example, tech companies would sell ads and services in the UK at "cost" to their Irish subsidiary, who would make all the profits. Almost nothing in UK profits where the tax rate is higher. Transfer pricing is (generally) illegal. Profit shifting isn't. What's the difference? Yes.

    I think the EU and the US in particular need to start doing what I call profit apportionment, meaning if 50% of your revenue is booked in the US then 50% of your worldwide profits are taxable in the US.

    You might say "they'll hide profits in subsidiaries" but really this is a solved problem already. We ahve ways of dealing with subsidiaries that are at arms length or not. We also have financial reporting to stock markets and there's really no reason tax authorities couldn't use published financial statements as a basis for taxation.

    • bcardarella2 hours ago
      I agree that borrowing against unrealized gains is crap, it's lead to major economic divide. However, just make borrowing against unrealized gains illegal. Taxing unrealized gains is the wrong solution for a real problem.
    • temp24411392 hours ago
      > This is a massive tax break for the wealthy.

      Do you have a reference for this?

      Any sort of gift or inheritance transfers the cost basis as far as I know.

    • anon2912 hours ago
      Unless you get to carry over unrealized capital losses , this taxation regime is highly regressive.
      • blindriver2 hours ago
        I would prefer they give a straight up tax refund as opposed to a credit you carry over.
    • SilverElfinan hour ago
      > IMHO borrowing money against an asset should be realizing a gain and borrowing against foreign profits should be repatriating those profits.

      Why is this necessary when the spending of the borrowed money is itself taxed?

      • jmyeet24 minutes ago
        You only pay sales and consumption taxes when you spend borrowed money. You're not paying any income or capital gains taxes on it.
    • staticassertion2 hours ago
      > You use it as collateral for a loan and just spend the laon while the asset continues to appreciate (hopefully) faster than the interest rate.

      Gosh, that hopefully is doing a lot for you sentence lol. Risk based economies function on that "hopefully". To phrase this another way, "if you borrow money against an asset, invest it in the economy, and make more than the interest in returns, you can avoid selling the asset to cover the loan", which sounds a whole lot more sane. It's a bit scary to imagine a world in which borrowing against an asset could not be profitable as that would mean that all investment in the economy would halt, no?

      I'm not even against this tax fwiw but you're glossing over some major details in how that tax deferral works. The major issue is how cap gains is handled on death.

      • jmyeet22 minutes ago
        Let me quote from my own comment:

        > What's particularly gross about this is that many asets in many countries can be inherited by children on what's called a stepped up basis, meaning the base value for determining any capital gains taxes resets to the current market value when the owner dies. This is a massive tax break for the wealthy.

  • deaux2 hours ago
    (June 2025)